Doctors speak out about H1N1 Vaccine Dangers

Originally posted by argentus
I had occasion on another thread to compile some basic evidence toward the idea that squalene is and has caused adverse reaction in humans. I think the information is relative to this thread, so I've linked My Post.

Holy &^$%!! I had never heard THIS about Squalene!!

"some F2 hybrid rats developed chronic arthritis, a phenotype not apparent in the parental inbred strains. Our demonstration that an autoadjuvant can trigger chronic, immune-mediated joint-specific inflammation may give clues to the pathogenesis of rheumatoid arthritis, and it raises new questions concerning the role of endogenous molecules with adjuvant properties in chronic inflammatory diseases."

In laymen's terms, these scientists found that giving Squalene adjuvant (which is in the H1N1 vaccine) to rats, caused the next generation to develop chronic conditions that the first generation had only due to breading!!

Now I'm REALLY not getting the vaccine!



[edit on 28-10-2009 by notreallyalive]

reply to post by notreallyalive


This is what a lot of people are thinking nobody knows the long term affects this thing was rushed out so fast.
Long term this could be bad but it will be too late then.

THANKYOU

reply to post by sylph16



The FDA didn't approve anything they gave it a EUA, each doctor who wants to use the new drug has to get special permission to use it. IT IS NOT APPROVED

www.cdc.gov...

Originally posted by Asherah
Hmm. Although it might be "nobel" for Obama to be willing to "stand in line" for his vaccine, he is still the potus. He must do all he can to remain healthy in order to do his job. He IS first in line as is his family for this vaccine, yet they are all refusing to take it. If it were safe, and it's good enough for the American people why hasn't he or his wife taken it?

uhhh I think you mean "noble"? unless you meant to make a connection to his nobel prize..

sorry it just irks me when people try making a point with blatant grammer errors.

I have to admit, I'm thoroughly frustrated right now. I posted this video on another forum, and mostly got reemed because Dr. Andrew Wakefield is supposedly a joke and an outcast among his peers. I had people telling me I am nuts, stupid, an eccentric quack, among other things. I guess some people will believe anything their government tells them.

Oh and I'm new to ATS. I'm looking forward to speaking with people who are awake and aware and who don't blindly follow a government fueled by greed.

reply to post by UnityFT


Welcome! You're in the right place.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean

The numbers are bunk and you know it. It is common knowledge that only a small portion of sick persons are tested.

Do you know how the standard flu deaths are calculated?
They calculate how many people died before the flu season then how many die during the flu season. If more die during flu season they attribute it to flu. It is guessing game as privacy laws here do not allow for accurate counts. Obama’s national emergency might provide some valid figures, but until then the numbers are from confirmed cases and do not even begin to cover all related deaths plain and simple!

Wow... are you sure about this? It sounds kind of strange to me that this is how they make up the numbers. I'm not from the US so I have no idea if your statement is correct but I know for a fact that in my country every person who dies gets diagnosed with a cause of death which is then logged for statistical value. Now I do realise that occasional faults are made with the actual diagnosis but seriously.... what you propose here can't be correct.

This would mean that once the norm is reached EVERYONE who dies of a heartattack (no 1 cause of death in the US?) or OD's themselves or whatever else causes them to perish, is counted as a flu victim. Where did you get this info and do you honestly believe it to be correct?

What about the other diseases mentioned, like TBC / Malaria etc? Do they stop attributing deaths to those diseases, whose numbers are way higher than flu, when the flu season starts? I'm sorry but that's just silly.

As far as I'm concerned, cause of death is one of the most vital statistics for any country who cares the least bit about their nation's healthcare status and I fail to see what privacy law has to do with keeping accurate stats.

On the other hand, perhaps they really don't care and you are right about the way the stats are calculated....

[edit on 28-10-2009 by Mokoman]

reply to post by Mr. Suave


Thanks for that Mr. Suave i am not American but i like this man he would have made a great president its a shame America ended up with Obama.
And if Obamas kids did get the shot how would you know its the same one that others get

THANKYOU

Could the real plan be to scare you to death beg for help then when you are so scared and feel vulnerable the TAKE OVER i know this vid is just a mock up of bits and bobs but it makes sense.

State Border closing and H1N1 (Swine Flu) Vaccines


Think about it there has got to be a reason they are doing this a power grab that's what i think anyway.

THANKYOU

Noticed this on another forum - French doctor says it as he sees it..

www.youtube.com...

Sorry even following the guidance for embedding youtube vids it doesn't work for me any more (it used to)

It's in french anyway but so that you have the correct reference, here is the translated text..courtesy of Redshedevil on the other forum (TY)

TRANSLATION:
"A vaccine is being developed in conditions of amateurism such as I have never seen. Lets take the pessimistic hypothesis: one death among every 1000 patients. There are plans to vaccinate 60 million people, and you so you already have 60,000 deaths, and this time, young people, children, pregnant women.

„What you are saying is serious because many people are getting ready to get the vaccine and you, you are saying: „You must not get a vaccination!
„YES, it is a vaccine that has been developed at great speed in conditions that put in danger the public health. There is a need to return back to the obligation that politicians have right now to protect citizens against the desire of the pharmaceutical industry to make money with all these vaccines. There is a public health code of law from 2007 which obliges all health professionals who give their opinions to reveal their interests. That law is ridiculed every day. All the people who you see saying: „the flu, its very serious, have interests, their lines interests, and that is why they say what they say. The public health administration is an example to us of a daily violation of the law. I am a medical specialist and I am against medicines that have no purpose. This vaccine is not just badly developped: it is not developped!

Dr Marc Girard, a specialist in the side effects of drugs and a medical expert commissioned by French courts, has said said on French TV that the "swine flu" vaccine could cause 60,000 deaths in France, especially among young people, children and pregnant women.
He also said that the people promoting the "swine flu" vaccine are doing so because they have links with the pharmaceutical company.

The problem with the "swine flu" vaccine is that it is not just "badly developped" but "not developped", he said, adding that it is being prepared in conditions that endanger the public health.



« - On développe un vaccin dans des conditions d'amateurisme que je n'ai jamais vues.

Prenons l'hypothèse pessimiste : un décès chez 1000 patients. On va vacciner 60 millions de gens, eh bien vous allez avoir 60.000 décès et cette fois ci, des gens jeunes, des enfants, des femmes enceintes. ».

- C'est grave ce que vous dites car on est tous prêts à aller se faire vacciner et vous, vous dites : « Il ne faut pas se faire vacciner ! ».

- OUI, c'est un vaccin qui est développé à la va-vite, dans des conditions qui mettent en danger la santé publique. Qu'on revienne à l'obligation qu'ont les politiques actuellement de protéger les citoyens contre le désir de l'industrie pharmaceutique de faire de l'argent avec les vaccins. Il y a une loi du code de la santé publique de 2007 qui fait obligation à tout professionnel de santé qui s'exprime sur les ondes de faire état de ses liens d'intérêts. Cette loi est bafouée tous les jours. Tous les gens qu'on voit dire : « la grippe, c'est très grave », ont des liens, leur lien d'intérêt, qu'ils le disent. L'administration sanitaire nous donne l'exemple d'une violation quotidienne de la loi. Je suis un spécialiste des médicaments et je suis contre les médicaments qui ne sont pas au point.

Ce vaccin, ce n'est pas qu'il est mal développé : il n'est pas développé ! ».

Any french speakers care to contribute?

cheers

Berth

Honestly, how dangerous is this vaccine? I think a lot of people are overreacting about this whole thing.

I've received flu vaccines in the past, and besides a little bump and soreness where they put it, I was fine... This is no different.

The thing is, if you start researching something, looking for evidence against it, you'll find it... for ANYTHING. I could say, I will eat a McDonald's Hamburger tonight, then you could research that and tell me "NO!!! YOU WILL DIE FROM IT BECAUSE (this is where you would rant about chemicals in the meat, preservatives, foreign beef from south america, blah blah blah...)" But in reality, we've all eaten a Rotten Ronnies McCrapburger, and nothing bad happened to us, aside for weight-gain and possible diarrhea.

I know you're going to say "this is different, it's a vaccine" but the fact remains, all ingredients of the vaccine are known, there's nothing being clinically tested, because, realistically, nothing needs to get heavily tested.

Is your main concern the mercury? The stuff that can trigger autism in children? Let me tell you this... do you eat tunafish sandwiches? There's more mercury in 1 single tunafish sandwich than there is in the shot. We are talking about MICROGRAMS here, do you seriously have any idea how small 15 Micrograms are? There's poison in EVERYTHING, Arsenic in apple seeds, but hey, I eat the core, and I'm still alive.

Jeez, it's ok to question something... but this shot, is only to save lives, probably not YOUR life, but in getting it, you'll save someone elses life... Because we know the chances of dying from H1N1 are very small, smaller than the normal flu, but that's not the important part... the important part is the SPREAD... We all know that 1% is 1% right? And we all know that H1N1 spreads like wildfire right? Well, 1% of lets say 50000 normal flu cases is 500 right? So normal flu, 500 die... Now H1N1 comes, and 2,000,000 get it... that's 20,000 dead. 500 to 20,000...

THATS what the US and all rich countries are trying to prevent... imagine the HAVOK that would cause on the already crippled US Economy, health system, not to mention every other health system on the globe. So YES they are going to push this shot, YES they are trying to make you think like you DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE... because in the end, you do, all they can do is make you believe you don't.

THIS ISN'T POPULATION CONTROL! Get that idiotic idea out of your head, you're a freak if you think that. My buddy lost his job because of this unsupported conspiracy stuff. I read it all, and hold everything as a mere possibility, but I never full-fledge believe what people are saying... because in reality, especially in the Americas, we are NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to anything remotely similar to overpopulation. There are just people digging up dirt.

I'm getting the shot, not for myself, because I'm tough enough to take H1N1, I'm getting it in order to stop or significantly reduce the possibility of spreading it to others that might possibly die from it.

You gotta know when to draw the line people, don't just think about yourselves.

Here's another thing I've found to disprove this video.

Now I began doing my own research on these "doctors" in the OP video, and well, I was getting to a conclusion when I found this next thing I will show you. From my quick research, it didn't take long for me to realize not one of those doctors had enough credit to their name for me to even consider what they have to say. I found the exact conclusion I was coming down with, already written somewhere else.

You can find it HERE

Hi Mark

Thanks for the links. I prefer reading actual scientific studies than limited half-sentences from doctors and lobbyists though – it’s hard to put a lot of weight in these clips.

Your first clip features:

1. Barbara Loe Fisher: no medical training whatsoever. Has troubled kids and I feel terrible for her and their challenges, but also has been known to spread incorrect information linking the DPT vaccine and SIDS, despite ten years of clinical studies showing no such link.

2. Dr Rene Toko (misspelled): chiropractor who works with autistic kids. The vaccine – autism link has been strongly disproven in multiple studies, and she’s not medically schooled in either area anyway.

3. Dr Warren Levin: I love that he’s pushed the cosmetics industry and governments on toxicity, that’s great. However, a common concern that he alludes to is toxic chemicals used in vaccines, but the toxins that are complained about most often aren’t used any more – not since 2001 for example, for thimerosal. It was used since the 1930s, but only in multiple-dose devices, never for single-use like we see at flu clinics. But that kinda gets ignored in this I find.

4. Stephen Marini, PhD: Chiropractor, not medical doctor. His clip is edited so I don’t know what he actually said in the original, but this clip makes it seem like he thinks vaccines can lead to allergies (DPT has this as a rare side-effect, 0.0007% of the time, and even moderate side effects only appear 0.1-1.0% of the time), asthma, and autism. I have not yet read one single peer-reviewed study which supports a claim of asthma or autism. He also appears to say that DPT and MMR are diseases we “now know how to handle”. While this may be true, we vaccinate (and have for generations) because of how many kids they KILLED.

a. Diphtheria: 13000+ kids killed in US per year before the vaccine, and only 3 cases total (no deaths) between 2000 and 2007.

b. Pertussis: still kills up to a dozen kids per year in the US even despite vaccinations, and killed many more before.

c. Tetanus: still kills about five every year in the US, almost always due to lack of vaccination.

d. Measles: killed 345,000 worldwide in 2005, but only 101 cases total in Canada in 2007.

e. Rubella: In 1964-65, 11,000 miscarriages or therapeutic abortions and 20,000 cases of congenital rubella syndrome. Of these, 2,100 died as neonates, 12,000 were deaf, 3,580 were blind and 1,800 were mentally retarded. (all USA). It was announced “eliminated in the USA” by the CDC in 2004.

(All of these numbers are on Wikipedia and are referenced)

5. Mary Toko (misspelled): no medical training, sells a DVD about her beliefs, and disseminates information clearly against the scientific consensus (like vaccines cause autism).

OK, that’s an hour of research, and I’ve only covered one minute of the first video. I’m exhausted from my class today, so I’m going to sign off on this debate. Thanks for the links – I do appreciate them. I do also hope that you research the publicly funded independent science too.

Lastly: bringing up Nazis is really not a good way to win an argument. It’s like sandblasting a soda cracker! I agree Nazis were bad, but I strongly disagree that there is a relevant comparison between doctors who believe vaccines are good and the Nazis.

Probably safest to agree to disagree.

Cam

Take it the way you want... but I did the same research and came down with the same views.

reply to post by mindpurge


What exactly are you trying to say here

Jeez, it's ok to question something... but this shot, is only to save lives, probably not YOUR life, but in getting it, you'll save someone else's life... Because we know the chances of dying from H1N1 are very small, smaller than the normal flu, but that's not the important part...

Look this is a conspiracy site that's a fact.
You are entitled to your opinion if you want the shot that is your decision i have made mine not to have it.
You actually think these people value our life's all this people think about is money that is my opinion.


THANKYOU

reply to post by Mokoman


The numbers are fudged, and here is the proof! It is undeniable!

www.science4dummies.com...

www.thaindian.com...

www.sciencedaily.com...

www.newscientist.com...

According to the CDC's own numbers, influenza was listed as the underlying cause on just 849 death certificates in 2006, the most recent year available. online.wsj.com... In 2001, the government said that there were only about 280 deaths from flu

The CDC uses indirect modelling methods to estimate the number of deaths associated with influenza. Thus the much publicised figure of 36,000 is not an actual count of yearly flu deaths, as widely reported in both the lay and scientific press, but an estimate - generated by a model - of flu-associated death.

This estimate came from a 2003 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), which looked at the 1990-91 through the 1998-99 flu seasons [10]. Statistical modeling was used to estimate how many flu-related deaths occurred among people whose underlying cause of death on their death certificate was listed as a respiratory or circulatory disease. During these years, the number of estimated deaths ranged from 17,000 to 52,000.

These number are fudged, and it is plain to see! The CDC is working with manufacturers' by conducting campaigns to increase flu vaccination. Honestly, please ask yourself how many children you see dropping dead of the seasonal flu! These findings are not peer reviewed, and not worth the paper they are printed on.

You folks have it bass akwards! I have seen it first hand, and swine is very very bad news.

I have no reason to make this stuff up. Please do a little research yourself. I never said that vaccines are safe. I just said that the swine severity is being covered up, and thats the obvios truth is you would only open your eyes.

Talk about a parody with the story “The Emperor’s new clothes”. You people are blind to things that are so obvious it is mind boggling. You have such a distrust of the government, yet you backup their obviously fudged numbers emphatically? Jesus man!!

2006 statistics. (The CDC clearly lumps influenza and pneumonia together for their tally.)

Number of deaths in 2006 from influenza: 846
Number of deaths in 2006 from pneumonia: 55,477
Number of estimated deaths from the CDC influenza model: 56,326

I can only find this on a cached page from google. It is the statistics from the National Center for Health Statistics. I have a copy of the page saved if this link stops working. (The link didn’t post right so just copy and paste)
74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:O_VZUPGdT88J:nchspressroom.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/data-on-deaths-due-to-influenza/+influenza+death+rates&cd=1&hl=en&ct= clnk&gl=us


I would think it would be better to question why the annual numbers are so exaggerated. Was the swine planned, were the numbers meant to calm us? Medicare claims have went down this year for the first time in history! Are we engaged in a plot to cull the herds? I do not watch any TV and missed all the supposed hype about the swine. This is just the way I perceive the events that I see unfolding. Like I said earlier in this post I know of two deaths that were not attributed to swine, but both died of flu complications. The local news paper just said one died in his sleep (A healthy 28 yr old). Time will tell, and if you start to see people in ICU or dead in your neighborhood etc then you will know what is happening.

Are the attacks on Fox News meant to sway the discontented masses trust to that news outlet? I wouldn’t trust them any further than I could throw them at this point.

I think it is very odd that when we expect vaccine shortages, all of a sudden we have massive numbers of people who will refuse the vaccine. It is an engineered mindset you have there buddy! Baa Baa sheep!!

[edit on 28-10-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Well this is my first post on ATS. Long time reader / new poster. With this said I could not make a new or headline post / topic. Now I need 19 more with this said Since this is related to the so called pandemic of swine flu I thought I would bring this to everyones attention. Found this today...US borders to close, martial law to be Implimented. If this is found worthy feel free to bring it to a new thread and topic. I hope I did this first post correct....

Source /
www.youtube.com...

width="425" height="344"> "http://www.youtube.com/v/bp0FEMEsNrQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">

Hope the video worked...

Hi everyone!

I woke up today to some news I've actually been waiting for.
I'm from Norway, and norway seems to be a severe case in this influensa time with 13 deaths so far.... we are around 4.7 million people in this country, and sweeden have lost 2 people to H1N1 (they are around 9 mill) and 4 people after the vaccine. Danmark har lost 0 person (population 5.5 mill) And Finland has lost 1 person.

And the news today were... We are now looking in to the possibillity that Norway got a slightly different virus H1N1 then the rest of the world.... ???
As far sa I know they havent been obducting the peolpe that have died, but rather asumed that they died from H1N1.

Well my asumption is that this is just another scaretactick cause most people refuse to take the vaccine, and strangeliy enough IF they are right, the vaccine will do no use )

Im not the best in writhing english, but I hope you understand what Im trying to say.

My first post on ATS

I think more and more people are not taking the vaccine thanks to the wide world of information at their fingertips via the WWW.

Many doctors are warning against it. Dont see an actual shortage of supply..just another mind game and scare tactic. Think the lady in the video above I posted is correct? She's in the military....coulkd this turn ugly?

reply to post by faithkeeper


I saw the thread with that in all i will say on that is it's a possibility that this could happen but she in the only source to this so i will wait to see if more info comes out on that.
I saw another thread that says it has mutated if this is true and the vaccine did work will it now

THANKYOU

Here is smoking gun evidence that swine flu vaccine is a bioweapon.

fourwinds10.com...

These World Health Organization memos show that the three-shot vaccine is a deliberate killer!