Brave student defies the Supreme Leader of Iran

The problem with the logic of "live to fight another day" is, if you didn't make a stand today, what makes you think you'll be any braver tomorrow? I'm not saying you should always make a stand and potentially be killed. Sometimes it's necessary to avoid a fight when you're at a serious disadvantage, surrounded and outnumbered and so on. Still, at some point it often does become necessary to stop running, speak out, fight back, and take the chances.

I am thinking that this student is likely to face criminal charges, possibly even a death sentence. The reason the regime has to use violence is that it doesn't really represent the will of the majority of the Iranian people. They can't afford to let protester give others any ideas.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by budski
These people hate being criticised?

How quickly we forget.

"Don't taze me Bro!"

Look it up, then get sanctimonious.

Talk about hypocrisy and double standards

So you support and approve of the Iranian leadership and the way they treat their people? You must? Why?

And just where did I say that?

erm, Nowhere...

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

So it's the anniversary of when the Iran terrorists kidnapped Americans and tortured them for months.

Perhaps soon, they will get their payback.

I'm glad you brought that up

Perhaps you can explain what gave western countries the right to take over these countries, back in the 1920's along with the Balfour declaration.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.mfa.gov.il...
www.mideastweb.org...


In their eyes??? OIL

and the destabalisation of a resource.


Perhaps soon the Iranian people will get their own back for the puppet government the US and UK foisted upon them in 1953, when they overthrew the democratic government in pursuit of oil, and installed the shah regime, including the SAVAK torture cabal which was CIA trained.
www.mohammadmossadegh.com...


Perhaps you can explain why the US handed Iran a nuclear power programme in the 60's.

Perhaps you can explain why the US fell out with Iran after arming Saddam Hussein to try and combat them?

Perhaps you can explain why the US fell out with Iraq after arming the Ayatotollah to try and combat them?

Perhaps you can explain why the only reason a country did not matter to you, was because it had no purpose - so stop with that government/msm bull.

After all that history, people wonder why Iran is pissed off with America.

Go figure.

Sorry - for conversation purposes, that's a generic "you"


[edit on 31/10/2009 by budski]

reply to post by budski

After all that history, people wonder why Iran is pissed off with America.

That's not why they brutally rape, torture and murder innocent Iranian students (both men and women).

This student was very brave, and if he dies, he dies a martyr for the green revolution. Because of that, the regime now seem to be less willing to use such brutality. The final days of this regime will see the few remaining loyal revolutionary guards shooting protestors on sight. It will eventually lead to that day whether the regime are ready for it. The regime may prolong their existence for a little while longer by holding back, but their days are numbered, and their fate is inevitable.

The students who stand up against this regime, along with their fellow countrymen on 4th November, are all extremely brave people.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by budski

 

After all that history, people wonder why Iran is pissed off with America.

That's not why they brutally rape, torture and murder innocent Iranian students (both men and women).

I suppose you have proof of this?

Do you also have proof that other countries do different?

Remember SAVAK?

Let's face it - we started it.

And if we have to reap as we have sown, then that's just payback.

After all, you are advocating revenge, so why shouldn't they advocate the same?

[edit on 31/10/2009 by budski]

reply to post by budski

I suppose you have proof of this?

Unless you're claiming all of the imprisoned protestors are western spies, then you should agree with what I said.

Where's the evidence of the protestors being western spies? Surely the regime would give it to their friend - Mr El Baredei?

Since 2-3 million were out on the streets on several occasions according to the regime's own figures, then unless we have 3 million spies, I don't really see the point of your line of argument! Even if there are some spies, the majority aren't spies.

Let's face it - we started it.

And if we have to reap as we have sown, then that's just payback.

After all, you are advocating revenge, so why shouldn't they advocate the same?

Revenge is not what I call it, I would call it people liberating themselves.

The ordinary Iranian student just wants to be able to live a free and happy life. They aren't to blame for 1950's CIA involvement, in fact they weren't even born decades after that era. Yet these children of the Islamic revolution, are now the central core of the green revolution. Ironic isn't it.

The regime may claim each of the many thousand imprisoned students, embassy staff worker to be spies from Israel, UK, USA, Saudi Arabia, Italy and whatever country they choose to blame on that particular day. But it's all absurd really! And even more absurd if anyone thinks it's justifiable for the regime to use their hatred of these countries against Iranian's who are speaking out against their oppressors!

If you want to advocate the rape, torture and murder of many innocent 16-24 year olds, then perhaps you should also advocate what you call "revenge" against the current generation of youngsters in many other countries, whose previous generations and their allies were responsible for illegal actions.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by john124]

Take note ladies and gentlemen.

This is exactly what we are headed for.

The government favor for all the news organizations except the one that criticizes them (fox).

Open season on Fox, not allowing them to be a part of certain gatherings.

The silencing and slandering of anyone who openly criticizes the government and its officials has officially been kicked into over drive.

Keep vigilant people, you can only keep your head in the sand for so long.

Flame away!

reply to post by john124


You can dress it up anyway you want to - the fact remains that we messed with them rather than vice versa.

Tell me... If someone did that to your country, do you think you might have something to say about it?

reply to post by budski


Your last post is all irrelevant to what I've said.

I'm not arguing for or against any kind of involvement now by western powers.

I didn't say they shouldn't be angry either. I said their actions against the Iranian people by the regime are unjustifiable.

This student knows the Khamenei will be crapping himself on 4th November, and maybe it will finish him off or put him into another coma.

This time there could be 5 million on the streets protesting, or it could be more. Either way, it's a big step towards the total collapse of this despicable regime.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by john124]

reply to post by AshleyD

No hard feelings- it just disappoints me and it feels like people who point the other finger and bring up another incident instead of dealing with the current situation are saying what happened to this Iranian doesn't deserve our attention because there are bad guys elsewhere, too.

No you need to give more attention to your own back yard, that is what he stated, don't twist his words.

People come to this thread and state how bad Iran is without any comparison, you can't look at a situation isolated. So if you are going to judge Iran, don't hesitate to put your own nation's policies side by side so that it is fair.

When you isolate the situation it makes look as if Iran is the only country with such policies. Hey if I was in America and spew the Islamic side of the story in front of TV, I wouldn't be surprised if the the FBI came and drag me away and arrest me for at least 40 days under the anti-terror law, and probably torture me and then free me, telling me I have done nothing wrong. They already did that to more than 5000 American citizens.

They feel the same way America is feeling right now, for example in America if someone spew Islamic propaganda then they are in trouble, in Iran if someone spews Western propaganda then they are in trouble.

So once again, don't look at the situation isolated, because that is when you fall in to the trap, remember the axis of EVIL ?

reply to post by oozyism

in Iran if someone spews Western propaganda then they are in trouble.

Hey if I was in America and spew the Islamic side of the story in front of TV, I wouldn't be surprised if the the FBI came and drag me away

Criticising the supreme leader is not western propaganda.

Read the source and see exactly what the student said. That form of criticism happens all of the time in the west. The student did not threaten christian holy war. If you disagree with the US policy towards Muslims who have being accused of acquiring terrorist manuals and terrorist equipment, then that's your opinion and that's allowed in the west. Although whilst I may disagree strongly with your assertion, I am not going to condone that you be arrested and locked up for questionning the govts. actions. That's the freedom of speech here, which there isn't in Iran.

People come to this thread and state how bad Iran is without any comparison

There's nothing wrong with making comparisons, but they should be accurate, and not be used in way to justify or deflect any action by the Iranian regime because someone else did something which the minority are confusingly claiming is just as bad. Since when does questionning the supreme leader ever become the equivalent of declaring holy war?!

The House of Commons has regular criticism of the British PM. The media in Britain discuss reducing the number of MP's and lessening expenses that they can claim. We don't have secret police to quieten these dissenters!

The revolutionary guards surrounded this student as soon as he finished speaking. The regime needs to oppress people and arrest them to deter them from speaking out against the regime, and to keep them in fear. Yet they know if they arrest students in mass again, that they are only going to incite more protests. The regime cannot win, either way they lose!

[edit on 31-10-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by oozyism

 

Criticising the supreme leader is not western propaganda.

During the meeting this daring student managed to grill Khamenei on a number of issues including the state-run TV’s one-sided performance during and after the elections. State-run Television is under the supervision of the leader. He also touched on the issue of the freedom of speech and the banning of newspapers and the atmosphere of fear that was dominant in the country, while calling on the need for open criticism of the leader himself.

That is Western Propaganda, keep reading it until you understand.

And funnily this:

According to unconfirmed reports, this Sharif University student was faced with security forces after the meeting was over.

Read the source and see exactly what the student said. That form of criticism happens all of the time in the west. The student did not threaten christian holy war. If you disagree with the US policy towards Muslims who have being accused of acquiring terrorist manuals and terrorist equipment, then that's your opinion and that's allowed in the west. Although whilst I may disagree strongly with your assertion, I am not going to condone that you be arrested and locked up for questionning the govts. actions. That's the freedom of speech here, which there isn't in Iran.

No an Islamic form of criticism doesn't happen in the West. And no not terrorist manuals and terrorist equipments, if they had those they wouldn't be released at the end saying they did nothing wrong. Do you really think they would be released if they had terrorist equipment and manuals lolxx. If you had those, you would be taken by the CIA, forget about the FBI. You will be taken to a disclosed area in the middle east and tortured.

There's nothing wrong with making comparisons, but they should be accurate, and not be used in way to justify or deflect any action by the Iranian regime because someone else did something which the minority are claiming is just as bad.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by john124]

Accurate? OK you give me an accurate comparison between the current incident in Iran and a similar incident in the US.


[edit on 31-10-2009 by oozyism]

reply to post by oozyism

That is Western Propaganda, keep reading it until you understand.

No it's not! It's values that we in the west uphold, but that doesn't make it propaganda just because somebody else in another country wants more freedom. Have you ever wondered why these students want a fairer society - perhaps to make a better life for themselves! It's not always a conspiracy. In oppressive societies, it's inevitable that younger generations will eventually turn against their oppressors.

No an Islamic form of criticism doesn't happen in the West.

In the west we have all kinds of criticism towards leaders. Obama has being called a nazi and a racist by the media. PM Brown is insulted almost every day in the media. It doesn't have to be in islamic form for my point to be true and accurate. This is not about one or the other, it's much more complicated than that.

The oppressive attributes that the student spoke of are accurate and that exists in Iran. So it's not a lie or propaganda for him to state that. And for him to ask for more freedoms, or even wish to debate it, cannot and never will be defined as propaganda.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by john124]

reply to post by oozyism


Have you heard of george galloway, and his ramblings against the west and Israel? This is a British man using islamic propaganda to criticise, and he's an MP in Britain! Living in a free society with free speech allows this. There's the example you asked for of what you see as an equivalent comparison! Not that it's needed for my original point to be true, but there's your example anyway.

Oh, and another example is when the dutch MP Wilders entered the UK a short while back, Muslims were using their freedom of speech to protest against him, and to also say that sharia laws should be instated in Holland. Ironic how they use their freedom of speech, which they may not have in a sharia law country, to state they want sharia laws.

These are similar situations, yet in the west we treat these people differently because they have human rights and freedom of speech to protest.

Here's the link: www.dailymail.co.uk...

(look at the angry people who are "allowed" to protest in the west.)
Compare that with the incident in iran with the student who dared to open his mouth and criticise Khamenei. Hmmmmm!

There's lots of youtube videos on Galloway, if you're interested you can search for the muppet yourself because I can't stand to hear his voice if I load up a video, because he talks out of his a*se!

[edit on 31-10-2009 by john124]

reply to post by budski


Thank you Budski - you are a legend I whole heartedly agree with you on all points.

The problem is the total brainwashing of the US people - they are not ready to open their eyes yet.

It always amuses me when I hear some say they are 'awake' or some such - then turn and bash Iran or follow whatever other opinion they have been fed by their MSM.

There is a huge gap in the American psyche filled purely with propaganda from the MSM - it would take years to break the programming.

Anyhow - for the OP - sure this young guy is good to say what he feels about his government, but his issues are insignificant to those of the western world.

In fact - it is the US, UK and western world where freedom is at its lowest ebb.

There is no worse slavery, than when the enslaved believe they are free.

The western world is totally enslaved - and it is enslavement of the mind - when are they REALLY going to wake up, and realize the enemy is within their own country, not in some foreign land?

EDIT: Is there any video of this? I couldn't find any. I assume that there is video, because it was supposedly on TV. If there isn't, then it casts the whole thing into doubt.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Amagnon]

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by oozyism

 

No it's not! It's values that we in the west uphold, but that doesn't make it propaganda just because somebody else in another country wants more freedom. Have you ever wondered why these students want a fairer society - perhaps to make a better life for themselves! It's not always a conspiracy. In oppressive societies, it's inevitable that younger generations will eventually turn against their oppressors.

See that is where our differences come to light, you think your values are universal, it is not. Free speech is not universal, there are millions of people who disagree with such a notion, so yes once again it is a Western propaganda. Not everyone agrees to what extend a society should be free.

In the west we have all kinds of criticism towards leaders. Obama has being called a nazi and a racist by the media. PM Brown is insulted almost every day in the media. It doesn't have to be in islamic form for my point to be true and accurate. This is not about one or the other, it's much more complicated than that.

He wasn't arrested for criticizing the Ayatollah, that has already been established.

The oppressive attributes that the student spoke of are accurate and that exists in Iran. So it's not a lie or propaganda for him to state that. And for him to ask for more freedoms, or even wish to debate it, cannot and never will be defined as propaganda.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by john124]

Let's discuss the oppressive attributes of Iran so that we don't make up stuff and look at in depth. Care to mention some of their oppressive attributes, before that don't hesitate to tell us what oppressive means in your dictionary.

Important topic let's discuss it.

reply to post by oozyism

Free speech is not universal

I didn't claim that it should be universal! The student wishes to discuss issues freely that the dictators refuse to allow freely without intimidation by the revolutionary guards. The student(s) wants this, not me, not westerners, so it's not western propaganda. It's irrelevant if some of these students learn about these freedoms from the west. How would you react, would you desire to live with that oppression when you know life can be better?

Not everyone agrees to what extend a society should be free.

Irrelevant to the points I've made, as these students are making their own decisions based on their own views of a free society. But just to add that certain values are common between decent human beings, when the brainwashing parts of religion no longer blinds them.

If someone told you a particular sport or music you've never heard before was great, and you listened to it yourself, or went to see the sport. If you enjoyed it, would you say it's because of the propaganda that told you it's great, or would you like it because it's your taste of music/sport! How would you react if somebody told you that you must only like that music/sport etc because your friends like it, and that their influence overpowers your own likes and dislikes? I think miffed is the word that would describe how you'd feel, and it's the same with iranians - they aren't protesting and speaking out for you or for the west.... they're doing it for themselves! Stop taking the credit away from these brave people.

These students in Iran haven't decided they want more freedoms because we have told them it's fun to live life in a fairer society, it's because they desire it themselves! They've probably lived their entire life with this regime, and the stolen election was the final straw that sparked protests. It's not like they only hear of democracy from the west, Ahmadinejad claims his elections were democratic and were the freest and fairest elections in the world. The regime lies about its own standards that it sets and doesn't meet, and so Iranian's are going to be upset as they react to that! It isn't rocket science, it's a fairly simple concept.

He wasn't arrested for criticizing the Ayatollah, that has already been established.

No, but people have been arrested for openly criticising him before. I've already stated exactly why arresting this student would be bad for the regime anyway, so I wouldn't expect the regime to "push their luck". It speaks for itself really when the revolutionary guards surrounded him afterwards. They are sh*t scared trying to decide what to do - arrest him and cause a huge fuss, or let it go and look weak.

Note how security forces grabbed the kid as he left the meeting. The people will soon know the name of its latest great hero. There were simply too many witnesses to keep the lid on.

So for you, it's fine for them to just rough him up a bit instead of arresting him because there were probably too many other students there to batter him with a club this time!?

Let's discuss the oppressive attributes of Iran so that we don't make up stuff and look at in depth. Care to mention some of their oppressive attributes,

This is all common knowledge - raping of men and women whilst in prison, aka seeding the youngsters to ensure they go to a nasty afterlife shortly afterwards.

For 3 decades this regime has murdered its opponents, stoned women who have been raped, imprisoned and hanged those in public who dared to challenge them.

before that don't hesitate to tell us what oppressive means in your dictionary.

I haven't got time for silly games. You claim you want to discuss relevant issues, but really all you're doing is wrongly associating blame on westerners, just because some young Iranian's like a lot about western life - although not everything.

Another point - Iran had a fairly westernised culture in the 1970's, with a much much better economy, and the students will aspire to that as much as they look at the west now for a prosperous future.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by budski
who are the first to cite Iraniam

Iranium, Uranium, We all Ranium together...

I think you've taken a pretty extreme rose coloured view of Iran. There is a hell of a lot of 'barbaric' behaviour that exists in that place, whether you like it or not, and I personally will cast my gaze more sternly towards these places despite being opposed from within by folk such as yourself.

Sure, we all have problems within area of government, that every day we see them encroaching more and more on our basic rights as both human beings and citizens of the countries we live in.

But when the US and other countries where people live in relative social and political freedom start hanging homosexuals in the streets, stoning both men and women in pits for adultery, beheading criminals in stadiums to the cheers of crowds, hanging CHILDREN without conviction, murdering protesters in streets without any interaction, torturing political activist or journalists in custody, all the while waving a big bloody nuclear stick at anyone who dare say boo, then I will only continue to be sickened by the every day occurrences that already happen in OUR backyards as I already do.

But no amount of wedging a politically correct lump of wood in the cracked open doorway to Iran will stop people peeking and going "Not looking too good in there.."



(edit formatting and typos)

[edit on 1/11/2009 by Ha`la`tha]

[edit on 1/11/2009 by Ha`la`tha]