Mix 1 retired teacher few old parts and what do get? backyard hydrogen conversion

I haven't found any evidence of Brown's Gas being a significant improvement, or even necessary for water to increase horsepower or fuel economy.

Several posters are correct that the draw of power from the alternator will counteract the additional power provided by the H2 and O2 gas after it is electrolysized.

However!!! Memarf and I have made this work in our own experiments and it would not take a lot of tinkering to make it a significant improvement.

There are two main necessities.
1. There has to be excess power in the engine. In other words, most engines have reserve power that is never used unless you are towing or climbing mountains or racing. As such, much of the horsepower is wasted, so adding an additional load from an additional alternator or a larger alternator, or some extra draw on the current, won't impact the fuel economy. This won't help much on economy cars, but it is certainly true in large trucks and cars!

2. There has to be a catalyst in the water to entice the electrolysis threshhold to be lower. Much of the internet research leaves out this step, or over generalizes it. Aluminum screen cathode and anode seem to work pretty well, as does altering the make up so that the cathode and anode are different materials. We had a lot of success with a series of alternating cylinder types for the cathode and anode.

So, I don't buy into the Brown's Gas theory, or the idea that we are getting more than we put in, but I wholeheartedly believe that the wasted horsepower from these big 6.0 and 7.0 Liter Engines that rarely get used for towing, could be harnassed as electrical output to electrolysize H2O and create H2 O2 gases that can be routed into the normal aspiration of the engine and see a real impact on fuel economy.

The impact comes from several sources.
1. The gases have a cooling effect on the air intake, and thus increase the economy and horsepower.
2. The mass of the H2 O2 and H2O vapor increase the economy as theendisnigh mentioned earlier.
3. The natural reaction and combustion of the H2 and O2 provide horsepower.
4. The natural reaction also provides a cooling effect on the engine, as this is an "endothermic" reaction instead of exothermic. the H2 and O2 want to form H2O!

I believe somebody with more technical experience than myself could actually program this into a newer vehicles ECU and let the fuel/air mixture account for the added effects, and dial back the fuel injectors, and somebody could see a very significant savings in their Ford or Chevy Truck!!

You guys actually suggesting to burn WATER, the most essential substance in human life as fuel?

Are you guys out of your minds?

Havent you thought of the ramifications of such action?


Food and water NEVER should be used as fuel to carry fat westerner asses from their home to the 5 min walk supermarketv and back.

Now electricity on the other hand... thats an abundant ressource

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Dynamitrios]

The problem with this generally is on new cars and oxygen sensors. Older vehilcles you can adjust the fuel air mixture pretty easily. try it on a car with an emissions control sensor and it will keep leaning or enriching the fuel mixture to compensate. there are bypass circuits on ebay, and also oxygen sensor extenders which can alleviate the problems. It just takes time and tinkering skills. Anyone can do it though. Plus, it looks pretty neat under the hood when your unit starts bubbling!!

Thoroughly Amazing! This is a huge "breakthrough" (if you can call it that lol) I can only imagine what this will do for the world if this gets the attention that this deserves.

Makes you think about how long Halliburton and Exxon/Mobil along with GM and other car manufacturers have kept this thing under wraps to protect their precious monopolies. Can anyone say Atlas Shrugged?

Hi guys
I also have been playing around with hydrogen or HHO for a while now and found some interesting outcomes and thoughts on what we could use this for as it is an alterative source of energy And with the planet we live on has plenty of the stuff (H2O). My first experiment was very easy to replicate, which included 10 stainless steel plates I found in my tool chest, a few nuts and bolts, a CD container turned upside, an old computer power unit which gave me 12volts @ 5amps (60 watts). All I used for electilizer was lemon juice and table salt dissolved in tap water. Hydrogen was produced although I started feeling sick after ten minutes. I think this was down to the fluoride in the tap water. After a few minor adjustments I got quite a good production going as you can see from the YouTube video (link here).

Question 1.
Why use an old internal combustion engine when the options are endless?
My thoughts on this point are why don’t we design an engine that converts rotary motion into electricity (Generator) but run it on hydrogen. With the new Neo magnets I’m sure we could make a fast burning engine (designed to run on HHO) that would generate enough electricity to run an electric car (Easier said than done you might say. There are ideas out there that could be put together and do just what I’ve said.
Also let me throw a curve ball in there, if we converted all the internal combustion engines in the world to Hydrogen powered engines what would the result be? Instead of having CO2 as the main contributor to anthropogenic global warming we would be swapping CO2 for water vapour which is just as bad as CO2. And that’s if you believe in global warming anyway.

Just my thoughts
Gareth

Originally posted by Dynamitrios
You guys actually suggesting to burn WATER, the most essential substance in human life as fuel?

Are you guys out of your minds?

Havent you thought of the ramifications of such action?

Now electricity on the other hand... thats an abundant ressource

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Dynamitrios]

I think you are out of your mind. Let's see basic chemistry. Breakdown water, you get hydrogen and oxygen. Burn hydrogen and oxygen and you get OH MY GOD! Water.

If you could reduce the amount of energy needed to breakdown the water, it could work. Now what we need are a few dozen big NUKE plants to generate cheap clean electricity and we can cut back on oil by a nice margin. It should even reduce CO2 levels. Actually it could screw the Global Warming scam. Sounds like fun.

I am a tinkerer at heart so always interested this kind of alternative subject.

I agree this should be looked at from a wider scope, not just the fuel but the engine as well.

Have you folks looked at the Wankel engine, the kind fitted to the legendry RX-7 and the recent RX-8. This engine is best described as a fuel pit lol but the design would lend well to a hydro engine.

I envisioned an hybrid engine built like an electric motor with powerful magnets which would induce and control the elctrolysis in the hydro fuel.

Another problem to factor in is mechanical loss, physics is a bitch in automotive industry so you have to rethink stuff like alternators or at least how to drive them with minimal mechanical loss from friction and the laws of physics (reptitive/cyclic motion).

Interesting stuff...

Originally posted by DaddyBare
Charles Goodwin’s converted his old 1997 Ford van to run on his homemade hydrogen gaining him a 94% gain in fuel efficiency...

death from "natural cause" countdown initiated...

Can someone explain why economic type cars can't utilize this tech properly?

reply to post by JIMC5499


If you could reduce the amount of energy needed to breakdown the water, it could work. Now what we need are a few dozen big NUKE plants to generate cheap clean electricity and we can cut back on oil by a nice margin. It should even reduce CO2 levels. Actually it could screw the Global Warming scam. Sounds like fun.

Instead of electricity how about algae, it is the fastest growing organism on the planet, it's growing produces oxygen, removes co2 and helps sort out global warming without the nuke waste. I've figured out how we can grow it at home on our roofs. It's more efficient than solar panels that only return 14% of the suns energy.

Originally posted by gareth01422
All I used for electilizer was lemon juice and table salt dissolved in tap water. Hydrogen was produced although I started feeling sick after ten minutes. I think this was down to the fluoride in the tap water.

What your problem is is that when you use salt, you are producing hydrogen gas and chlorine gas. The chlorine gas is what made you sick. I don't know if there is any problem with the lemon juice. A good, cheap and available thing to use is just plain baking soda.

reply to post by getreadyalready

I haven't found any evidence of Brown's Gas being a significant improvement, or even necessary for water to increase horsepower or fuel economy.

Brown's gas and the water system are two completely different applications.
-Brown's gas (HHO) is used primarily for its high volatility to ignite more of your fuel before it gets out of the cylinder. Remember as of now we only burn about 20% of the fuel in the cylinder.
-The water system uses an atomizer to produce a super fine mist which is introduced into the cylinder to be vaporized, not burned. Water expands 800 times it volume when vaporized. This will produce more pressure in the cylinder but doesn't nessasarally improve your mileage being that you still need the same amount of fuel to produce the amount of heat required to vaporize the water.

Several posters are correct that the draw of power from the alternator will counteract the additional power provided by the H2 and O2 gas after it is electrolysized.

-Not really. your alternator already produces more electrical power than your vehicle needs. But the question is how much extra juice can it produce? Is there another 20amps in it that I'm not using?

1. There has to be excess power in the engine. In other words, most engines have reserve power that is never used unless you are towing or climbing mountains or racing. As such, much of the horsepower is wasted, so adding an additional load from an additional alternator or a larger alternator, or some extra draw on the current, won't impact the fuel economy. This won't help much on economy cars, but it is certainly true in large trucks and cars!

I had to read this a few times for me to comprehend what you were saying. Let me see if I got this right-
Let's say you have a 5hp moter under your hood. This cute little car uses 1amp of elctricity to function. It takes 4hp to push this cute thing down the road and 1hp to turn the alternator to produce my 1amp of electical power. Now if I wanted to add more electrical do-hickies to this cute little car, I'm going to need more juice from the alternator which is going to need more hp to turn it.- Correct? Okay, now if I really wanted to put this do-hicky on my cute little car but the engine isn't powerful enough to turn the alternator to produce the power I need, whaty do I do? I know, I'll take that boom box of a stereo out and use that power!

2. There has to be a catalyst in the water to entice the electrolysis threshhold to be lower. Much of the internet research leaves out this step, or over generalizes it. Aluminum screen cathode and anode seem to work pretty well, as does altering the make up so that the cathode and anode are different materials. We had a lot of success with a series of alternating cylinder types for the cathode and anode

- Now here I must blantantly disagree with you 200%! Your electrolyte is the key ingredient for this recipe to work. It's discussed in every article I've ever read on my Internet. It can be either acidic or alkaline and the concentrations are different due to the design you use. No matter though because the electrolyte is still corrosive. Where did you get the idea that aluminum screen works as a cathode? I tell you what, one of the real popular electrolytes used in these systems is Sodium Hydroxide, commonly known as lye or drain opener. Get a little drain opener and put some aluminum foil in it. I don't want to, but I must warn you, your supposed cathode is going to be doing some major reacting. Do not smoke and don't have any open flames about. This reaction is producing Hydrogen gas due to the sodium hydroxide breaking down. Every unit that has been concieved only uses stainless steel when in contact with the electrolyte.

Please try using somebody else's internet. Yours apparently has alot of misleding information on it.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by geo1066]

reply to post by gareth01422

All I used for electilizer was lemon juice and table salt dissolved in tap water. Hydrogen was produced although I started feeling sick after ten minutes. I think this was down to the fluoride in the tap water.

I'm glad your alright. Salt is a no-no. Salt= NaCl= Sodium Cloride.
What you smelled that was getting you nausous was CLORINE from the salt breaking down. Bad stuff.. Very little can give you lasting effects in more ways than one.

Originally posted by Drexon
Can someone explain why economic type cars can't utilize this tech properly?

They can but it goes along the lines of what 'getreadyalready' had to say above-

1. There has to be excess power in the engine. In other words, most engines have reserve power that is never used unless you are towing or climbing mountains or racing. As such, much of the horsepower is wasted, so adding an additional load from an additional alternator or a larger alternator, or some extra draw on the current, won't impact the fuel economy. This won't help much on economy cars, but it is certainly true in large trucks and cars!

In which I replied in my post above



[edit on 20-10-2009 by geo1066]

reply to post by Peter Brake

If you could reduce the amount of energy needed to breakdown the water, it could work.

Ther is a new design thet is out now called the 'Dry Cell'. The name of this design is very misleding but this unit can produce more hho requiring only 2amps compared to the past designs that required 17amps.

on your search engine look up-

hho dry cell

reply to post by geo1066

Where on Earth did you get that 20% figure?

Modern internal combustion engines using mass air flow sensors in the intake manifold and oxygen sensors in the exhaust manifold are able to dynamically adjust the fuel/air mixture. By maintaining a stoichiometric mixture (about 14.6:1), 100% (or very close to it) fuel combustion is attained. But even without the electronics, an older engine that is burning only 20% of its fuel is in dire need of a tune up. If that's all you're getting a visit to a good mechanic would be a better idea than messing around with hydrogen supplements.

[edit on 10/21/2009 by Phage]

Phage you always come along and spoil my entertainment.

If I was getting 20 percent, I would just add a turbo, keep pumping that un burnt fuel around and around.


He could only have a very small explosion lol. Besides if he put his lights or wipers on it would kill the battery.

Originally posted by geo1066
-Your altenator has a fairly consistent production rate. When you don't have your lights, flashers, stereo, dome light, tow package etc. on, this electricity is pretty much just grounded away.

That isn't true, the load on the engine caused by the alternator is proportional to the power drawn from the alternator. If there are no electrical items on and the battery is fully charged then the alternator will present very little load.

If you load up the alternator then that energy comes from the petrol. In addition the alternator isnt 100% efficient.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
1. There has to be excess power in the engine. In other words, most engines have reserve power that is never used unless you are towing or climbing mountains or racing.

An IC engine doesn't have "reserve power" that isn't been used. All the energy from IC either goes into heat or turning the wheels.

Charles Goodwin’s hydrogen fuel system is helping power his 1997 Ford van, nearly doubling its fuel efficiency.

“I got 31 miles to the gallon, which was a 94 percent increase over the EPA,” said Goodwin.

31mpg was a 94% increase?

So in actual fact his van was doing 16mpg?

I have a tip for the guy that will improve his gas mileage even more - scrap the damn thing and go buy something like my Ford Fiesta TDI which does 63mpg on a combined cycle without me having to strap home made hydrogen producing jars to the radiator!

I wonder what effect this would have on a decent car? Hmmm.....




[edit on 21/10/09 by neformore]