Duct Tape: Proof of Moon Hoax? Maybe!!!

Originally posted by x2Strongx
225 and 250 degrees is still above the breaking point of the tape. They only tested the tape up to 200 Degrees yes, but they said that they had 50% leakage at this point!!!

The 250F is for the surface temperature of the Moon at high noon. Just because the surface of the Moon can reach that temperature doesn't mean everything else does. Different materials absorb and radiate heat and different rates. Plus the tape wouldn't have been in direct Sunlight the entire time either.

Holding up a bumper in 1/6 the gravity of Earth... maybe... but remember the reason why they taped on the fender was because of the rooster-tails from the dust. I doubt that it could take that much punishment.

How much punishment would it have taken though? The rovers top speed was 13km/h (8mph) and I don't believe they would have driven it at top speed the entire time.

I came across this in wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org...
The fender extension on the Apollo 17 LRV broke when accidentally bumped by Eugene Cernan with a hammer handle. The crew taped the extension back in place, but due to the dusty surfaces, the tape did not adhere and the extension was lost after about one hour of driving, causing the astronauts to be covered with dust. For the second EVA, a replacement "fender" was made with some EVA maps, duct tape, and a pair of clamps from inside the Lunar Module - nominally intended for the moveable overhead light. This repair was later undone so that the clamps could be brought back inside for launch. The maps were brought back and are now on display at the National Air and Space Museum. The abrasion from the dust is evident on some portions of the makeshift fender.

So it also looks like they used some clamps to help hold it in place and didn't rely strictly on the tape.

If the tape doesn't reflect the light, rays etc... wouldn't it heat up as well?

Well if it's the same silvery grey tape we have here, it would certainly reflect some of the light/heat, plus as I said before, it wouldn't have always been sitting in direct sunlight.

Originally posted by radarloveguy
Something has always confused me about the moon rover
if weight and space are prime concerns aboard a lunar lander ,
how could you take a car....? ...and golf clubs....?

Yes weight was very critical for the design of the Lunar Module. Which is why the Lunar Rover was carefully designed to be as light weight as possible. There is a good 5 part episode of "Moon machines" on youtube that focuses on the development of the Lunar rover. Here's a link to part 1

As for the golf club. On Apollo 14, Alan Shepard brought 3 golf balls and just the head of a six iron club (not the whole club). He strapped the head to the bottom of a sampling tool and used that. No other missions did this to my knowledge.

Originally posted by ufoptics
After viewing your picture I noticed the tires on the rover. They look like regular tires, which I assume are filled with air?

They aren't regular tires. Far from it. They are a woven wire mesh. Here are some close-ups.

AS15-82-11203
AS17-143-21933
AS15-82-11202
AS17-135-20542

Plus this was not regular off the shelf duct tape that you or I can buy for 3 dollars a roll.

This duct tape was sold to NASA so it probably cost a couple thousand dollars a roll!

Originally posted by IAttackPeople

Originally posted by ufoptics
After viewing your picture I noticed the tires on the rover. They look like regular tires, which I assume are filled with air?

The rover tires are actually wire mesh reinforced with internal ribbing. No air.

you get points (marked somewhere in the universe) for knowing this. lol

S+F.

curious the picture of the tape job was. I mean so nice and neat. I wonder how the astronaut had the dexterity to peel off duct tape with those gloves. I mean they had difficulty just pressing a huge shutter button to snap off pictures yes?

The video in the OP shows him peeling, and tearing a strip of tape with ease. Very odd.

I suppose he was using a brand new roll that had some sort of tab to make peeling that first strip off easier though.

Also special "Nasa" duct tape, has to be looked into as well.

But I don't think this is the "smoking gun"

Weedwhacker pretty much "whacked" this one.

good thread though.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by Nola213]

Here's the solution I came up with
1.Figure out how to replicate the scenario here on earth then you will find out if it's a possible hoax or it's the possible truth.

Originally posted by Nola213
I mean they had difficulty just pressing a huge shutter button to snap off pictures yes?

No, not at all. I recall reading that some times the astronauts would inadvertently take photos. The camera's were specially modified for the astronauts. Why would they make it hard for them to use?

Originally posted by radarloveguy
Something has always confused me about the moon rover
if weight and space are prime concerns aboard a lunar lander ,
how could you take a car....? ...and golf clubs....?

The car folded up quite nicely to fit inside one of the lander's bays. The "golf club" was a re-purposed sample collector rod to which Al attached a golf head - the small golf head was the only item he needed to bring up as a personal item, not a whole club.
-JRA beat me to the punch, sorry JRA.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by ngchunter]

Couldn't it have simply been a generic use of a phrase for a non-generic material? I.E. - Xerox for copies, Coke for any brown cola, etc? He could have been talking about the "Magnesium enhanced zero gravity ultra adhesive fabric reinforced polymer fastening material" and instead just said "duct tape".

reply to post by shrike071


I kinda agree, I mean we know for a fact that they used aluminized Kapton tape all over the outside of the command module and Kapton film within the space suits, it might make sense that they also brought some non-aluminized Kapton for the astronauts to use in a pinch. Kapton is much more temperature resistant than Duct Tape:
en.wikipedia.org...
I've seen no definitive evidence here that this was true Duct Tape and not something based on Kapton. Nonetheless, it's also irrelevant since we know it only worked for an hour anyway, showing it to be an imperfect and very temporary solution. Because radiative and direct transfers are the only way heat can travel in a vacuum, we'd expect any kind of tape on the rover to heat up gradually. The maximum surface temperature of the moon is therefore irrelevant; such a temperature is dependent on the thermal properties of the regolith itself, and the regolith would be largely isolated from the tape. Discovery's crew was also said to have used "duct tape" to put together a tool for use on an EVA (www.octanecreative.com... - same link as before I think, notice the paragraph "Duct Tape Aids Shuttle Mission"). If duct tape used in the vacuum of space were definitive evidence of a hoax, STS-114 would have to be a hoax. I know this is not true as I saw STS-114 on orbit myself.

My video of STS-114 in orbit, bear in mind the camera I had 4 years ago was garbage compared to what I use now (same telescope though - as with computers, the weakest link in the chain determines the quality). Still, the "L" shape of the orbiter and its tail can be seen:


I think the bottom line here is that duct tape may be appropriate for very short-term use in the vacuum of space, but it is unsuitable for long term use. Apollo's broken rover fender only supports that conclusion, it doesn't fly in the face of it.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by ngchunter]

I wouldn't dare to walk the moon with duct tape holding the joints together.
Maybe it was a simulation on a set.

reply to post by 0bserver1


Would you please be so kind as to read the thread, and NOT just the title, before leaving what you probably thought was a "cute" comment??

Because, it wasn't "cute", nor was it particularly funny.

Care to contribute something useful?

reply to post by damwel


But it doesn't have an atmosphere. By the way in the mythbusters about the moon landing it said the flag fluttered because of the vacuum. The moon landing hoax is about to be proven!

reply to post by Nosred

By the way in the mythbusters about the moon landing it said the flag fluttered because of the vacuum.

What??? I suggest you watch the "MythBusters" again...more carefully.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I'm talking about a different episode. They did an entire episode on whether or not the moon landing was a hoax.

reply to post by Nosred


The flag fluttered because, surprise surprise, vibrations can still travel through material even in a vacuum. An astronaut bouncing near the pole or physically shaking it while trying to plant it will cause vibrations to travel through the rod and into the flag producing a "waving" motion. What does that have to do with Duct Tape in space though, something even the shuttle crews have used on verified real missions?

Reading more up on this subject, I found that they made a "Make-shift" fender out of a map... Not really sure what the map was made out of but, I would think paper... even laminated paper wouldn't work at this temperature as well. I will look around and see if I can find a source for this.

Here we go... Turns out the "Make-Shift" fender made from the map made it a whole 15 hours, and it was made out of "laminated paper"... Yeah, this should hold up on the moon.

Here's a quote and Source:
Duct Tape on Moon

When Cernan and Schmitt woke up the next morning, mission control explained how they should tape four laminated maps together in the shape of the missing fender. "Just call me the little old fender maker," said Cernan as he tore off pieces of gray tape. This time the taping was done inside the relatively dust-free confines of the lunar lander, so the duct tape retained its usual stickiness. Clamped to the moonbuggy, the new fender held for the rest of the mission, which included another 15 hours of EVAs.

Also on this source... You will see that it was good old fashion "Duct Tape" not... any metalic, heat resistant tape...

Cernan: "And I hate to say it, but I'm going to have to take some time to try … to get that fender back on. Jack, is the tape under my seat, do you remember?" (He's referring to a roll of ordinary, gray duct tape.)

Originally posted by x2Strongx
Also on this source... You will see that it was good old fashion "Duct Tape" not... any metalic, heat resistant tape...

Why wouldn't paper work? And does this mean you think STS-114 was hoaxed? The tape only worked for an hour before clamps had to be used, heat transfer takes longer in a vacuum by nature, so duct tape is STILL used on EVA when necessary. For that matter, so is paper:
neatorama.cachefly.net...
The thermal environment of LEO is equivalent to that of working on the moon as far as these objects need be concerned.

What about the "Out-Gassing" of the adhesive?

Even finger prints can cause a problem in the space vacuum, I'm not entirely sure the adhesive would hold up to this.


Am I saying that we haven't been to the moon... NO

What I am saying... is what we saw on TV in 1970 wasn't actually on the moon. This is a theory. I am not stating this as a fact. I'm still doing some searching on the internet to find more information to back up this theory.

Originally posted by x2Strongx
What about the "Out-Gassing" of the adhesive?

What I am saying... is what we saw on TV in 1970 wasn't actually on the moon.

Doesn't matter, it's not like it was a lasting solution. And I've said it once I've said it a million times, since it's something still used today then it couldn't have been part of a hoax, a conspiracy, or a coverup. It doesn't matter whether your "alternative" theory is that it was a hoax or simply that the footage and story we saw were fake; both reject the original footage for false reasons. The alternative presented after the rejection is irrelevant. Both would have to reject shuttle missions for the same reasons if intellectual honesty were present. Are you saying the story given to us about STS-114 was fake?

[edit on 26-10-2009 by ngchunter]