So people actually TRUST the government with their HEALTH?!?

reply to post by Janky Red

Thats too bad.
It really is a racket with the 'conned-sumer getting hosed every time.
Not really on topic but the banks have taken over here. (obviously)
They can charge whatever they want.
It's supposed to change (with a new law) in a year but I doubt it ever will.
They run this country and have for a long time.
Everything goes or comes through a bank at some point.......
once again the little guy gets reamed.

Of course the conned-sumers have to share some of the blame for
putting up with it!



[edit on 1-11-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Thats too bad.
It really is a racket with the 'conned-sumer getting hosed every time.
Not really on topic but the banks have taken over here. (obviously)
They can charge whatever they want.
It's supposed to change (with a new law) in a year but I doubt it ever will.
They run this country and have for a long time.
Everything goes or comes through a bank at some point.......
once again the little guy gets reamed.

Of course the conned-sumers have to share some of the blame for
putting up with it!



[edit on 1-11-2009 by dodadoom]

All I am saying is it is protect the REAL ELITES of the world ALL the TIME.
At every turn I get screwed by this, that or the other...

The gym I joined ---

I came into the gym and said I would join ONLY if it were a month to month plan!
Guy said OK fine, but you will pay more a month - I said great -
Then the guys says oh wait a minute I printed out the wrong last page in that contract.

SURE AS ICE IS COLD he screws me! Switches the contract I read over, unaware of the last clause on the new page the gave me a two year agreement, AT the inflated monthly price!
So when I called to cancel my membership this was my reward for patronage, then MY BANK WOULD NOT STOP PAYMENT and claimed they would withhold the remainder owed, on a year and a half of membership... Literally, I was going to go in there and mess people up in a not so cool way, I have never felt so violated in my whole life, no proof, no recourse, EAT it Janky Red...

This is the same entitled mentality that goes on in the insurance industry and these morons are fighting for their captors.



[edit on 1-11-2009 by Janky Red]

Hmm, unless I missed something, none of these actually say why we should trust the government. Not trusting the private sector as it is isnt actually reason to trust the fedgov, as they own the fedgov anyways, So PLEASE why should we trust the fedgov with our health????

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I see your point.
We trust them with our (retired) parents health care already though!
Its called medicare and social security.
Still has to be better than trusting in a 'for profit' system!
People are expendable, but profit is not! Apparently.
Dunno. Its all purty whacked!

Wait till we realize we trust our retirement to the stock market!!!
How nucking futts is that?

reply to post by Janky Red

Red.
I know huh! But dont go mental on the clueless stupids.

Its really all you can do to not get screwed everytime you bend over
to pick up that penny that you need to pay all the taxes that are wasted.

I can only speak to a recent experience in my own family. He'd fallen ill a couple of weeks earlier and we'd been trying to get him a doctor's appointment. We called both his private doctor and the VA hospital. With the private doctor, he'd have to wait about four days, and being a borderline emergency, we called up the government run VA to try to get him in quicker. The waiting time? About a month.

Well, needless to say, he didn't go to the VA. He ended up going to the ER at, yes, a private hospital, where he was rather quickly diagnosed with cancer and treatment begun. If we'd waited on the VA, we still wouldn't know.

I'd been against the government run health care plan earlier, but now, I'm without a doubt adamantly opposed.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by vor78]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


No, i don't trust the government, but i also don't trust greedy billionaires with it either.

And since those are my only two choices, i'll go with whichever one costs *ME* less.

Public Option Please.

Anything else is just pointless pandering to keep other people rich.

Originally posted by Seiko
Have you ever heard of anyone in canada ever being denied medical care?

We're eventually gonna have to draw a line somewhere. I mean, it is a little rediculous to, for example, spend tens or even hundreds of thousands of dallars keeping the really old alive so they can just sit and waste away another do-nothing day in their life waiting for death.

What happens when medical technology gets to the point where we can keep people alive until they are over 100, but of course it will start cost $100,000 a years to do so from the time they become 70 and beyond?

Medical science can cure and fix so many things, but there does come a point where throwing good money after bad will bankrupt the whole health care shebang if there isn't some kind of cap put on this stuff.

There needs to be some kind of lifetime limit for health care, and a cutoff age too so that we don't end up spending ridiculous amounts of money trying to keep alive when they are suppose to die now.

I do not like getting involve in anything where ALL the facts aren't known. Without limits, there will be no telling how much all this will cost.

Your title is totally deceiving.

We wouldn't be trusting the government with our health.
We would be trusting the government with the COST of our health care.

Big difference, but nice try.

The doctors, nurses and hospitals will still be dealing with our health.

The cost of our veterans health care is in the governments hands.
The cost of the elderly's health care is in the government's hands.
The cost of our representatives' health care is in the governments hands.
The cost of many countries' citizens' health care is in their governments hands (like Canada) and most people LOVE it.

Right now, the cost of our health care is in the corporations' hands... I guess it all depends on whom you trust more: the government or the corporations... I'm willing to give the government a chance as I KNOW how much the corporations care about me.

It seems no one answered your questions on what the government has done for people to trust on it. I am going to play devil's advocate and show a link to a small list of things the government did that benefited us (the people). I know this is heresy in a conspiracy website but even a country that has so much corruption like this one should get credit when it is deserved:

"A dear friend of mine left a challenge in a comment. Here ’tis:

Other than the military, can you name 10 things that the government has done really well, better than the private sector?

It’s an important question, for skepticism toward all government (rather than reform of bad government) is not only common, but at the root of a couple of major political outlooks. And because it’s important, it seemed worth a post of its own.

Here’s my quick response. Maybe you can do better:

You betcha. Off the top of my head, I’ll give you twenty, most of which are under-funded for the work they do:

1. The FAA. Crashes are a rarity here, thanks to equipment safety tests and massively successful air flight controlling.
2. Medicaid: private sector insurance companies make money by ditching their customers when they get very sick. Medicaid picks up the castoffs.
3. Social Security: What if Mr. Bush had succeeded in privatizing SS before the markets crashed? Can you imagine how many old people would be working at WalMart, since their SS would have been cut in half? And did you know that before SS, thousands of older Americans simply starved to death?
4. SCHIP: Healthcare insurance for children who would not otherwise have it – enormously preventive of school absence, long-term illness, loss of physical and mental development"

continued at link:
masbury.wordpress.com...

anyway, among other things, we are more secure from crime than in other countries; yes it is true that crime rate is high in the U.S., but at least we don't have to worry about genocides, daily explosions in malls and buildings, and a war breaking out in american soil anytime soon.

Second, we can speak ill of the government daily if we want, we can call ourselves communists, socialists, even fascists if we want, even if the majority of people will look at us with contempt. We can even start protests and let our voice be heard (if this actually works is a whole other issue). In other countries saying whatever you like can cost you your life.

Next, even if there is an increase in unemployment and homelessness, we are never really short of food. There is always enough to eat, even if we have no place to live, we can at least be sure to find some place that offers something to eat for free or at a low prize. This is most likely as a result of the U.S. being the highest producer of food in the world (which explains why the world views America as fat).

Last point I will make, we in the U.S. live relatively well compared to other countries. Unfortunately this comes at the expense of third-world countries, which are constantly raped for their natural resources (think of oil, companies that go to other nations for cheap labor, etc.)

Does this means I trust the government? NO. I never trust any government, for I view the good and bad done by a country. However, due to the reasons above, it really makes one understand why so many people apparently trust the government- they prefer higher security than extreme freedom. We still have some degree of freedom, but some of our liberties have been limited and restricted as a trade-off for higher security (whether this extra sense of security is a result of the government actually caring for the populace or just a way for the government to keep the populace appeased to gain more control is a whole other completely different issue).

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Well I remind you they do have nukes and we are not all crispy growing extra parts yet.
They also regulate the airline industry and FLIGHT heavily which is now very safe, but can be backed up...

Point is something is better than nothing- when I am uninsured I have to buy my anti biotics at a fish store, their is not much dignity in that and it can kill me.

I am 17, and in Canada, also known as the example of the horrible path the US is about to take in healthcare. Personally, this is just a scheme to get everyone on meds for free to create more illnesses and what not, this is what our health care system does in the west, makes people sick, to create symptom-treating medicine, and to keep them on it. it dumbs us down, and it kills us.


GOVERNMENT healthcare only makes it free, so its your choice, pay for death care, or free death care.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


What you dont trust the Fire Dept.?

Sorry but private industry is not always the best approach. We have private ambulance services and they are a horror story compared to the government run services like your fire dept.

Dont listen to the spin doctors please, there are think tanks that are paid by private industry that shape your opinion.

What I dont get is that Im on a conspiracy website that most people here im sure would agree think that the US gov is corrupt as hell. Im willing to bet that even a lot of the people that are for health care have made posts that have been a complaint to our government's way of doing things. What I dont understand is that if you cant trust the government on some issues here and there (911, roswell, BIG industry running the world, etc), then why on Earth are you so willing to just hand over the control of your health to them? This really dumbfounds me to be honest. Im willing to bet that the majority of the people here have at least a small distrust in the government, but yet they are willing to fork over their lives to them? What happened to haveing "only my balls and my word"?

Its ok to distrust the gov or some NWO in some way that you try and justify but yet you are perfectly happy with giving said bad government control over whether you live or die? All the socialist, obama isnt eligible, NWO is out to control the world type arguements aside...how can someone that distrusts another give the person that they disturst complete control over their health and livelyhood? This is really confusing to me and ive posted this question in another thread or two to no avail. OP, good luck getting an answer other than, "But (insert random country with a somewhat socialists economy and health care system name)'s health care system works just fine for them and it will work just fine here as well." We, the US, are not that other country. If we were, it might work and it might not. But, since we are not like that country in almost any way, it is irrelivent.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Your title is totally deceiving.

We wouldn't be trusting the government with our health.

We would be trusting the government with the COST of our health care.

Big difference, but nice try.

The doctors, nurses and hospitals will still be dealing with our health.

The cost of our veterans health care is in the governments hands.
The cost of the elderly's health care is in the government's hands.
The cost of our representatives' health care is in the governments hands.
The cost of many countries' citizens' health care is in their governments hands (like Canada) and most people LOVE it.

Right now, the cost of our health care is in the corporations' hands... I guess it all depends on whom you trust more: the government or the corporations... I'm willing to give the government a chance as I KNOW how much the corporations care about me.

When the gov has control over our costs of health care, they also have control of what they are going to pay or not...ie, rationing of health care.

Our vet's care sucks. Our elderly's care sucks. Our rep's care is awesome (gee, i wonder why). We are not canada/denmark/ireland/britain etc. We are the US. We the people are different then the people in the other countries.

I say we give the government a chance to help as well, just not the way of a public option, but haveing the government get out of the way for a while. The insurance companies have been highly regulated since their inception. Why not take the government out of the equation first and see what happens. If it doesnt work, we can always insert a public option can we not? Why just jump to the conclusion of it not working?

If you are basing how the US would run nationalized health care by looking at the VA system, we are in big trouble. I am a disabled veteran and have to rely on the VA for my health care because it's what I can afford. It's horrible health care based within an antiquated system. Two quick examples:

1) I was told by the VA to go to our local emergency room in the event of an emergency rather than drive 90 miles to their facility. I was bit by a spider, had an allergic reaction, stopped breathing, and was transported by ambulance to the local ER. As soon as I was coherent - within hours - I let the hospital know to contact VA. They did. VA denied my claim and I had to pay out of my own pocket - thousands! They sent me a form letter stating it was because of "one of the following reasons" and listed several reasons. I called VA and asked for what specific reason I was denied, but no one knew the answer. It was obvious no one really cared either.

2) I was advised by the VA to have a procedure done. I contacted the appropriate VA clinic six times but never received a call back. I contacted the VA patient liason, but never received a reply back. I contacted my Congressman, but never received a call back. I picked up the phone and started calling numbers at the VA and was finally told, "Yes, we're having problems with that department." Sixty days later, I still have not made an appointment for what I was told was a critical test.

I won't bore you with years of incompetent care. These are two recent examples that come to mind. The facility is the VA Hospital in Iowa City, IA. The Iowa congressman I'm still waiting for a call from is David Loebsack.

The VA health system is broke beyond repair. They need to close the VA hospitals and clinics and allow veterans to be treated at their local hospitals. We'd get better service and the taxpayers would save money.

Bottom Line: The government should not be in the health care business!

The wait here in Canada I've noticed are very long and you do pay for healthcare via the high tax rate and the additional $145 every three months.

When I lived in the US, you got in right away rather than have to wait a long time.

In a way its more expensive here depending on the situation. In the States if (which is tougher these days) you have a decent job, health care is essentially cheaper than here with far less waits. Canada does handle it pretty good considering it being socialistic though.

Let me turn your question around. What makes you trust corporations with your health care?

Our highway system, the police, fire departments, faa, cdc, homeland security all seem to do a pretty decent job. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Could some of these organizations be more efficient if they were privatized? Probably, but if my wallet burns up in a fire, is the fire department corporation going to refuse to put the fire out? Is the private security company going to refuse to stop a crime because the victim couldn't afford the service? Am I going to be stuck because I can't afford the privatized highway system?

I don't trust the government, but I really don't trust profit maximizing corporations.

Originally posted by The Transhumanist
Let me turn your question around. What makes you trust corporations with your health care?

Our highway system, the police, fire departments, faa, cdc, homeland security all seem to do a pretty decent job. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Could some of these organizations be more efficient if they were privatized? Probably, but ....(truncated)

that has got to be the greatest explanations i've seen to date.
Because as ridiculous as it may sound on the surface, if you dig into a little bit, you can see that it really is true.

Hospitals are mandated by federal law that they're not allowed to turn away any patients who are in need of life saving care.

Why does that law exist? Because somewhere in our past, we had Hospitals turning away dying people who simply couldn't afford narcissistic over priced doctors.

How can any human being with any single feeling in their body think that this is okay?

It's disgusting.

reply to post by Snarf


Yes, it is sick that this has happened before. But, their is a downside to everything. According to wiki, 55% of the care that is provided goes unpaid.

en.wikipedia.org...

What happens when a company, hospital or not, cannot collect on 55% of the work that it performs? It shifts the cost onto those who can pay. So, essentially, we are allready paying for the people who dont have health insurance so nobody that is for health insurance can really complain about the fact that their bills when they go to the hospital are high. If we institute a public option, the cost is not going to go away, it will just be shifted to us in the form of taxes. Instead of paying a higher amount when you get a procedure done, you now just make less money. So how is this really reform? Its really just passing the buck to be honest.

Also, when companies cannont collect on 55% of what is owed, the majority of the time they must close unless they have private funding. What happens when hospitals close class? Their then is a shortage of hospitals and therefore a rationing of care. What happens when the nearest hospital to you is 25 miles away instead of it being a couple blocks away like it used to be and you are in transport due to a heart attack? Most of the time you die. Again, how is this reform?

I would trust companies more than I trust politicians. At least companies have a back bone, politicians are more than willing to sell you down the river if it will get them an extra fundraiser or two in their back pocket.