Non-Believers...

I invite you to experience 23 minutes in Hell.

Bill Weise - "23 Minutes In Hell"

My prayers are with you daily folks, and I wanted to share with you the testimony of a man who was given a tour of Hell from the Lord.

I don't need your comments, or U2Us, I just hoped if I could get one person to watch the video it would be awesome, just 1 person. I pray you'll take time to listen to this man speak and share his experience.

God bless you all.

Trying to promote religion out of fear is just plain distasteful, and that is putting it nicely.

And that is all that is. It's nothing more than using fear in order to promote something. No different than people who use fear to promote wars and such as a tool of manipulation to get people to do things they wouldn't normally do.

You want to see hellish things, you can see them right here on earth.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

reply to post by badmedia
I'm not using fear, Hell is "scary" because it was intended to be scary. The love of Jesus Christ promotes salvation, not fear.

No man or woman is saved because of fear, or "fire insurance" so to speak. this thread and video is intended to change minds of folks, even some Christians I said in the OP, who do not believe in a literal Hell.

You have made a straw man argument to my OP. This thread is posted out of love for my fellow mankind.

So am I to assume you still do not believe there is a Hell after watching this man give his testimony? Is my assumption correct?

Thank you for watching the video, that's all I wanted you to do.



[edit on 24-10-2009 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by danishD


Thank you for watching the video.

So basically he had a nightmare.

Anyway, Dante’s tour was better.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

One comes to the Loving Father out of love. He doesn't want us coming to him out of fear. Jesus showed us how much the Lord loved and gave us grace. It is through Christ one comes to the Father and not out of fear.



Peace,
Grandma

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by badmedia

 

I'm not using fear, Hell is "scary" because it was intended to be scary. The love of Jesus Christ promotes salvation, not fear.

No man or woman is saved because of fear, or "fire insurance" so to speak. this thread and video is intended to change minds of folks, even some Christians I said in the OP, who do not believe in a literal Hell.

You have made a straw man argument to my OP. This thread is posted out of love for my fellow mankind.

So am I to assume you still do not believe there is a Hell after watching this man give his testimony? Is my assumption correct?

Thank you for watching the video, that's all I wanted you to do.

You directed the thread to "Non-Believers". That was the title of the thread. What followed is nothing more than fear mongering.

It amounts to "believe what I say, or you will go to hell and face alot of pain" and so forth.

But what parent punishes their child forever? None. A parent gives the child punishment out of love for the child. In order to teach the child a lesson, so that the child will be better off in the future. If a parent punishes their child for eternity, then it is not for a lesson, but it is nothing put pure evil and for no purpose other than to cause pain and suffering.

Do you even realize what you are implying about the father when you say these things? Do you even think about things deep enough to see such things? Do you realize you are making the father out to be worse than even the worse dictators on earth? 1000 times worse than Hitler or others? Do you have any idea how disrespectful you are to the father??

The riches of the father are more than enough reward for those who honestly seek such, rather than trying to reinforce their own biases and blind belief. But you know nothing of these riches. There is no understanding in your words, no wisdom, nothing useful. Just the promotion of fear, and that which is Satanic.

So, in terms of "hell", it works like this. You will reap what you sow. If you sow hellish things, then you will reap hellish things. No video is needed for this, all you have to do is look out in the world now and your own life lessons. The only way anyone, Satan included, would ever spend eternity in hell is because it is by their own choice. Yes, that is right, choice. Because they will keep sowing bad things, and keep reaping it.

If you put your finger on the stove eye, it will burn you. If you refuse to remove your finger it will continue to burn you. And it will burn you until you learn the lesson and remove your finger. Once you remove your finger, then the source of the burning is removed. You will still feel the effects of those choices for awhile, but the healing has begun.

In other words, once you remove and fix your errors, then you are automatically forgiven. Because it is no longer an issue, as you will no longer make that mistake. This is what it means to repent for your sins. Repent = fix/change, sins = mistakes. It is no different than the stove eye. You will still reap the mistakes of your past, but in time they will heal and no longer be an issue, as you have fixed the problem. Forgiveness is instant and automatic.

And it is no different than with a parent and their child. The parent only wants to help the child fix their mistakes. It does the child no good to punish them for eternity, but it can do them a world of good to get them in response to mistakes. Then the child is actually given a chance to fix their mistakes. Eternal hell offers no such things.

So Jesus:

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

See that he doesn't come for the righteous? Why not? Because they have already fixed their sins. Instead he comes for sinners. And why? To bring them to repentance. Again, he comes to show people how to fix their mistakes and sins. He says this directly.

Why is this needed?

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

A good understanding is needed for one to keep the commandments. When Jesus is asked why he speaks in parables, it's so that people can "hear". Meaning, anyone can listen and repeat his words, but only by understanding do you actually "Hear" him.

Fear in that verse is in terms of like respect, to be in awe of, to even begin to realize how much greater the father is and so forth. To be in fear of that is not in terms of the way you would fear a shark in the ocean, or hell. It is a fear in the same way you would fear your parents. The way you do not want to let your parents down and so forth. Fear that you do not disappoint and do well etc. Not fear as in being scared of, like the bully down the street, or a terrorist.

Which brings us back to the quote I gave you before.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

proselyte = religious convert btw(I had to look it up my first time).

Why would he be getting onto the pharisees for doing that? Obviously he is saying they are dedicated to doing such, as they will travel the seas to do it.

It's because it does the person no good to convert them to a religion, to indoctrinate them into your traditions and ceremonies and so forth. Because no matter how much a man will praise "Jesus", at the end of the day what matters is if they are repenting and fixing their sins. Which is done with understanding, not dogma.

As they are then denied understanding, they continue to make their mistakes, do not repent and are thus made into a child of hell. The entire purpose of the holy spirit is to give understanding.

And that is all you are really doing. If it was about loving your fellow man, then it would trying to help them repent for their sins, rather than converting them to a religion out of fear and their own desires to save themselves.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Every man will think he is right. This is because if you thought you were wrong, then you would change your mind. No man by choice hopes to be wrong, although some will surely do things they know is wrong. Check out all of Proverbs 9, it's the inspiration of the last supper in the NT, and will show you the meaning of it.

When it says people are able to forgive sin with the holy spirit, it's talking about being able to share the understanding so that they can see how to fix/repent for their sins/mistakes. And then by that, they are forgiven, just like the stove eye.

Really, it's all a matter of how long people will hold their fingers to the stove eye before they realize the source of the heat and remove it. How bad will things get before people wake up and start to realize what they are doing, and start to question(seek) the real truth and answers to things - which is all understanding and is available to any man who seeks it regardless of race, culture, class, sex or any other material ways men want to classify each other because they look at flesh rather than spirit.

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

One comes to the Loving Father out of love. He doesn't want us coming to him out of fear. Jesus showed us how much the Lord loved and gave us grace. It is through Christ one comes to the Father and not out of fear.



Peace,
Grandma

Did you miss my earlier post where I said this:

"I'm not using fear, Hell is "scary" because it was intended to be scary. The love of Jesus Christ promotes salvation, not fear.

No man or woman is saved because of fear, or "fire insurance" so to speak. this thread and video is intended to change minds of folks, even some Christians I said in the OP, who do not believe in a literal Hell."


It appears you haven't read all my posts grandma, but thank you for your contribution.

reply to post by badmedia


No, you are incorrect, if you READ my OP the "non-believers" is a statement of the NON-believers in a LITERAL HELL. Not addressed no non-believers in Christ.

You can plainly see in my OP that is is ALSO addressed to Christians who don't believe in a literal Hell.

So your assumption that it's addressed to "non-believers" in Jesus Christ is wrong. It's to anyone, Christians included, who do not believe there is a literal physical place called "Hell".

Re-read my OP.

Oh my, I made an error, I was thinking of my "sister thread" I started on ATS, in the "conspiracies in Religion" forum where I talked about the Christians who do not believe in a literal Hell, here is a portion of the OP in that thread I was referring to:

Many people do not believe that there exists a "real" physical Hell. Even some born again Christians believe in "Annihilationism" (God ends the lost people's eternal existence) or "Universalism" (all are eventually saved after torment for a period of time), but the Word of God teaches much differently.

My apologies, that's my mistake, there are many self proclaimed Christians who also do not believe in a literal Hell as well.

ATS Thread

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by badmedia

 

No, you are incorrect, if you READ my OP the "non-believers" is a statement of the NON-believers in a LITERAL HELL. Not addressed no non-believers in Christ.

You can plainly see in my OP that is is ALSO addressed to Christians who don't believe in a literal Hell.

So your assumption that it's addressed to "non-believers" in Jesus Christ is wrong. It's to anyone, Christians included, who do not believe there is a literal physical place called "Hell".

Re-read my OP.

Sorry, but just because you include Christians in it, doesn't mean you aren't promoting fear. In the case of Christians, it would be just a matter of trying to "keep them in line".

Plus, the people today aren't even making choices that would determine if they went to hell or not. The only people who need to worry about any punishment at all in such a way would be the wicked. And the wicked are those who know the truth, but turn their backs on it while hiding it from others for their own personal gain. Most people you are trying to scare are just people who are poor in spirit, not knowing or understanding the truth. And those people are blessed and need not fear any of this BS you are pushing.

Because when the truth and understanding does come to those who are poor in spirit, they will accept it and follow it. Thus, they are then able to see clearly and they will do good. Evil only need deceive good people to get them to do bad things or follow the wrong path. Those who are truly evil/wicked can know the truth and still do what they do.

So, everyone is giving the truth before the end, and it is what they do at that point that matters, much so more than now. Now is mostly the lesson of good and evil, and so we see/have evil. Only those who reject the truth at that point, the same as the wicked of today, are the only ones who would suffer at all.

However, if you read the actual descriptions of what that is all about, it's that they will not exist at all, aka death. That is all the father would do, kill the soul. The hell people create here on earth by their choices is another story.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I don't understand how some Christians can't to see how utterly repulsive this is to a non-believer. It doesn't make me want to worship your God, but run far, far away from him and not have anything to do with him.

This is, from a non-Christian PoV, similar to having God act as the Godfather(no pun intended) making an offer you can't refuse; and comes off as extortion rather than "love."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, when it comes to a monotheistic God I have greater faith in him than for him to run a mystical concentration camp. I have faith that if a monotheistic God exists, he will understand our failings and put us to rights as any good parent would: With swift, proportional, punishment/correction followed by forgiveness.

[edit on 25-10-2009 by Core90]

reply to post by Core90


I've never met a Christian who worshipped God because of Hell. Every Christian I have met worships God out of thankfulness in his heart that He gave His only Son to die for our sins.

So it's my opinion that your question is a loaded one, a straw man. The "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" question.

Who in their right minds worships God because of the Hell He created for satan and the fallen angels??? I've never met a Christian like that.

Are there and Christians here that will admit that they worship God because He created Hell? If so, post and I'll change my mind.


[edit on 25-10-2009 by NOTurTypical]

You know whats funny I just read parts of the book 23 minutes in hell, what the man says is pretty convincing. There is a also a book called 23 minutes in heaven, which I thought was great.

reply to post by badmedia


No, you're wrong, there are people who aren't Christians who do not believe in a place called Hell, there are also people who aren't Christians who think their good works will keep them from Hell. There are people who call themselves Christians who don't believe in Hell, and there are people who call themselves Christians who believe that Hell is only temporary.

This thread is simply the testimony of a man who claims he was given a revelation by God, it's not a NDE, he never claimed he died and doctors brought him back to life. And no one comes to the Lord out of fear, they come to Him out of Love. I believe there is a literal Hell, and if a person changes his or her mind about there actually being a Hell they still are not saved for believing it exists.

that's the only point of this thread, to offer one man's testimony about there being a "real" Hell. That's it. And it includes many people of the Christian faith who don't believe as well.

The matters of "salvation" and "worshiping God" are valuable topics to discuss, but they have nothing to do with there being a physical, real Hell or not.

Putting aside the obvious fact that this bloke just had a bit of a scary dream, as an atheist, I'll be going to this place when I die for no other reason that I don't find the evidence for god/jesus to be that convincing?

Is that really what you're saying? And yet you consider this to be a loving god?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You sound like a politician. Making excuses and trying to spin bad things as being good. Hell is constantly used by Christians to promote fear and as a way to get more converts. It serves no other purpose than to scare people, period.

Aside from that, I don't care what excuses you make. You can keep on believing whatever you want.

btw, I am not a Christian, and you couldn't pay me to become one either. I'll take knowledge of god over religion any day of the week.

Hosea 6: 6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Yeah the concept of a hell really seems at odds with a so called 'loving god'. It's hard to believe that you'll be sent there for all eternity based on your actions over a few, short years on earth. I wouldn't want my worst enemy to spend all eternity in such a place, yet this God seemingly needs some kind of retribution. Seems so... medieval.

Most NDE's I've heard about are usually positive experiences, not all this hell stuff.

[edit on 25-10-2009 by Internet Explorer]

reply to post by Internet Explorer


Yes, God is Love, perfect Love.

However God is also Justice. Perfect Justice.

Gos is also wrath, and perfect wrath against all sin.

God is all these things. God out of His love also provided a ticket out of His perfect judgment and His perfect wrath against sin.

It's a free gift to any man or woman who asks for it. That's the fruit of His perfect love.. a free gift of His mercy.