Disappointed with ATS.

Originally posted by Ulala
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Don't discount the language problems too. Here's a good example ... a German contributor started a thread a few hours ago and it disappeared totally off the radar ...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The jist of it, I think, is that German government ministers, their civil service & military are to be offered a different swine flu vaccine from the rest of the population, one which doesn't have some kind of "active agent" in it. I'm waiting for a proper translation to appear on the Deutsche Welle website and then I'll chip in.

It has the potential to be a great thread ... but it's let down by poor translation

Good point. That must be doubly frustrating. Especially when the same topic, if set in America would garner multiple threads and dozens of pages.

reply to post by Walkswithfish


Just to avoid misunderstanding RE my previous post.... The reason why I think ATS should be divided like that is that "the rest of the world" really isn't all that interested in USA-internal-affairs-related threads, and these threads are taking *a lot* of space... Divided maybe we could have much more fun here.

Originally posted by Aislin

Originally posted by Republican08

And they will always be able to surpass you in the job interview via a little leg,

Um....not because they have a better education, a better work history, give a better interview, show a higher level of functionality?

Really, Republican? Really?

Half hearted joke, lol, not meant to be taken seriously there, this goes to show, that you guys are taking race to seriously, or sexism?

Of course you get the job if your qualified, if your not... well you don't get it for very long eh!

reply to post by Ex_MislTech

but for now ATS was started in the US

ATS was created by Simon Gray and he is British. The domain names were registered to him so you could say that ATS is a UK site.

But I like to think of ATS as an international site.

I'm disappointed in the absurd level of your hypocrisy.

You complain about your disapproval for racial based topics on ATS that lack involvement of a conspiracy...

By posting a racial based topic that lacks the involvement of a conspiracy.

Lol. I mean seriously? Are you being serious or was this a troll?

I dont post on here that often but I do read alot of the content. I would say that the main problem here is that many people reply more to the things that they dont agree with rather than the things that they do. By doing this all they achieve is to give more momentum to the very thing they dont agree with. If a post is obviously nonsense and you dont reply it will just fizzal out.
I would say the other main problem is that people are far too attached to their opinions. The purpose of ats is to educate and learn from each other, not to convince others that your right and their wrong. This is why nothing of purpose will ever be achieved here, because we all spend to much time argueing with each other. You cant prove anything if you cant agree on itg in the first place.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Adam Kadmon]

"Now I'll be the first to say, we're all a lil bit racist. "

Speak for yourself, please.

My opinion on some of these bigger issues of race and global community is that it will take TIME! The stress and combative nature of this is natural.

None of us want racism and all of us want the world to get along. But the truth is that human psychology can't change that quick. I can't be brought up speaking Spanish and living the Spanish culture and then wake up 1 month later expected to live perfectly in an Arabic speaking/culture...and be happy. You, me, and the cultural groups all have to wait for another generation to be born without the same "hang ups" or experiences to move to the next level. We all have time limitations, not all of us have the time to "change the world" every day or even every week...we have jobs, families, school, recreation, and our own interests.

I hear people all the time complaining about "why" racism exists or why can't we all get along. We're getting there! It takes time, each of us is part of the process and advancement, but again we are limited by our psychology, time, and experiences. Some people are more worldly or multicultural/racial, but some live very isolated lives, or lives very similar to their parents, their culture may not have many outside influences. The good news with the internet, satellite TV, and a rough draft like global democracy, that we are advancing quicker.

But think "generation" not years, it's a psychological change that has to happen. The earth moving around the sun (years) doesn't change psychology. I think that only happens when new people are born into the new paradigm, see it as normal, and advance it for the next generation.

You can try to divide up ATS into two groups, but it won't last, and it probably woudn't be fruitful in the long run. You may want a few small devoted sections dealing with internal politics, but ATS is about human consciousness expanding based on discussions and truth seeking. I don't want to just talk with people from the USA or Europe or Africa or Asia to figure out universal truths.

I can still think as a kid how much Americans hated "football/soccer", but I played it, I was told how "sissy" I was, how it was a game for foreigners and not worth watching. Well slowly generation after generation, soccer has been accepted by more and more Americans. There's still detractors because that's their life experience of not playing or watching it, but people accept it now. It didn't happen over night, some people saw it as a threat or "lesser"...but with new generations being born it slowly changes.

Get ready for the last big thing: Religion. The battle is on the horizon and it will be the doozy since it pulls from the deepest desires of people. Black, white, asian, US, UK, Ghana, Oman, India, Fiji, etc...religion crosses all borders, yet will soon be challenged to battle by rationalists who feel manipulated by religious beliefs that they don't believe in.

freedom of expression. nuff said. i dont see a problem with racism so long as everyone can agree not to hold others down due to skin color, duh. what i mean is we can all gather round and tell race jokes to each other with out it turning into a fight. cant we?

its healthy to laugh. but sadly everyone is led to believe its "offensive" becuase of the "pc" world we inhabit today. i think its stupid with all we've learned as a spices just in the last 100 years to go on bickering about what flavor of human is the best. after all we all bleed red.(except mabye the reptilians. lol) as bill hicks said we can all get along and explore space both inner and outer forever.

so mabye we do need something like an alien invasion, asteriod, or a matrix unplugging to relize there is something greater out there. but till then live happily and respect your fellow human.

The thing is, the Racism is put out by only a tiny part of the ATS membership, and it pisses off the rest, that they feel they need to have their say about such a touchy topic, I know I do, and I don't know why, for the most part however I just shake my head and move on and leave them to it, cant change the mind of the ignorant, and that's all it is really.

We often see Americans going on about illegal immigrants etc, that part makes me LOL, WHY? because they seem to have forgotten, that America was made up of 100% Immigration when it was born, without exception, and I am not talking about the Revolution, I am talking about the original settlers, who had no interest in Racism, and lived peacefully side by side with their neighbours, which also gave them their thanksgiving day.

There always seems to be a lot of objection when members from other parts of the World, comment on American affairs, but truth be known, American affairs have a profound effect on the rest of the World.

There has been a lot of bashing happening recently, against everyone, Australian, European, British, Russian, Israeli Iranian, North Korean, and that's just the short list.

Lots of screams about War, yet we allow this minority to pour fuel on the fire, most of us couldn't care less what color a persons skin is, we see deeper than that, it's the minority who create these threads that are listed in the OP (apart from one) it's the rest of us who keep it on the first page, as I said we all want our say because it pisses us off, the ignorance of it.

[edit on 17/10/2009 by azzllin]

Racialists feelings are natural and healthy, but, this does not mean that it is all right to act oppressively to members of other races... people will always prefer their own race because they share more of their same genes, and we all want our own genes to become numerous. Biology forces us to want that...Co-operating in daily life with fellow members of a social community helps us to flourish, and increases the chances of copies of our genes multiplying. So, naturally, we are disposed to co-operate actively with communities of people who appear to be genetically similar to ourselves. If we can tell by looking at some people that they share fewer of our genes, we will be at least somewhat less enthusiastic about active co-operation with them... we will to some extent see them as unwelcome competitors for resources... it is understandable and in a way admirable that many people urge the elimination of racial feelings. I can sympathize with someone who says "Wouldn't it be better if people saw mankind as just one human race without distinctions?"
Perhaps that would be better. But it is like asking "Wouldn't it be better if water flowed uphill as well as down?" Possibly it would, but there's not much point discussing it. It isn't going to happen.

I have read the OP's post and wish to cut right to the bone of the cancer of western civilization called the "Politically Correct" movement. (refered hereto as 'PC')

The tensions in world today are not about skin color. Case in point - "Black" Americans share melatonin atributes just like native Africans and yet the two groups are worlds apart in every other aspect.

What is the difference? Culture.

Let me be direct and call this tug of war what it really is - a war of cultures. Color of skin is irrelevant and anyone who places emphasis on it is naive and unenlightened.

So for the purposes of an enlightened discussion, let us from here on forward, refer to this as "The War of Cultural Dominance."

What we are now seeing in this age is an attack on the culture of Western Civilization.

It seems the world, in it's attempt to debase all that has made it what it is today, has apparently, in a pathological case of amnesia, forgotten Shakespeare, Isaac Newton, Michelangelo and nearly all the great innovators in science, technology, art, literature, and philosophy have been of this culture of Western Civilization. Charles Murray makes a damning case for this in his book Human Accomplishment.

Even the historian of ideas Peter Watson says of his interviews with 150 thinkers from around the world:

all of them—there were no exceptions—said the same thing. In the 20th century, in the modern world, there were no non-western ideas of note.

And so without belaboring the point, the great culture of Western Civilization (yes, you could also call them whites) has brought this world to an unattained level of advancement never before seen.

So how does one explain the following quote from the Heroic icon of the Politically Correct (PC) movement:

“The white race is the cancer of human history.” - Susan Sontag’s words of 1967 from “What’s Happening in America (1966),” Partisan Review 44 (Winter 1967): 57.

I have it on the best authority (and I'll cite many references if you ask me) that at the core of this demonic Politically Correct (PC) movement lies the most insidious stabs of the very priviledged culture it has been born from, namely:

Whites are the only “racist” race. That is, they are the only race that has believed itself superior to other races, and this belief has led them to treat other races in a uniquely cruel manner.
White racism and imperialism are the primary explanation for the failings of non-whites.
Whites deserve no credit for their superior cultural achievement. Indeed, they deserve to be blamed for it, as whites only achieved cultural superiority by keeping non-whites down and by stealing cultural innovations from them.

And yet again, this pathological amnesia of the 'PC' movement fails to remember that Western Civilization (yes, white people) created the whole moral system that condemns them. Today the world blames white Americans for slavery but forgets that whites were the first to formulate the concept of human rights that is the basis of this condemnation. Until the 19th century slavery was a universal practice, and Arabs, Africans, and Asians never realized it might be wrong until white people told them so and pressured them to abolish it.

I will continue this in other posts but for now let me conlude the Western Civilization is being attacked by all sides from other cultures who want nothing more than destroy and plunder the rewards of Western Civilization due to the failings of all other culture's attempts to attain of the same gradure of accomplishments and standards of living. In short, they want what they have not earned and are now willing to steal it by unscrupulous means.


[edit on 17-10-2009 by SpookHunter]

As you can see by my name, I am Canadian and a fairly new member here at ATS. I have to laugh to myself when I see all the posturing and better-than-thou-ism that goes on here between members of different countries on any given topic. The Americans thinking they're mightier, the Aussies thinking they're street-wiser, the Brits thinking they're more in control, etc., etc. All the while I'm thinking sheesh...why don't they just pull 'em out and measure 'em, ya know? In the meantime, while you all are there fighting over who's better...us crazy Canucks are sitting here with little grins on our faces cuz we KNOW we are. (wiggles eyebrows suggestively)


/absurdity...sorry, just couldn't help myself. Good day eh?

then go be disappointed somewhere else. Racism isn't really that big of an issue because racists never last long in an argument.

Originally posted by zombiegerm
freedom of expression. nuff said.

Not on a privately owned site like ATS and many others. Freedom of expression has limits.

Racism shouldn't be tolerated any more than false allegations of racism.

What can be both good about ATS and disappointing are the often arbitrarily applied limits on free expression.

When it involves something you are interested in it can be disappointing, when it involves a topic you find offensive, a poster you dislike, or anything you find disturbing it is good!

What is disappointing for one person could make others quite happy.

As a whole, ATS is entertaining, but if you have came here with a belief in freedom of expression you may find yourself disappointed.

Originally posted by lightchild
I think ATS should be divided into 2.

Part 1 - USA
Part 2 - Rest of the world

Please, Please ATS, Do this.

On topic, i agree with the OP, in essence, who gives a *SNIP* what someone looks like or is from.

People need to calm down. Its really annoying.


Mod Edit: Language. - alien

[edit on 17-10-2009 by alien]

After I read the first few pages, I realized that there was a very good and strong point to this thread. If I didn't stop to examine this thread's intent, I would have made a massive mistake in this reply. As an American citizen who is apart of the Constitutionalist party, I stand among those who seek out 'the old America'. At the core of our great nation, we are a moral and balanced people. Many of us acknowledge and celebrate America's European roots. Our founding fathers left Europe many years ago, for they sought out to create a more universally free society. Since there were arguments back in England and Spain, we left to develop a society that celebrates individual freedom from religion and government. Even though we came from Europe, we didn't want to become Europe. Socialism is defined under the Constitutionalist party as a fundamental key element to communism. Regardless about the actual differences in definition, many of us don't see enough differences between both forms of government. As a result of government and corporate corruption, socialism in the United States is taking hold of our youth. Instead of trying to fix those things that are wrong, we are seeing deep division between party lines. Our two major playing parties, the Democrat and Republicans, are in an unusual deadlock.

During the 2000 and 2008 election, 45% of our voters are Democrat and 45% of our voters are Republican. Even though we will celebrate when the economy turns around, that one positive impact will not change our polarized system. What will change how people will vote is a universal acknowledgment of government and corporate taryany. Since I am someone who is a member of a third party, the Constitutionalists, I currently see no consensus across the two major parties. Regardless about how many times the Democrats and Republicans betray the people, (with the media's help), they will never-ever vote any other way.

Democrat Party = Socialism (Progressives) believe in government control over our lives, but will exploit minorities to gain votes. Lobbyists lovers.

Republican Party = Conservatives believe in less government control, but they will not allow us to take corporate trash to jail. Lobbyists lovers.

Constitutionalists = Patriots that embody the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Deceleration of Independence. We want less government control in our lives, we want to send corporate criminals to jail, and we believe in individual freedom and individual responsibility. You could call us and the Libertarians the parties of 1776. We are the Americans in which the world knows. We believe in Reagan and Jefferson.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I will join in with everyone else by saying sorry to everyone on the outside. Since the United States is caught in a death lock between conflicting parties and universal corruption, our nation and its government is standing on unstable ground. Instead of talking about our issues, many people are yelling racism and hate for opposing opinions. Our media outlets are contributing to the spread of hate, and it is ruining the core elements that made America unique. Our government is so badly damaged by those who wish to divide us, and every single damn one of them are partaking in unconstitutional practices. Every damn one of them. We are looking at a government that is so corrupt, and by being against the people it is tearing us up.

I will also be among the first to say that we need help. Real Americans who believe in the Constitution, individual freedom, and individual responsibility need help. We cannot fight against a very powerful and corrupt government alone. We don't have the resources and support from another nation, so we can take back and rebuild the foundations of our country.

-----------------------------------------------

So, I stand here before all of you. I stand here along with my fellow Constitutionalists. I stand here holding the constitution in one hand, and the blood of our founding fathers in the other. I stand here looking across the ocean to our origins. I stand here yelling out to Europe at the top of my lungs. Forgive us. Even though we have differences in opinion, we ask you all to put them aside for just a brief moment. We need your help.

Call this an S.O.S. to Europe. If we don't stand together to remove American corruption now, we will never have another opportunity to do so.

We need you Europe. We need our true brothers and sisters now.

We need you.

reply to post by Republican08


I have to say I both agree with and disagree with you, but then again I am person who sees both sides of the coin, so to speak.

ATS is not just here to give you something, but for you to give something back as well, and as the saying goes it's not what you get but what you give that contributes to your environment.

Racism is only bred into people through ignorance and stupidity, and having never been an individual who saw anyone as anything other than another human being, albeit their skin color may differ than mine, they have the same exact color blood running through their veins and have the same color brain matter rattling around in their head between their ears like I do.

While I cannot speak on the content and character of many I can speak of it from my perspective of how I react and interact with others in that I will not utter those ignorant racial stereotypes that most people do because to me a person is not equal to the color of their skin, but instead they are equal to the environment they grew up in, assisted in attuning towards a change, and the life experiences that they have both gained and lost because of and how they take those experiences and utilize them to help other people better themselves.

While I may not know you well, I will suggest that instead of blaming ATS, maybe instead of blaming anyone, you should instead blame what you are not seeing as an opportunity to add to and enhance your own life in order to access knowledge that may not be made available to other people.

Yes, some of the topics here are not for everyone, but for others almost every topic makes them salivate.

Every single place I go I suggest to people to come look at and read ATS.

From Australia, to Sacramento, to Washington D.C., to Dallas.

Enhance, change, and influence the change you want to see and want to be.

Otherwise you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.

No speech writers were harmed in the making of this post.



[edit on 17-10-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Thank you Pathos.
Let's bring some intelligence into this very important struggle between Freedom, Liberty, and Happiness, as opposed to placing the non-representing elites into control of the destiny of all our lives.


And to SparticanKing:

I will suggest that instead of blaming ATS, maybe instead of blaming anyone, you should instead blame what you are not seeing as an opportunity to add to and enhance your own life in order to access knowledge that may not be made available to other people.

Awesome. Someone who truly appreciates the value of free speech on this forum, and the advantages it brings.

And to WalksWithFish:

Not on a privately owned site like ATS and many others. Freedom of expression has limits. Racism shouldn't be tolerated any more than false allegations of racism."

Have you considered that the only constructive way to decern the truth is through the freedom of excelent debates such as this? If you deny all of us the freedom to express and debate, then you are part of the problem, not the solution.



[edit on 17-10-2009 by SpookHunter]

[edit on 17-10-2009 by SpookHunter]