Large Hadron Collider being stopped, from the future?!

Originally posted by jimmyx
it's always been strange to me, what underlying "reason" there was to build the LHC. to spend billions of dollars, to employ highly educated engineers spending tens of thousands of man hours, and the fact that there is already colliders out there providing valuable insight into the makeup of the quantum world, just to satisfy some physicists curiosity, is not logical or reasonable, without expecting some sort of astounding, and most of all, profitable benefit. "always follow the money" has been my first line of research into the "WHY" of anything.

As a career engineer who worked on a number of projects, including experiments on LEP and now the LHC, I can assure you that your intuition here is wrong.

In some select cases fundamental knowledge can be turned into a technology and turn profit. In most cases, it just enriches our understanding of the Universe which is (as in Mastercard commercial) - priceless. It'll pay off over the period of maybe thousands of years, so it's just not a "business model" as you describe it.

ok this is a bit off the wall here but i have what you could call a loose idea on this.

the collider fires the particals at close to the speed of light, when they collide they are ment to fire of there hix boson so that they can observe them, this would mean they no longer have mass! if thats the case then they may no longer be restricted by the theory of relativity as mass if kinda the key component for that. this combined with there collission speed and the energy released from the collission could posably push them past the zero point and over the speed of light, they have no mass so will they slow down?

The common theory on time travel is that it could be done if you could go faster than light, its already been proven that time slows the faster you go so could time go backwards if you travel past the speed of light?

If the particals go past the speed of light and traveled back in time then when the collider is switched on in the past (relative to the first sucsesful collision) then it may result in slowing them down to sub light speed and bringing them back into normal time, this results in the collider having more particals bouncing around inside it than its ment to and thus results in it braking down.

So its possable any time travel may be by acident, its just a part of nature we are yet to understand, wich is why they built the thing in the first place..

it also means that in the future there are some scientists wondering where there particals have gone lol

all ideas are welcome!

I also agree with bud, if you can find it you can observe it, then control it maybe, think of what could be done if you could change the mass of an object by removing or monipulating its hix particals, could it be developed into a new form of propulsion? faster than light travel? or making a space craft the size of a cruss ship but as light as a 747. even anti gravaty devices that somehow push against other masses

[edit on 19-10-2009 by talon]

yes i know iv said hix and not higg's but its almost 3am and i cant be botherd to go change it

[edit on 19-10-2009 by talon]

Originally posted by failedsquare
reply to post by jmotley

 

Perhaps after the point the paradox is formed that reality would be "destroyed" in that it could no longer continue so it would cease.
I have no real basis for this opinion but i believe there is sort of a compartmentalization of realities for just that sort of situation. It is presumed that for each choice or event there are alternate realities which stem from it for every possible outcome. So the realities which are stopped simply stop and those which had different outcomes continue.

I can agree to that but, In the ones that continue there would have been no need for this partical to come back and try to stop it's own discovery, because it would not have been discoved. Like I stated earlier is the grandfather paradox all over. I would sooner believe that some other force is stopping us from discovering this partical. This is just a theory but it could very well be some ET that does what this partical is capible of and knows that we as a specias are not ready.

What came first, the LHC or the Higgs Boson?

(One day, a bird that wasn't a chicken laid an egg from which a chicken emerged )

I've got an interesting question for all of you.

Would removing or altering the mass of a particle nullify it's standard rate of travel through space-time?

Time and gravity is perceived due to the curvature of space-time from either a large mass or a large quantity of energy and in removing the mass from a particle or creating the higgs boson are we making it relatively improbable to track its course through space-time in comparison to our own?

Someone above sort of implied "That its ONLY a very small particle, What harm could it do?"

Check out the chain reaction of a nuclear weapon, then times that by 100 and maybe this is why some other "influence" is trying to "sabotage" the Hadron Collider.

For all we dumb humans know, creating this, then firing particles at near speed of light in opposite direction sounds disastrous to me and I'm just a lay man. WHY can't they find something less destructive to play with.

Here's to hoping they get back to things that can't blow all Earthly existence to kingdom come. Oh and things that don't cost Billions of $ to fail. Bloody Idiots.

reply to post by talon


erm... Sounds good to me. Although, if they have no mass when they 'eventually' travel back then they wont really exist in their original form. And arnt they ment to be mini black holes? That'll collase in on their selfs? Thus making them sortta like some non-existing, ephemeral particle. Which is basically the suspected outcome, the particle wont sustain its self for long.

Originally posted by PYak1234

For all we dumb humans know, creating this, then firing particles at near speed of light in opposite direction sounds disastrous to me and I'm just a lay man. WHY can't they find something less destructive to play with.

You'll be surprised that what happens in our upper atmosphere can reach particle energies much much higher than LHC can! I'm talking of this:

en.wikipedia.org...

Well who knows still... Such particle colliding with air molecules may not be as harmful as the same particle colliding with a special concoction of matter/particles.

Lets see its the largest most complex machine man has made and its not working properly the reason given its being tampered with from the future

I bet half the folk working on it could never program their video to record
only kidding its teething problems it should be expected!

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
I don't think thats very likely. I mean we are talking a single particle here not an actual thinking living breathing person. Furthermore i believe it creates a paradox, because it would prove its own exsistence by letting us know it doesn't want us to discover it.

That depends on how you view size and the significance of size....

Some undetectable to us could be able to destroy us and we wouldn't even know....just because it's small does not make it not powerful.


It is an interesting theory, and I'm glad they are at least putting it out there.


Who are we to judge anything we don't really know about ???

Ok.... now I have seen the "BACK TO THE FUTURE" and TERMINATOR movies countless times.... so based on this I feel I am an expert on time travel theory.

My thought is that IF someone was trying to SABOTAGE the project, why not just go BACK IN TIME to the first IDEA of the project... sabotage the bus carrying the scientists on the way to the first meeting to discuss this project.

Based on this logic I assume the problems are related to the MASSIVE complexity of the project and the 'breaking-new-ground aspect' of the science. GOING WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE... you usually stub your toe in the dark quite a few times along the way.


[edit on (10/26/09) by AllSeeingI]

Just now seeing this on Colbert (Hilarious)

Don't know if anyone saw this yet...

Source

The Large Hadron Collider, the world's most powerful particle accelerator, just cannot catch a break. First, a coolant leak destroyed some of the magnets that guide the energy beam. Then LHC officials postponed the restart of the machine to add additional safety features. Now, a bird dropping a piece of bread on a section of the accelerator has, according to the Register, shut down the whole operation.

The bird dropped some bread on a section of outdoor machinery, eventually leading to significant over heating in parts of the accelerator. The LHC was not operational at the time of the incident, but the spike produced so much heat that had the beam been on, automatic failsafes would have shut down the machine.

This incident won't delay the reactivation of the facility later this month, but exposes yet another vulnerability of the what might be the most complex machine ever built. With freak accident after freak accident piling up over at CERN, the idea of time traveling particles returning from the future to prevent their own discovery is beginning to seem less and less far fetched.

reply to post by jimmyx


In the simplest rationale, they do it for the very same reason we all, as children, once asked "why is the sky blue?"

A: Because we want to know!

Originally posted by fromunclexcommunicate
What were the dark ages really about? Was it just the Church protecting their income? Certainly if the public had known that the earth was not the flat center of the universe, obedience to the Christian order might have suffered. Not only would less money flow into the church from passionate believers, what currency was offered would be devalued in relation to Roman currency.

The "Dark Ages" were about the abuse of Religion by individuals who twisted it's inherently benign nature to suit their malevolent desires to attain power and influence by subjugating the masses through their exploitation of Scripture via both their warped interpretation and implementation of it.

Nothing more, just a whole lot less.

which is effectively calling it gravity. which we still dont know what it is.

Gravity is vertical part of the Earth's magnetic field.

Originally posted by Shoujikina

which is effectively calling it gravity. which we still dont know what it is.

Gravity is vertical part of the Earth's magnetic field.

You are wrong!

Chocolate is horizontal part of coconut sprinkles.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Yeah that comment brain punched me too.... I literally do not know where people get these ideas... and how they manage to keep them when all this information is lying right at your fingertips via the www. It scares me when people make proclamations like that because of the implications about our educational system it creates.

reply to post by Shoujikina

Magnetism and gravity aren't the same force, but I believe gravity is the same thing and derives from the same source as the other three fundamental forces (electromagnetism, AKA the "electro-weak" force), not just magnetism). My theory's too long to keep typing all the time so you can read it here if you're interested. Haven't gotten a lot of feedback about it, but it's all been positive...

Actually, the Higgs particle was first described in 1959 by an internationally well-known clairvoyant, Geoffrey Hodson,. Read page 59 here

That the Higgs boson exists is the implication of pioneering investigations between 1895 and 1908 by the two Theosophists Annie Besant and Charles Leadbeater, who used the same form of remote viewing as Hodson to reproduce features of the QCD string model of quark confinement over 80 years before Nielsen and his colleague Olesen proved that SU(3) colour monopoles could be topologically trapped by the non-abelian version of the Meissner Effect in clusters of three as the endpoints of vortical excitations of the superconducting Higgs field. Compare this picture of the colour-coded colour flux density inside a baryon composed of three quarks, as calculated from QCD using a supercomputer and presented at an international conference in 2003 on colour confinement, with a diagram that appeared in the book Besant & Leadbeater published in 1908 describing what has turned out to be their remote-viewed descriptions of quarks. The two pictures are essentially identical (there are numerous others like this in their book), providing evidence that they were the first to detect the Higgs field over 60 years before it was conceived by Peter Higgs. In fact, they were the first to describe the quark composition of atomic nuclei over 56 years before quarks were conceived by Murray Gell-Mann and George Zweig. This is proven conclusively in the free PDF version of a book by theoretical physicist Stephen Phillips linked to above and in subsequent books of his available at his website at:
smphillips.8m.com...