Eating Animals is Making us Sick

reply to post by bigdaddy7ftr


Out of curiosity, at what age did you convert to vegetarian? Was it before or after your growth years? Or have you always been?

Man I had no idea how many closed minded omnivores we have on ATS. I enjoy eating meat, but I don't need it to survive. I did an experiment awhile ago eating a vegetarian diet for a few weeks. After the first week I noticed that I was more energetic and clear minded than the previous week. I also just kind of felt better overall.

However I fell off the boat and relapsed back into omnivore status. (I have an undying love for Arby's roast burger ) So I challenge you that think humans have to have meat to survive. I don't know if I could ever totally give it up, but I bet we'd have a healthier society if we did.

Love & Peace ATS'ers

Omni

What we are doing with animals, and they're unclean crowded conditions is causing much areas that can breed illness. Also the trauma and misery, and this brutal way of treating our fellow sojourners on this planet is a lower vibration that must not be incorporated into your body.

I think people should take a pledge not to eat red meat of any and also, work that dairy products are produced in more benevolent way with better conditions for these beings, with a respect for all creatures great and small developing in all of us. Along with an empahsis on clean, organic practices without chemical pollutants and antibiotics. Chicken and fish is a good alternative and currently we need this, but they have emassed more poisons and chemicals in these even than in the red meat, and the prime fishing waters off north america have been polluted with mega tons of depleted uranium spent ammo and material.
This is an aspect that isn't known by most people.

So, its time I believe for people to grow their own foods as much as people and kick all the bloodlines out, including the corporate heads and bankers, to stop dealing with them and start dealing with each other completely. Just stop dealing with them alogether.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
reply to post by bigdaddy7ftr

 

Out of curiosity, at what age did you convert to vegetarian? Was it before or after your growth years? Or have you always been?

I became a vegetarian over 3 years ago, so yes I was already full grown by that time.

However, I have not lost any of the muscle mass or size that I gained while I was a meat eater. In other words, I have still maintained everything I built with my omnivorous diet...there has been no change in this respect.

Originally posted by InfiniteOmnipresence
Man I had no idea how many closed minded omnivores we have on ATS. I enjoy eating meat, but I don't need it to survive. I did an experiment awhile ago eating a vegetarian diet for a few weeks. After the first week I noticed that I was more energetic and clear minded than the previous week. I also just kind of felt better overall.

However I fell off the boat and relapsed back into omnivore status. (I have an undying love for Arby's roast burger

) So I challenge you that think humans have to have meat to survive. I don't know if I could ever totally give it up, but I bet we'd have a healthier society if we did.

Love & Peace ATS'ers

Omni

So........

How can you challenge any of us that think we need meat to survive when you yourself couldn't last more than three weeks?!

I'm not picking on you, I just think it is funny. I mean, if you were trying to make a case for a non-meat eating society, maybe you should have lied about falling off the boat!

reply to post by bigdaddy7ftr

I get plenty of protein from the foods I eat, and could not maintain my very large frame if it weren't the case. The myth that humans MUST eat meat to be strong and healthy is just that...a myth.

So, from what foods do you get your proteines and fats, if I may ask?

Originally posted by yadda333

Originally posted by InfiniteOmnipresence
Man I had no idea how many closed minded omnivores we have on ATS. I enjoy eating meat, but I don't need it to survive. I did an experiment awhile ago eating a vegetarian diet for a few weeks. After the first week I noticed that I was more energetic and clear minded than the previous week. I also just kind of felt better overall.

However I fell off the boat and relapsed back into omnivore status. (I have an undying love for Arby's roast burger

) So I challenge you that think humans have to have meat to survive. I don't know if I could ever totally give it up, but I bet we'd have a healthier society if we did.

Love & Peace ATS'ers

Omni

So........

How can you challenge any of us that think we need meat to survive when you yourself couldn't last more than three weeks?!

I'm not picking on you, I just think it is funny. I mean, if you were trying to make a case for a non-meat eating society, maybe you should have lied about falling off the boat!

Hey buddy yeah I am lazy and didn't quote who I was responding to. The point I'm trying to convey is that meat is not required for your existence. I saw a post on page one that stressed we need meat to survive. I disagree with this point entirely. I lived off vegetables/fruits, whey protein, and smoothies for 3 weeks. And yes, I did relapse back into eating meat. I say relapse because I honestly did feel much better without meat in my diet. I try to be honest as often as possible.

I also do believe a non-meating society would be healthier. The way we farm our meat is unsanitary, and I agree that it probably can be accountable for some illness's/diseases we have.

Love & Peace ATS'ers

Omni

First and foremost, I should point out that I was a Vegetarian for a year and half – I lost weight, I looked good, but I was tired a lot (sometimes sleeping up to 13 hours a night). I lived the “luxury” (which, I should point out is no easy feat for a broke-all-the-time University student) of buying “organic” produce from the market, took vitamin supplements for Iron, B12, Calcium, and Protein supplements (mainly soy) to make up for the losses I incurred from living such a lifestyle.

Then I learned something: The problem is not meat. The problem is commercialized meat. Meat that has changed dozens of hands before it reaches the dining room table.

Originally posted by Tallsorts
Oh yes, animals know they are about to die, and the Animal Kingdom is well aware that they agreed to be food for Humans, that has been their function for a very long time. It doesn't make the whole thing pleasant, but there it is.

How do you know that an animal knows they are about to die? Have you ever been an animal? Do you talk to animals? Do you KNOW with 100% certainty that animals have feelings and thoughts? You speak with such authority on the issue, I’d like to see some sources, some credentials, and some proof if you please—that animals “agreed” to be humans food source, and “know” when they’re going to die.

Does a deer grazing in a field know before the bow hits, that its going to die? Is this some sort of animal intuition? Does a fish in the lake, know that my bait is their last bite? If so – then why would they bite? So then do only SOME fish have this intuition as well? See now we’re just getting into semantics about a subject neither of us are educated in or have practical first hand experience with.

2. Animals never agreed to be food for humans, anymore then the mosquito agreed to land in the spiders web to provide food for the spider. The part of the food chain puts US at the top. HUMANS are the intellectual species, HUMANS have a thought process that is superior to animals – which is why we surf the internet, build computers, build sky scrapers, and live in cities. THIS gives us the advantage. THIS makes us top of the food chain.

Whether you believe in Mother Nature, Evolution or God it’s irrelevant: We were designed/created/evolved to be the TOP. And if you believe in the religious aspect of it (Christianity or even Catholicism) then you would know, within reading the first 5 chapters of Genesis, that God put fruits, vegetables and animals on the planet for one purpose – to sustain the human race. If there is a God – there is no “agreeing” about it. There wasn’t some Animal/Human Summit in which all species were in attendance.......no one agreed to do, or be anything – it just IS.

Even if you believe in evolution, survival of the fittest – baring that cannibalism is frowned upon, and linked to several psychological disorders in tribes that still practice that—and Darwin’s theories of evolution, then it would stand to reason WE (the human race as a whole) is the fittest, thus placing all other mammals beneath us, in the line of the food chain.
(I am in NO way suggesting or endorsing any of these ideas... just a subject worth mentioning).

I have 2 dogs, and I have a cat. As much as I like to think "Oh the cat is smart for pestering the dogs then hiding under the deck" or “it hurts the cat’s feelings when I kick him out of my room at night” it's absolutely untrue. WE give our pet’s personality, thoughts and feelings – I would be a hypocrite to say my heart didn’t wrench when I found Freddy (my cat) sitting outside a hotel in a Cold Alberta Winter. It did, I felt sorry for him and it broke my heart that he was a teeny tiny little kitty that someone left out in the cold. But Freddy—was none the wiser of the people who left him there, or of my thoughts to take him home with me to a nice warm home. We associate our human emotions with animals because we’ve been conditioned to. Our media shows us movies of Pigs that talk, Pets that go on some long adventure to get home etc... etc...

Animals act on the basis of cause and effect/affect(*), instinct, and through a series of learning procedures. Behaviour of an animal (humans included too) can be predicted, influenced and manipulated. They’re opportunists, if they see food, they eat. If they have the opportunity to be “trained” into acting a certain way—which by the way is considered to be a manipulation of behaviour or classical conditioning to those who are familiar with the term—then they learn. They learn through rewards and punishments. It’s simple Psychology. Whether its in nature, in a lab, in a home etc... The animal does not make the conscious decision to stop acting a certain way. They associate the behavior through the rewards and punishments, and as such, a behavior can be changed, extinguished, or continued.

I am just one person who no longer eats meat, because it was making me ill; but it's nice not to have death on my dinner plate. Some people become more advanced spiritually, and give up meat, and many more don't.

I’m glad you’re no longer ill. The spirituality thing is lost on me though - I never once felt spiritual from not eating meat.

I would have no problem picking my fruit and veggies, but would all the meat eaters like to catch, kill and butcher their meat? It would be interesting to see how many would, but we shall never know.

Great – now here’s the million dollar question: Do you pick your own fruits and veggies?

Did you not take into account hunters? People who actually DO all that stuff themselves? Did you know that there are people who live in less urban communities who DO this stuff, ALL THE TIME? And don’t even flinch about it? Go check out a Rural Alberta, or Manitoba – and then ASK that question to ANY of the men you see walking around.

I don’t know about you – but the people I know, who fish – do all the maintenance themselves, usually right there in the boat, or by the shore.

The people I know who own a cattle farm in Northern Manitoba – do all of their own butchering, and whatever else is required.

The people I know who hunt for their meat – DO everything they need to do by themselves, to fill their freezers full of meat for the winter - or they do the killing and skining themselves, and have a butcher (usually someone they know, most likely someone they play crib with at the local pub) make the cuts and prepare the meat.

I understand this style of living is not feasible for everyone, and to make this sort of lifestyle change is nearly impossible for those who live in cities and urban centers. You can only do, what you are able to do, in the area of which you live.

In my opinion your body is only as good as what you put in it. Which is why I encourage having your own garden, growing everything yourself, and eating only the meat you catch, kill, or butcher yourselves. Someone mentioned Amish farms – these are usually pretty great for chickens, and knowing someone who owns a cattle farm makes it a whole lot more easier to stomach the thought of beef – which by the way tastes way better then when purchased from the supermarket.

There has to be, and should be, a healthy balance of all things: meat and vegetables in a person’s diet unless dietary restrictions keep them from ingesting certain foods.

Just some thoughts..

- Carrot


[edit on 10/28/2009 by CA_Orot]

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by bigdaddy7ftr

 

I get plenty of protein from the foods I eat, and could not maintain my very large frame if it weren't the case. The myth that humans MUST eat meat to be strong and healthy is just that...a myth.

So, from what foods do you get your proteines and fats, if I may ask?

Nuts, legumes, avocados are all very good...

However, I also have NOT given up dairy, so that is another source of protein.

reply to post by bigdaddy7ftr


And there we have it.

You are NOT a vegetarian.

Dairy is an animal product and is not vegetarian.

You do not eat the meat, but you still use the animal.

Originally posted by bigdaddy7ftr
Nuts, legumes, avocados are all very good...

However, I also have NOT given up dairy, so that is another source of protein.

All fantastic sources of protein. Lots of fat in them, but good protein source. Those are all part of my diet too. I've gotten to the point where I enjoy an avocado for a meal now and again...just the avocado. Of course I eat every 2 to 3 hours...about 6 to 7 times daily...so my diet doesn't lack in other areas when I choose to eat just 1 item like that.

I don't think I could ever give up meat completely, but I have certainly cut back from my "steak & taters" days, when I would easily consume 1+ pound of red meat daily. And I must say, I feel much better, health wise, than I did before.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by bigdaddy7ftr

 

And there we have it.

You are NOT a vegetarian.

Dairy is an animal product and is not vegetarian.

You do not eat the meat, but you still use the animal.

you are technically correct...but I put milk in that gray area...because everyone has consumed milk at some point in their life...unless they were not breast fed and were raised a strict vegetarian. What he is describing is called lacto-vegetarian...and is common among vegetarians

reply to post by CA_Orot


The bible and the whole patriarchal society that has emerged is part of the bloodline nuki control of this planet. And humanity has so much ego and has destroyed the eco system of this planet.

Earth, is a sentinent being, and the vibrations of nature, all creatures is higher than our own. Its very valuable to go into nature to do your meditations. Some of the creatures here are our watchers, higher dimensional ETS. We were not put here to dominate this planet or species, that judaic western concept came out of Sumeria and spread through certain bloodlines, from 12 tribes. They also performed animal sacrifices. Nature, and the animals here are our teachers, and to proving it is a self journey, remarkable really, and its evolutionary. It takes waking up to who you are in source, meditation, seeking and developing your insight. It takes going out into nature, kneeling on mother earth and asking for her forgiveness for being a part of the problem. And listening, frequently. You may be very surprised. Ask how you can help her as well. And with each creature, plant, insect, great or small, meditate and ask for them to teach you, and try to communicate with them, see yourself as them when you do it, the oneness and empathy. Tell them you are sorry as well, and that you are seeking to unlock earth's living library.

The physical trauma and suffering that goes into our animal practices diminshes its value in our body, and is a huge block to our advancement.

reply to post by Aggie Man

What he is describing is called lacto-vegetarian...and is common among vegetarians

No offense, but i call it fake vegetarian...and I bet is common.

Historically, naturally speaking, we just need proteine from animals, be it meat or milk products.

I have no problem with vegans, just with the ones that act like eating meat is not natural or immoral.

reply to post by Unity_99


You may have missed the part of my post where I said I did not support either of the concepts I mentioned, biblical & evolutional. Both are just concepts to be looked at, and as while Mother Nature is something we need to respect, I never once stated that we should or that I do take nature for granted.

Just because I did not mention my particular practices on Going Green and savng the planet - doesn't mean that I'm not actively myself helping to better this planet, It means it wasn't relavant to my post.

I'm all about sustainable development, and making a lesser impact on the world. Which someone, could look at eating commerical meat (that has been packaged, processed, and dealt with at multiple places) leaves a larger impact on society then the cattle rancher who does all such things himself...Transportation costs, marginal cost/benefit to society (includes pollution, and diminishing natural resources), need to be taken into account when thinking about the environment.

I stand by my thoughts on humans being superior to animals in that our brain activity, methods of communication, and learning are more advanced - but not in that way that we should be out killing them for the hell of it.

Its one thing to take what you need, to take to be greedy, is another story.

I eat fish that we catch, I eat meat from the farm, and I eat vegetables from my mothers garden. We don't overfish, or overstock - we take what we need.


- Carrot

[edit on 10/28/2009 by CA_Orot]

New Kids on the Block had a lot of hits,
Chinese food makes me sick,
And I think it's fly when the girls stop by for the summer...For the summer,
I like girls that wear Abercrombie and Fitch...

You are aware if you feed a baby a pure Vegan diet they die? There are Parents who kill their own babies every year.

An adult who switches to a pure Vegan diet can only make it for 6 or 7 years before they start to destroy themselves physically. The Liver can only store so much from the meat they ate before they fell for the Vegan myth.

Check me out on this. I'm right. You need at least some meat products in your life to live. You are an omnivore whether you like it or not. To deny your own species is a bit strange.

I'll agree we eat too much meat. The other Vegan nonsense is nutty.

On top of this, if you remove animal protein from the worlds diet; millions if not a billion would die the first year. It takes huge amounts of vegetables and fruit to compensate and they are not available. It would be tantamount to genocide.

We have as much right to eat our natural diet as any other animal.

one thing I cant stand is the vegan and vegetarian right wing movement, which is basically whats happening here.

disinformation regarding a vegetarian diet puts peoples health at risk, if you look at medical history more people have been seriously effected by going vegan there is an average of a shortened lifespan ranging from 5-20 years.

Vegetarians need to take vitamin pills..... my sister is a vegetarian she has anemia and low iron problems wont listen to the doctor wont take her vitamins and has the working IQ of that of an ant.

I suggest if anyone thinks of going on such a diet, speak to your doctor about the health implications first, a dietitian and the health risks regarding soy products and such.

I guarantee you that there is no such thing as a safe vegetarian diet for a human being and that if you were to be on such a diet you would need to supplement it with pills, now how F#CKING natural is that?!?!

NOT AT ALL.

In fact vitamins have been proven to do more harm than good in some cases with high amounts of selenium in them causing nails and hair to fall out.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WIH YOU PEOPLE

Look at the hard scientific data speak to your doctor and a dietitian, and they will tell you the same thing.

DO NOT push ideals saying that its 'natural' and we were supposed to only eat green leaves as that is complete rubbish and any archeologist will tell you the same thing from digging up bones from 50,000 years ago.

Our ancestors hunted animals and ate them, and before that our ape predesessor ate meat and hunted in packs.

This is science and history proving that we have and always will be omnivores.

If you want to go on a vegan diet or be a vegetarian I suggest you speak to your doctor and a medical specialist, not a herbalist, not some spiritual guru, not a preist and not your best friend.

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Hunting for sport is not on though, that is what i disagree with.

LOL, it's comforting to know murderers have at least some sense of morality, ha. What we need are a whole bunch of cannibals or lizards from outer space to land on Earth so they can go around teaching others what it feels like to be food.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by Divinorumus]

I beg your pardon. I've never murdered anything.

How about yes, they'd probably eat the vegetarians first because they

A) Fail to eliminate the cultivation of other predatory creatures on the planet. Thus threatening the new invader with more dangers such as bovines and sharks.

B) Are obviously unaware of the progress of their own species, the development of the arched spinal cord for example is almsot certianly based on a theory that human kind developed stronger hips , as to avoid falling over in the currents of the sea whilst early humans hunted for protein rich food on the coasts , including crabs, sea weed, fish and other such sea side savoury delicacies. Any offspirng on the human branch should have to know its history or fall at the first hurdle.

C) Certain rules must apply to a vegetarian. If a vegetarian should visit an omnivorous household, the vegetarian is always given an alternative menu. Whereas should an omnivore visit a vegetarian or even worse a vegan household, they will be forced to either eat what everybody else is eating.
This singles out the vegetarian and quite thankfully the vegan to any nearby lurking space predators.

D) You'd taste nicer.

Originally posted by Doc Tesla
Officially, fiber is a type of carbohydrate that the body can't digest.

I can't believe this response has been given so many stars. The body NEEDS indigestible substances to maintain its health - this is VITAL. To claim that because it is indigestible we are not meant to eat it is nothing more than uneducated drivel.

Secondly, we have rudimentary canine teeth not because we need meat - but because we ate meat. Evolution adapts the body accordingly with how it is used.