Eating Animals is Making us Sick

Originally posted by Legion2112
If eating beef or chicken is bad, then why do vegetarians eat meatless products that are shaped and seasoned to look and taste like hamburgers and chicken patties? Just curious...

Because food manufacturers make them, and because the meat-eating public at large make unpleasant comments about what Vegetarians and Vegans eat, so veggie replicas are eaten.

You don't have to eat them though, as the variety of vegetarian and vegan food is vast, without replicating carnivorous food.

reply to post by Wallachian


Yet no exception is taken when the proverbial shoes is on the other foot. What is goose is good for the gander after all.

Originally posted by Lavey2
one thing I cant stand is the vegan and vegetarian right wing movement, which is basically whats happening here.

No it isn't, we are trying to have a discussion.

disinformation regarding a vegetarian diet puts peoples health at risk, if you look at medical history more people have been seriously effected by going vegan there is an average of a shortened lifespan ranging from 5-20 years.

People on vegetarian diets, and who have been on them since birth tend to live longer than the rest of the population.

Vegetarians need to take vitamin pills..... my sister is a vegetarian she has anemia and low iron problems wont listen to the doctor wont take her vitamins and has the working IQ of that of an ant.

Vegetarians and particularly Vegans have to be careful about vitamin B12, which is available in Margarine and fortified breakfast cereals; and Omega 3, 6 and 9 should also be taken into account. Anyone thinking of becoming veggie should consult a qualified Nutritionalist, so they know what to look out for.

Veggies can also take vitamin supplements, just like a lot of health conscious meat eaters do.

I suggest if anyone thinks of going on such a diet, speak to your doctor about the health implications first, a dietitian and the health risks regarding soy products and such.

Very good advice; but a Nutritionalist is better than a dietician. As far as Soy products are concerned, the Japanese eat vast amounts of Tofu and other soy products, with no adverse effects. In fact, post menopausal Japanese women don't have the adverse symptoms like hot flushes, brittle bones, etc., that Western women do.

There are however, questions about the quality of soybeans grown in the USA, as they are mainly genetically modified, and having the newspaper headline title of 'Frankenstein Foods', according to the UK's Daily Mail newspaper.

I guarantee you that there is no such thing as a safe vegetarian diet for a human being and that if you were to be on such a diet you would need to supplement it with pills, now how F#CKING natural is that?!?!

NOT AT ALL.

I guarantee you that there is a healthy vegetarian diet; and a vegan one.

There are many millions of healthy vegetarians on the Indian sub-continent for example, where their diet is as natural to them as a Steak is to an American.

In fact vitamins have been proven to do more harm than good in some cases with high amounts of selenium in them causing nails and hair to fall out.

Well there maybe cases of people overdosing on them, and possibly adverse reactions in a minority of cases; or even some manufacturers getting the product wrong, but many millions of people worldwide supplement their diets on a daily basis with only beneficial effects.

The greatest majority of those will be people who eat meat, as veggies are in the minority as a percentage of the population. Also, a Nutritionalist will look at your diet carefully and will often suggest vitamin or mineral supplements where there is a deficiency, where a particular food is unavailable or disliked.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WIH YOU PEOPLE

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU

Look at the hard scientific data speak to your doctor and a dietitian, and they will tell you the same thing.

Consult a registered Nutritionalist instead and they will tell you the unbiased truth; whatever it turns out to be.

DO NOT push ideals saying that its 'natural' and we were supposed to only eat green leaves as that is complete rubbish and any archeologist will tell you the same thing from digging up bones from 50,000 years ago.

Our ancestors hunted animals and ate them, and before that our ape predesessor ate meat and hunted in packs.

This is science and history proving that we have and always will be omnivores.

Man as a Hunter/Gatherer, has eaten exactly what he could find; insects, grubs, marine life, nuts, berries, fruits, animals, roots, etc. The healthiest diet on the planet is the 'Mediterranean Diet' which includes fruit vegetables, nuts, cereals, seeds, olive oil, fish, poultry, and red meat in moderation.

There are however people who are allergic to animal ingredients, myself included; some of them from birth. Some folk just don't like the blood and gore associated with animal products, so they choose to go without them.

Providing you get the right advice from a professional source, you can live successfully on a Vegetarian or Vegan diet for your lifetime. When you're a baby though, Mom's milk is best, as it helps build a strong immune system.

Also remember, that there are plenty of people in the world who want to make a fast buck, and rear and grow adulterated and poor quality food. Check out what you are eating, whether you eat meat or not.

If you want to go on a vegan diet or be a vegetarian I suggest you speak to your doctor and a medical specialist, not a herbalist, not some spiritual guru, not a preist and not your best friend.

Sound advice; but make sure you see a Nutritionalist if you have any diet related issues, whether you eat meat or not.

I have no particular agenda here, only to answer some of your points, and whatever anybody eats is no business of mine. Eat what you want; I do. But, be aware of the consequences; and have an enjoyable time eating whatever highly nutritious food you decide to choose..


[edit on 29/10/2009 by Tallsorts]

Well I hate to break it to you but margarine is boiled down animal scraps from the abotior that would account for the b12

Originally posted by Rawhemp
My solution to the problem? Plant mass amount of date trees, they contain every macronutrient and micronutrient in almost perfect proportions and they are the most calorie dense foodstuffs on earth!!!!

Yeah but dates are just plum awful tasting!!

There are many seeds and grains we can eat, fungii and many other plentiful things we can maintain a very healthy diet with.

The problem is taste.

Im thinking right now about cooking up some jasmine rice with tumeric and some random vegies (diced celery, shredded cabbage) and a nice big dosh of sweet chilli sauce. part from the sauce, all is well. BUT I also have about 100g of steak I marinated in mushroom soy sauce, aswell as a dash of fish sauce for salt and an extra zing.

I would still really enjoy the meal sans meat products, BUT I simply love the damn taste.

Sure, I've had some absolutely smashing vegetarian meals that for all intent and purpose you would never even realise were without meat or meat products until it was pointed out, but sadly Im too easily sold on buying that steak and making 2 or 3 meals of it.

Now, my solution - gardens, knowledge and if meat must be consumed then it is YOUR job to slaughter the meat understanding the process of taking a life just for taste.

If - and I've said this for years, almost decades now - people had to slaughter their own cow or pig, there would be a lot less requirement for those animals as food.

Please, don't cue the survivalists who know how to trap, kill and cook an entire buffalo with just a sinker and a slingshot - thats what Im talking about. MOst people, the average joe, is not used to the process. Those of you who can, I applaud you. I would find it hard because I've never killed anything more than a fish, and even that gave me bad feelings as its body tensed while I cut it's head off.

Joe and Jane microwave would never be able to do it, and probably get Jack and Jill Bowieknife to do it for them. In a way thats similar to how mass production of the meat industry started.

Man work on farm, no time for edumacation. Man think - Ahha. Man get edumacation and pay next Man to kill pig and then give next Man money from job gained from edumacation in return.

Next Man suddenly sees $$$ and off he goes.

Man then forgets about the entire process, relies far too much on Shopping center reared cattle (Packets of sirloin) and buys more than they ever would have consumed on the farm.

What a sad corrupt and unforgiving world we've made. Problem is, we're so damned dependent on it.

I see this thread has ultimately been driven into the "EAT MEATS FOR THE LORDS SAKE, IT'S YOUR HEALTH I CARE ABOOT!!"

ugh, every time...

This thread just proves the majority of people on ats are completely ignorant and severely brainwashed...

Plants do contain all the essential amino acids in adequate quantities to meet human needs, and even those of children (Millward). Vitamin D is not found in milk or meat, unless it is added during manufacturing. Sunlight is the proper source of this vitamin. Plants manufacture beta-carotene, the precursor of vitamin A. The original source of all minerals (including calcium and zinc) is the ground. Plants are abundant in minerals; and they act as the conduit of minerals to animals. The scientific truth is protein, essential amino acid, mineral, and vitamin (except for B12 which is synthesized by bacteria, not animals) deficiencies are never caused by a diet based on whole plant foods when calorie needs are met. Ms. Planck's distortion of nutritional science is a serious matter that needs to be fixed. Reference: Millward DJ. The nutritional value of plant-based diets in relation to human amino acid and protein requirements. Proc Nutr Soc. 1999 May;58(2):249-60.

www.mombu.com...

hygienehealth.mydietblogger.com...

chestofbooks.com...

michaelbluejay.com...

Now lets see the evidence to back up some of the claims in this thread, mainly that vegans/vegetarians shorten there life's, meat is needed to fuel the body, vegans risk every deficiency in the book...

Yeah but dates are just plum awful tasting!!

I'm guessing by the smiley face your being sarcastic? Dates are one of the most delicious foods on the planet, better then any man made candy bar can ever hope to be.


[edit on 29-10-2009 by Rawhemp]

reply to post by Tallsorts


Oh yes, animals know they are about to die, and the Animal Kingdom is well aware that they agreed to be food for Humans, that has been their function for a very long time. It doesn't make the whole thing pleasant, but there it is.

Oh please do expound on how you know this for sure. Do you talk animals and they tell you this. Or it this just something you "believe" and want the rest of us to believe.

I am just one person who no longer eats meat, because it was making me ill; but it's nice not to have death on my dinner plate. Some people become more advanced spiritually, and give up meat, and many more don't.

So, you vegans are more spiritually advanced than the meat eaters? Apparently, you are also more arrogant!

I would have no problem picking my fruit and veggies, but would all the meat eaters like to catch, kill and butcher their meat? It would be interesting to see how many would, but we shall never know.

Well, I'd be willing to bet that folks that live in rural areas have hunted, fished, butchered their own cattle, etc. or know someone who does. Hunters come from all walks of life. Those that grew up on family farms learn how to catch, kill and butcher their meat before they even go to school.

There are definitely meat eaters that live in the city, have never had a bit of interest in where their meat comes from and don't have a clue, but most rural folks know where the meat comes from, how it got there and have done it themselves.

Informed folks don't eat crap from factory farms! I live in rural Texas and natural beef, eggs, pork, chicken is easy to come by. Many of the grocery stores sell all natural meats. And a whole lot of folks can bag a deer from their front porch.

Originally posted by Lavey2
Well I hate to break it to you but margarine is boiled down animal scraps from the abotior that would account for the b12

I don't know where you buy your margarine, but the two brands I buy here in England are based on plant oils and other vegetable based ingredients. But you have to be careful what you buy. Products certified as Vegan, and which are fortified with B12 where this is sourced from micro-organisms and not from animal derivatives.

In animals that graze, these micro-organisms occur naturally in the animals' guts. Products that are not certified Vegan, may well contain B12 of animal origin, so you have to know what you are buying.

Here's the relevant information from the Vegan Society:

QUOTE FROM EXTERNAL SOURCE

The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals) and B12 supplements.

Vitamin B12, whether in supplements, fortified foods, or animal products, comes from micro-organisms.

The Vegan Society website has a Nutrition section which provides information on all aspects of Vegan Nutrition. The page dealing with Vitamin B12 is here:

www.vegansociety.com...

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain this often misunderstood topic.

Meat is not only bad for the body, but most important- for the soul -

It's not necessary to kill animals to survive.

Meat 'a must' for the body? ... oh please, that's rubbish.

But you know, at the end, it's ok.... go on people, keep reinforcing to yourselves the veracity of "one of those-absolute truths- you were taught since little which happen to be the perfect excuse to keep over-indulging your tastes -while the attrocities animals's experience remain overlooked and silenced by ignorance.

Eating meat is just an excuse to charge carbon credits. The elite want it to be unpopular because it takes food to grow animals. Just wait, they will make you pay carbon credits for eating meat, then when there are no more (non-elite) meat eaters left they will find something else to penalize you for. Meanwhile they will convert N America into one big game preserve so they can enjoy their safari.

Originally posted by inthesticks
reply to post by Tallsorts

 

Oh yes, animals know they are about to die, and the Animal Kingdom is well aware that they agreed to be food for Humans, that has been their function for a very long time. It doesn't make the whole thing pleasant, but there it is.

Oh please do expound on how you know this for sure. Do you talk animals and they tell you this. Or it this just something you "believe" and want the rest of us to believe.

Here you would need to read the Urantia Papers amongst other publications where the structure of Creation is described and the place of the individual is discussed. This is not something which can be found in the daily news media, and can be found if you look for it.

www.urantia.org...

I would not have you believe anything in particular, that's a matter for yourself. But when I saw the Original Post about the question of whether Meat was making us ill, I decided to join in the discussion.

I am just one person who no longer eats meat, because it was making me ill; but it's nice not to have death on my dinner plate. Some people become more advanced spiritually, and give up meat, and many more don't.

So, you vegans are more spiritually advanced than the meat eaters? Apparently, you are also more arrogant!

Vegans are no more spiritually advanced than any other group of people, as there are people of various levels of spiritual evolution throughout the world. And the fact that British Prisons have a Vegan option, together with Halal and Kosher, tends to bear this out.

I certainly didn't intend to be arrogant, as I simply wished to offer my experience of the subject.

I would have no problem picking my fruit and veggies, but would all the meat eaters like to catch, kill and butcher their meat? It would be interesting to see how many would, but we shall never know.

Well, I'd be willing to bet that folks that live in rural areas have hunted, fished, butchered their own cattle, etc. or know someone who does. Hunters come from all walks of life. Those that grew up on family farms learn how to catch, kill and butcher their meat before they even go to school.

There are definitely meat eaters that live in the city, have never had a bit of interest in where their meat comes from and don't have a clue, but most rural folks know where the meat comes from, how it got there and have done it themselves.

Of course they do, and if you'd read some of my other posts in this thread, you will know that I worked in a Butcher's Shop as a kid on Saturdays.

You write like somebody wants to take your meat away. I certainly don't. I know very well what egg on steak tastes like it as I used to have that in the Cavalry Barracks in Colchester Garrison UK. I have eaten most forms of meat fish and fowl when I was younger and have a library of the tastes in my memory.

But when you're sick, and getting worse and I'ts your digestive system which is the problem, you've got two choices:

1) Die,
2) Change diet.

I changed diet.

Informed folks don't eat crap from factory farms! I live in rural Texas and natural beef, eggs, pork, chicken is easy to come by. Many of the grocery stores sell all natural meats. And a whole lot of folks can bag a deer from their front porch.

You are right, but sadly the world's full of people who don't know what they're eating, but fortunately you aren't one of them.

I have never said that eating meat is wrong, or that it should be stopped. I have just explained a bit about a small part of my personal experience.

One other thing I can't eat is a Bagel. It's so heavy and indigestable in my system, that it bungs my gut up for a week. So I don't eat Bagels, and I'm writing about it here, and as far as I'm concerned the rest of the entire population can eat them as much as they want, it's nothing to do with me.

Our Creator gave us free-will, and I respect that, and am not trying to tell other people what to do. I just wanted to have a friendly discussion here about a subject which made me take life changing decisions, due to circumstances.

Eating meat is instinctual. We are not so far removed from our hunter-gatherer ancestors that we should consider ourselves "above" their ways.

Seriously, I know people who started craving raw meat and bone marrow as a result of going veg.

Originally posted by yadda333

Seriously, I know people who started craving raw meat and bone marrow as a result of going veg.

Guys we have to eat meat because yadda knows people who started craving raw meat, he knows them! Theirs your prove guys

reply to post by Rawhemp


Thanks Rawhemp, I've just visited one of your links and updated my knowledge of B12, and was VERY surprised to find this quote:

'The actual facts on B12 deficiencies are that many more meat and dairy eaters are B12 deficient than vegans and vegetarians mostly because they have problems secreting intrinsic factor and do not absorb B12 well.'

This is the link:

hygienehealth.mydietblogger.com...

I seem to learn something new every day.

When I was a veggie, I got sick, because I weigh 92 lbs.

And I don't really do dairy much. It's mean, because it's torture in most cases. At least eating animals puts them out of their misery.

Anyhow, I'm an omnivore. Humans are omnivores. Like our close relatives.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
When I was a veggie, I got sick, because I weigh 92 lbs.

maybe this has something to with the fact that you severley under ate, a common problem with vegans. Your gonna have problems if you don't get sufficient calories no matter what diet your on

Originally posted by ravenshadow13Anyhow, I'm an omnivore. Humans are omnivores. Like our close relatives.

What close ancestors? the primates who are frugivores? certain species of primates eat insects or small amounts of meat but this equates to 2% of there diet, 2%!!! The average Americans intake of animal protein constitutes 50% of there diet, often more...

Originally posted by bigdaddy7ftr

Originally posted by Aggie Man
reply to post by bigdaddy7ftr

 

Out of curiosity, at what age did you convert to vegetarian? Was it before or after your growth years? Or have you always been?

I became a vegetarian over 3 years ago, so yes I was already full grown by that time.

However, I have not lost any of the muscle mass or size that I gained while I was a meat eater. In other words, I have still maintained everything I built with my omnivorous diet...there has been no change in this respect.

Where exactly are you getting protein in your diet?

again all monkeys eat meat, all apes eat meat.