Duct Tape: Proof of Moon Hoax? Maybe!!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yeah -- I re-worded my post as to not directly blame Exuberant1 for the original cropped photo.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by ngchunter

 

In all fairness (can't believe I just wrote that!) to Exuberant....HE didn't do the cropping.

Fair enough, I was not aware of that. Who did, out of curiosity? They're clearly lying with their images.

reply to post by ngchunter


NGC, unfortunately Exubie doesn't always source his stuff....

...but, based on the captioning, I'm guessing it's from one of the myriad of "hoax" sites out there in the 'net-scape realm....

Originally posted by ngchunter
Fair enough, I was not aware of that. Who did, out of curiosity? They're clearly lying with their images.

It looks like something from Jack White. I couldn't find those exact images on the site, but I know I've seen them before somewhere.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by jra]

reply to post by jra


Interesting, thanks JRA. Some of the authors of the website are also David Percy and Mary Bennett. I thought White was a true believer, if deluded. I can see Percy and Bennett as a con team though. Maybe all three of them are fully aware of their deception, who knows.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by ngchunter]

In no way am I saying this is "Definitive" proof... I'm just putting up some more items that I have found. Come to your own conclusion... If you don't think this documentation is good enough, come up with your own evidence to prove otherwise.

Tape that is used by NASA in the high vacuum of space...
Kapton Tape Wikipedia
Thermal Properties of Kapton Tape
PDF Memo from NASA: Outgassing of non-metalic material

Materials for use in a vacuum

Look at the bottom of page# 1... 5.2.1 "High Vacuum Materials"
Hints: Working in a Vacuum

However, metalized and aluminum tapes used by professionals are still often called "duct tapes".

Source - Wikipedia: Duct Tape

Originally posted by x2Strongx
In no way am I saying this is "Definitive" proof... I'm just putting up some more items that I have found. Come to your own conclusion... If you don't think this documentation is good enough, come up with your own evidence to prove otherwise.

PDF Memo from NASA: Outgassing of non-metalic material

How would outgassing apply to adhesive on duct tape but not the adhesive on kapton tape?

However, metalized and aluminum tapes used by professionals are still often called "duct tapes".

Source - Wikipedia: Duct Tape

So you're saying that they casually referred to the tape used on STS-114 as duct tape when it's really kapton tape, but the same standard of evidence doesn't apply to apollo? I don't get it.

Adhesive on Duct tape is different than the adhesive on Kapton tape...

Kapton uses a silicone adhesive...
Use of Silicone Adhesives in Space: PDF

Duct tape uses a rubber compound... The problem with this is it doesn't meet the NASA "Outgassing" specs...
Rubber:
- TML = 1.74%
NASA specs: Cannot exceed 1.0%

TCVML = .90%
NASA specs: Cannot exceed .10%
Source

So you're saying that they casually referred to the tape used on STS-114 as duct tape when it's really kapton tape, but the same standard of evidence doesn't apply to apollo? I don't get it.

Like I said come to your own conclusions... I'm sure you will be on here right away in an attempt to derail this. I'm just simply that MHO is that something doesn't add up.

No way to know for sure unless someone actually puts duct tape to the test in a high vacuum setting with UV radiation and see how the story holds up. Everything I have seen on the internet is that it's a big "NO NO" to use duct tape in a high vacuum setting and kapton tape along with other material that is being used hasn't been around long enough to be used on the Apollo landing.

Originally posted by x2Strongx
Adhesive on Duct tape is different than the adhesive on Kapton tape...

Kapton uses a silicone adhesive...
Use of Silicone Adhesives in Space: PDF

Duct tape uses a rubber compound... The problem with this is it doesn't meet the NASA "Outgassing" specs...
Rubber:
- TML = 1.74%
NASA specs: Cannot exceed 1.0%

You're telling me that a .84 difference in outgassing means you couldn't possibly construct a tool for temporary use or hold a broken fender panel in place for only 1 hour? Not buying it. It may not be up to spec, but that doesn't also rule out the possibility of its temporary use 100%. As I said before, the evidence that it was used in apollo is no better than the evidence it was used on STS-114. Which brings us to...

Like I said come to your own conclusions... I'm sure you will be on here right away in an attempt to derail this. I'm just simply that MHO is that something doesn't add up.

Like I said, your quote about duct tape being used to describe any kind of industrial adhesive tape could just as easily apply to your own links about its use in apollo, yet you selective choose to only apply it to shuttle missions.

No way to know for sure unless someone actually puts duct tape to the test in a high vacuum setting with UV radiation and see how the story holds up.

And drive around in a car inside the vacuum chamber so that the duct tape randomly faces towards or away from the radiation source.

kapton tape along with other material that is being used hasn't been around long enough to be used on the Apollo landing.

Oh really? LOL! The whole front end of the apollo command module was COVERED in Kapton tape! You can even buy a piece of the stuff that was actually flown on the Apollo 11 command module:
www.collectspace.com...
So again I ask, why do you assume the quotes about STS-114 duct tape were actually Kapton tape, yet you do not make the same assumption about Apollo tape?

[edit on 29-10-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by x2Strongx


Oh, gawd!!!

Yes, of course the unplanned fender repair needed while they were filming on the sound stage in the desert used duct tape, because no one thought that forty years later some internet sleuth would figure it out!!!

"Let's do a re-take, Jim"..."Nah, no one will know..."

Of all the crazy and unsubstantiated Moon landing "hoax" theories that have been put out, this one stands alone.

Does my sarcasm show how ludicrous this idea is?

Just to summarize: Is "Duct Tape: Proof of Moon Hoax?"

That is the title, up above.

Now, class...can anyone see how illogical this is??? Because, IF a 'hoax', then they would not have had to use the duct tape in the first place!!!!

Capice?

reply to post by weedwhacker


Okay your right... your right... I should have just kept this to myself and not explored this subject matter at all.

Sorry to have wasted everyone's time exploring what I thought was a "Plausible" idea when it came to this subject. I personally do feel more enlightened on this subject matter because it forced me to look up a lot of sources to come to my conclusion... but now I know that once someone derails or debunks my theory I should just let it go... I guess everyone shouldn't pursue any type of conspiracy theories just because if it hasn't been uncovered yet... there's nothing to uncover.

(Hear the sarcasm in my post?)

reply to post by x2Strongx


Look, no offense, but honestly what is the difference between the evidence that regular home depot duct tape was used on Apollo 17 vs the evidence it was used to prepare a makeshift EVA tool for STS-114? The only difference is the apparent plausibility of the two missions. Few people question STS-114, so it gets ignored. That's bias, nothing more.

reply to post by ngchunter


I think the problem is that there is no visual reference to prove that it was actually used on a "Make-Shift" hacksaw. On the Apollo mission, you actually have a photo where you can point and say... "Look it's duct tape!"

Personally, that's why I discarded it all together...

Originally posted by x2Strongx
reply to post by ngchunter

 

I think the problem is that there is no visual reference to prove that it was actually used on a "Make-Shift" hacksaw.

So you think the story about STS-114 was just what, made up? Why would they lie about that, it makes no sense whatsoever! I'm sure if you had been watching NASA TV at the time you could have seen the makeshift hacksaw being prepared and brought with the spacewalker into the airlock for the EVA, but sadly I didn't have the foresight at the time 4 years ago to record it in case someone doubted the story.

Personally, that's why I discarded it all together...

I think your goalpost is unreasonable, but maybe that's just me. Here's a ground photo demonstrating the technique that engineers put together on the fly using a ground copy of the duct taped-together hacksaw:
cache1.asset-cache.net...
I also found this old link to an image of the actual flight hardware, but since it's 4 years old the link appears to be broken:
forum.zgeek.com...

reply to post by ngchunter


I see your point somewhat... But, MHO putting up a link that shows an engineer with a make-shift hacksaw while not in a vacuum environment doesn't really argue the point... but, again... that's just my opinion.

Also... if you knew the link is broken, then what's the point on putting it on your post?

Take a look at these links if you could... Do a search in the document for gray tape. Maybe this is another kind of tape all together instead of every day duct tape.
Source:

16ga. Socket14. Connect 16ga. Socket/Socket Test Jumper Lead betweenPin -p of connector P9589 behind Panel A6L, Pin J on end of Vac. DC PWR Cable. Secure jumper leads and cable with gray tape.15. Connect 16/22ga. Socket/Pin Test Jumper Lead between pin J of IFM DC PWR Cable, Socket 24 on connector J6 of MDM PL1. Securejumper leads and cable with gray tape

Also... on this page: Source:

Duct tape pieces can be removed and used again for joining segments. White duct tape can be substituted for gray tape to improve the appearance of the arms or one inch wide masking tape can be used.

Maybe it's different kind of tape all together... Maybe this was used in the Apollo mission along with STS-114... I don't know. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Originally posted by x2Strongx
reply to post by ngchunter

 

I see your point somewhat... But, MHO putting up a link that shows an engineer with a make-shift hacksaw while not in a vacuum environment doesn't really argue the point... but, again... that's just my opinion.

It's the same thing they put together in orbit, which is why he was demonstrating it for the media. Why would NASA be lying to the media about this unless STS-114 was a hoax? Otherwise, the same narrow view of the "lie" should also apply to Apollo.

Also... if you knew the link is broken, then what's the point on putting it on your post?

Maybe it was only a temporary breakage and will start working, you never know. My main point was just that because photos aren't easily found now doesn't mean no one ever saw proof it existed.

As far as I know, gray tape is what NASA calls duct tape. It's definately stowed on ISS for emergency uses lol:
www.spaceref.com... (instructions to duct tape a lisa novak-ed astronaut)
Cernan also refered to the tape he used on apollo 17 as gray tape:
history.nasa.gov...
He also calls it gray tape in the NASA link I think you provided earlier.


[edit on 30-10-2009 by ngchunter]

Here's a close-up photo of the hacksaw from STS-114 taken from inside the shuttle. (photo (hires 1.1mb). I can't find any video or photos of it out in space. It was brought with them for EVA 3 to cut the gap fillers that were sticking out from the Shuttles heat shield, but they came out easily by hand, so they didn't need to use it.

reply to post by jra


Thanks JRA, that's exactly the kind of image I was looking for. I must have missed it in searching through the 114 archives.

Originally posted by x2Strongx
Something has been bothering me for the past week since I saw the Mythbusters show on Duct Tape. A video and claims that is was used on the moon Rover is all over the internet along with NASA's own website. I believe ATS own CEO started a website with this very claim regarding Duct Tape...

What concerns me is that I have found sources that says duct tape just doesn't work in the vacuum of space. And, along with that... duct tapes melting point is at a lot lower temperature than it is on the surface of the moon during day light...

Why wouldn't duct tape work in space? It was used in the Apollo 12 mission to circulate air.

Watch Apollo 12 videos

Duct tape on the moon would get hot, there is no carrier of heat and it is highly reflective, it simply wouldn't have enough solar exposure to get hot if what you say how it was used in exposure is true, you need air to transfer ambient hear, and it was the morning on the moon anyway. White tape would also take a long time to heat, due to its reflective properties.

The lunar surface gets hot, there is no temperature in space because there is no air. You need to absorb the solar rays to absorb the heat, silver and white reflects a great deal of this for a while, they were only there a couple of days, earth days, not lunar days.