If you can imagine it, it exists.

Originally posted by deadlysponge

by this logic, we're being imagined by someone or something else somewhere else.

by this logic, then nothing is in fact real.

everything would then be just figments of arbitrary imaginations.

Right so far.

thats chaos.

Yeah, it's also everything else, which you happen to conveniently neglect.

what if something is yet to be imagined? does it not exist?

Time is also illusion so everything was effectively "imagined" at the same instant, which happens to be right "now."

Originally posted by afterschoolfun

Originally posted by Irishwolf
reply to post by afterschoolfun

 

damn...

never thought of that.



But then again using the same logic.

Q: What is nothing?

A: It is the absence of everything and anything

Q: So nothing is something, it is the absense of everything and anything right? So technically nothing exists because nothingness in itself is something?

A: yeah... but

I dont think that really works but you see my point.

well I wouldn't trap myself like that. I would answer:

I don't know what "nothing" is and neither do you. It's not pure black, or pure white, its nothing no colors, no smell, no sense data whatsoever. If you can describe a void of description to me then you have found a paradox (and a new one too, get it published!)

[edit on 22-10-2009 by afterschoolfun]

Nothing is Everything. THE point of singularity where there is no observer.

reply to post by bsbray11


No offense, i knew at the very begin what kind of jokes i could meet here so i wont take anything here seriously. And the pokemon example is at your level, no need to use more subtle examples .

That is perfectly true, too, but I think that is where you come in, my friend. No offense. It's just that there is a time and place for everything, you know.

So do you. I never thought human kind could be something else than a bad joke . I dont have shame to admit and accept that reality. But you?

I just imagined myself with a 13 inch penis...

Oh well...I guess this thread was just wishful thinking. I guess if we consider string theory as an option, somewhere in a different dimension, I probably have that 13 inch penis, but, its probably in a dimension where the norm is 2 feet.

Anyway...I'm out!!!

reply to post by AnotherSon


ok i concur taxes only need to be payed in some form if we want to live in a stable and civil society - death indeed is an illusion, i can even explain why....

The many possible worlds that exist for every action all exist, we all know about cats in boxes and that if no one knows it isn't a fact - well how about this, i have three options - the lift could fall, it could work well or it could explode. These three things all happen, however as i'm killed in two of them i can't know what happens next thus the only one in which i am able to acknoledge its existence is the one in which i survive, thus i always survive.

cogito ergo sum, i think therefore i am - indeed we can only ever know that we do indeed think, no one that asked the question do i think has ever been able to honestly give a no answer. Stop thinking and you aren't aware that you don't exist, thus that which is us - our thinking ability will always carry on thinking because it can't do anything else.

of course i could test this theory with a tall building but i don't think that's a good idea - hehe maybe thats what proves it? because i can't think it's a good idea because then i would die and i can't die because then i couldn't think and thus i alaways have to think its a bad idea, a form of positive determanism.

We've seen quantom physics debating weather cern is doomed due to future ripples, is it that it's impossible to collide hadrons with such force because it would end the world and thus it's an experiment that can never be done- maybe a thousand years later i'll still be alive thinking about how crazy it is that no one in a thousand years has ever mananaged to colide hadrons, how implausably lucky i've been and how dull life eternal really is.

Alas this doesn't help you, or rather my knowledge of you, because other people can die to me - only he who holds the I is imortal, in their own timeline they're still going strong though - a comforting thought at least.

while this theory is clearly nonsense no one can ever prove it false or know it to be not true, for any time you can think to answer the question the statement is proved right.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
a time / dimension travaler once told me that the most important piece of logic in understanding the many possible worlds that could and do exist is that you need an egg to break an egg.

Not everything is possible, right now i couldn't break an egg because i don't have one - the next action which i take at any time could be almost anything, i could break my laptop or i could lick it - i certainly can't break an egg though.

This then leads of course to the simple logic that only viable worlds are possible, the pokemon world can be imagined but as it breaks thermodynamics we can assume that it doesn't ever exist outside fantasy. If there is any difference between fantasy and reality is a complex issue, it all boils down to cogitio ergo sum - all we can know is we are asking the question.

the most important thing to remember is that we thinking beings are the only real decider of fate - we craft the future by our actions now, only with clarity of vision and honest understanding can we hope to do a good job.

Do you understand that you are comprised of atoms? Atoms are 99.999..% space. So, seeing that you scientifically don't even exist, why would you rely upon your 5 senses to describe Truth? I love "scientists" that refer to the 95% of DNA they don't understand as "junk DNA." I can't see it, touch it, lick it, smell it, hear it... it doesn't exist. Hell, we can only see .0005% of the universe with our sense of site. We created tools that see infrared, etc so now it exists. Do we really want to rely on our senses alone?

reply to post by AnotherSon


Thats a choice. We all have the free will to decide to follow a path of hedonism and materialism. ("Hiding" from the Supernal) We also have the free will to pursue the light and no longer be prisoners in the dark. No one should be forced down a path they don't choose.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by AnotherSon

 

cogito ergo sum, i think therefore i am - indeed we can only ever know that we do indeed think, no one that asked the question do i think has ever been able to honestly give a no answer. Stop thinking and you aren't aware that you don't exist, thus that which is us - our thinking ability will always carry on thinking because it can't do anything else.

...while this theory is clearly nonsense no one can ever prove it false or know it to be not true, for any time you can think to answer the question the statement is proved right.

I love René however limited his arguments are. I forget the philosopher that came 200 years later that said, "I am Aware that I think therefore am." Who is this watcher that observes mind and body? Was it opium, ale, or mental illness? Anyone being honest Knows what he's saying. Those moments of I AM. Sitting on a beach, waking in the night, walking in a forest, looking into a child's eye... those moments that showcase something other than just mind and body - you know your moment(s). Now try to quantifying that. Obsurd, but it doesn't make it any less True. Buddha, Jesus of Nazereth, and Neitchze tried, but I digress. Think and you are. POOF!

reply to post by AnotherSon


wait a second, i tell you a time travaler told me this crazy moontalk and you call me a scientist? haha nice.

also keep up with sagan, scientists have't said the 99.9r is empty space for decades now - they think its dark matter and other strange stuff.

also science doesn't say 'junk DNA' thats just silly, its waste dna. We do know what it does, much of it, the vitamin c encoding section for example - cat's and dogs don't get scurvy because they make their own vitamin c, the dna which would do that in us has an error encoded in it a massive chunk of 'waste dna' copied from further along has been inserted breaking the protean model and meaning we need to ingest vitain c from fruit or flesh. No problem when you live in the jungle of africa of course and fruit is your main diet, thus it wasn't noticed by evolution and it was passed on.

Now back to my point, you can't break an egg if you don't have an egg.

it's a universal truth, i'm sure you just don't like the sound of thermodynamics but it also is a universal truth - its a logical truth which rises above the mortal realm.

reply to post by genma


Lol ok Bonnie Toye....

I think what people are trying to say here is that if you're going to post such a large theory that would rapidly change the way we think, then give it some thought first. Maybe do a little research to try to back up your argument. Enlighten us how you came to this conclusion and then maybe we'll give it some thought.

Your theory is not a new one by any means and has been researched by others. The best selling DVD, "The Secret" and the "Laws of Attraction" were probably based on this theory and the people trying to say that the "Laws of Attraction" exists have put much more time and effort in researching this theory.

Basically, from reading your post I can conclude that you were sitting around browsing the forums or something when an idea hit you. A common idea that most of us have probably had in our lifetime. Generally after watching the movie Peter Pan as children. "What if everything I could imagine could become reality?". Then you thought about it more and came here to post the theory. Problem is that ATS consists of critical thinkers and some scientific minds which means we're going to try to kill your theory the instant you post it if you don't give us something more then a childhood theory.

So, somewhere I'm a Jedi Knight in Malibu married to Sandra Bullock, that's awesome!

reply to post by traderjack


Of course! How else would you have been able to think up such a bizarre thing in the universe?

reply to post by Hyde70


well true to the spirit of ATS i have provided my theory, its sound and logical and draws on everone from science, phillosophy, spiritiualism, logic and mathmatics - plus i told you a travaler of time and dimensions revealed it was the universal truth to me, as plato describes universal truth when he called a uneducated peasent over and they watched as he reasoned his way to understanding a euclidian triangle without any help - i was able to deduce for myself that this is indeed true and so can you.

again we turn to plato, he explained that a chair has three forms - first the chair we make, that which is solid and with form - before that the chair we want to make, the idea in our mortal brain - before that comes the chair ideal, that which has and will always exist in some higher realm - the concept of a chair.

This higher realm is metaphysical in nature, its the true fabric of the universe - when we think about certain concepts we are opening out mind to this realm, higher mather forinstance and logic, it will and can only be true that to break an egg you need to have an egg - one must follow the other. You can only get as much out as you put in - it has to be true. rwo plus two equals four - just as orwell said, some things are just and always will be true.

Whatever words you use or however you try to confuse the issue, if you have two apples then get two more apples you will end up with four apples - twice the first ammount, if you split these between four poeple fairly you will always get one each. These things can't be changed or doubted, much like our existence - the only thing we can ever know is that we are.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by AnotherSon

 

wait a second, i tell you a time travaler told me this crazy moontalk and you call me a scientist? haha nice.

also keep up with sagan, scientists have't said the 99.9r is empty space for decades now - they think its dark matter and other strange stuff.

also science doesn't say 'junk DNA' thats just silly, its waste dna. We do know what it does, much of it, the vitamin c encoding section for example - cat's and dogs don't get scurvy because they make their own vitamin c, the dna which would do that in us has an error encoded in it a massive chunk of 'waste dna' copied from further along has been inserted breaking the protean model and meaning we need to ingest vitain c from fruit or flesh. No problem when you live in the jungle of africa of course and fruit is your main diet, thus it wasn't noticed by evolution and it was passed on.

Now back to my point, you can't break an egg if you don't have an egg.

it's a universal truth, i'm sure you just don't like the sound of thermodynamics but it also is a universal truth - its a logical truth which rises above the mortal realm.

True enough, thermodynamics... nothing is created or destroyed. So scientifically speaking, you are eternal. Unfortunatley it's not all that it's cracked up to be.

I also love that junk dna has been reclassified to waste dna. Jargon, how did we ever get by without it.

Regarding the egg... it's not an egg. In your example it was a laptop.

I was just reminded of something from my childhood. Back in '75 my family had to leave for a party in the evening. The Wonderful World of Disney had just started so my siblings and I were bummed. In the micro-bus my brother and I pontificated of a TV watch. Very fanciful. My father, an engineer right-minded fellow, said that the notion was obsurd, because you could not shrink a tube down small enough to rest on the wrist. Get it?

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I just imagined myself with a 13 inch penis...

Oh well...I guess this thread was just wishful thinking. I guess if we consider string theory as an option, somewhere in a different dimension, I probably have that 13 inch penis, but, its probably in a dimension where the norm is 2 feet.

Anyway...I'm out!!!

Ha ha yeah, but the size doesn't matter, what matters is that yours is the biggest. See, you're doing it wrong.

I believe everything is possible, but everything also has a certain relative chance I'd guess. Chances are sometimes a trillion to one yet it happens, many times. Our perception is too feeble to even comprehend our own possibilities.

A monkey pooping ice cream with chocolate topping and a strawberry on top? Not impossible, just very small chances of that happening. For example, as we speak some alien mad scientist may have concocted such a monkey. Imagine that... he might be pooping ice creams as we speak. With a strawberry on top. Ice cream pooping monkey....

Now, don't be so open minded your brains fall out. I can bet my life you don't have such a monkey in your closet even though you think you do. Now imagine the headline "Committed suicide when found ice cream pooping monkey".

[edit on 22-10-2009 by SassyCat]

reply to post by AnotherSon


no in my example i said i COULD break my laptop, i couldn't break an egg - i don't have an egg to break, see what i'm saying.

im not sure if you're suggesting eternity or thermodynamic isn;t all its cracked up to be but yes thermodynamics is flawless and perfect in everyway - unless you know of a flaw science doesn't? existence is suffering.

as for the extra dna, basically it doesn't matter what you call it, i was making a joke as it goes but whatever how about - Pseudogenes and Retrotransposons - the point was, as i followed it - we do know why and what that 'junk dna' is all about - it's actually dna which was useful in our evolution and got made obsolete or it's random errors which didn't cause any problems so remained. It's all part of how evolution works, rather clever stuff really.

you might enjoy bill bryson 'history of nearly everything' the ebook is available on mp3 and its rather good, covers the history of the modern scientific age and explains the development of genetic theory. Or maybe some dawkins, ancestors tale is a gripping read it covers our entire evolutionary journey backwards. both would help to correct some of your misnotions on science

reply to post by AnotherSon


very true much of what we think is impossible is indeed very possible, your father was very smart and indeed a cathoderaytube would not work in a wrist watch however he didn't antisipate the invention of thin layers of transistor based emitors, thin layers of electronically acuating die or tiny liquid droplets performing chemical photoluminesance. Had he have considered the many thermodynamically available options for producing a small matrix of light i'm sure he would have agreed that it was in theory possible, if practically a million miles away.

With modern TFT, LCD and plasma screens we aren't breaking any scientifically held principles such as conservation of energy - we certainly aren't breaking any eggs we don't have.