Time to talk about it. My experience in the Army.

Originally posted by Psyagra
To those who think this story is unbelievable - if you've been in any army - except the Salvation Army

- and have not come across this kind of behavior, you are damn lucky.

That's so true. While most of the younger men and women in the military are great individuals these days, a lot of those that have been the service for a long time are pretty mentally messed up folks. I remember the day when individuals that were hauled before a judge for some crime and bad decisions they made in their life were given the choice of spending 10 years in jail or joining the military for a few years. Needless to say I'm sure a lot of those kinds of people are still in the service, and likely in higher positions/rank. Your commanding officer might have been a mentally impaired wife beating drunk 20 years ago, and people with brains like that seldom change their stripes (even if they aren't acting like that today, they still have that potential to be stupid because they are).

I spent 4 years in the military and I caught our Captain selling refridgerators stolen from the army on the black market in Korea. I didn't turn him in, I blackmailed him for a percentage of his profits though, ha.

And if that wasn't enough, after returning to the states I ended up at Fort Lewis, with another dink for a Captain. I later learned he was taking women to his office for a fling late at night after hours. He was married. After a little altercation with the guy once, and getting busted down one rank for talking back to the dink, I called his wife one night and told her where she could find her husband, and what he was doing .. and then I went to watch from across the street the exciting action that followed. It was funny as hell.

[edit on 12-10-2009 by Divinorumus]

Well they shoved me about 5 or 6 times each and I had - had enough of it. I stopped in my tracks, and in my head I said # this #. The staff sergeant kept running but my first sergeant stopped and started yelling at me to get up with the platoon and was asking WTF I was doing, and I replied obnoxiously "I'm a slow fat ass first sergeant" because he would call me that all the time, he would single me out in front of 100 guys in my platoon and call me a fat ass, and so would 2 other staff sergeants, and I weighed like 165 at the time. But before Iraq I weighed like 200, so they would call me a fatass all the time, and just literally single me out in front of 100 guys. Well, anyway, that same day we ran, we had to go to the company office and update our telephone numbers in the call list in the first sergeants computer, so my turn comes, I'm pretty much the last guy to go in there if my memory serves me right, and he acts normal, like nothing happened, and asks for my number and I give it to him and walk out. Then the staff sergeant that was also shoving me shows up and he gives me this "I will kill you" look. And about 5min later my Sergeant tells me not to leave, and my Sergeant was a kick ass mother who was a good friend as well. Well he went in and had a chat with the First Sergeant and Staff Sergeant, and they told him they wanted to counsel me "slap on the wrist" for disrespecting two Staff NCOs (because I was obnoxious and didn't go to parade rest). When he came outside and told me that, I told him flat out, I will request mast to the CO for hazing, and if he doesnt do anything about it, I will request straight to the BN Co. And he told me that was a good idea, and he went back in there and told them that and they didn't do #. A word of advice for people in the military or people considering the military.... KNOW YOUR RIGHTS and EXERCISE THEM! Higher ups hate the words "Request Mast" because you can request mast straight to the President of the United States of America, it never goes that high unless you want it to. And if you do request it that high, they have to get you to I think Washington D.C. within 48 hours of you requesting mast or they're in deep #. They also tried to deny my pre deployment leave, because the only flight I could catch out of Palm Springs airport left 30min before we went on leave, and I had a good 80 days on the books. I never went home because I hated coming back. So I stayed and made my family miss me, which I regret but whatever.. the story. Anyway, they werent going to let me do that even though there was atleast 5 other guys who were in the same situation and they allowed them to go. My senior Corporal at the time was acting shop chief and went to a meeting, and my coporal asked why they were letting this one other marine leave early (his roommate which was a rank below me).. And they told him "because he's squared away"... I was pretty #ing squared away, I knew every aspect of my job, and could do it without supervision and I could command other Marines what to do. I was a good NCO, but the first sergeant didn't like me because I was a slow runner but could pass a PFT without problems. He gave special privelages to the guys who could run in 20min or less.. So anyway, I had to tell my Corporal that I was going to request mast to get my predeployment leave, I hadn't seen my family in two years. So he went back up there before I made it up there and let them know I was about to be up there to request mast for my leave. I got there a minute after he told them that, and I asked my Gunny and my XO what was going on with my leave and why it wasn't approved.. and they acted like they didnt know what I was talking about and that it should have been approved. #ing bull#.. The Marine Corps did me wrong, I suppose its partially my fault. But you really have to *SNIP* to get anywhere in the military, well atleast the Corps.

Mod-Note: Profanity Removed.

[edit on 12-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

I don't regret my decision for joining. I'm proud to be a Marine, and an NCO at that. I have been Honorably Discharged a couple months ago. I can go make $250,000 doing contract work in Iraq or Afghanistan, but I choose not to. My mother has breast cancer, my father doesn't have a job, he has been unemployed for a good 2 years. But I guess it's good because my mom needs him to help her. Sorry for dragging this on and on, but I just wanted to share a little bit of my experience of the Marine Corps with you guys. My Sergeant actually got discharged the same time I did and he lives about 12 miles from me. So we hang out every now and again. I stay in touch with atleast 20 people from the Marine Corps, and my best friend from the Marine Corps is sleeping on my floor right now, but he's moving down here next month which is sweet. We're going to open up a business together once he gets his degree, in about 5 months. The VA already approved his credit and everything for a business loan of I believe about $700,000. So in 5 months, we're startin' us a business. Okay, I'm done, I think. PLEASE DISREGARD ANY GRAMMAR ERRORS IN MY POSTS JUST NOW. I have been drinking and it's early in the morning. And I'm taking off work today for a day for myself... I need to get some frkin # done. (register my car lol) May Cod be with you. Good morning!

Originally posted by wx4caster
wow,

you dont happen to have any of this in your service record do you?

whan you were discharges, was it honorably? what was your RE code?

i understand the whole newbie ignorance (im navy avaiation, so we call it airman syndrome, when the e-1 through e-3 just dont get the system or how things work) but with something like that i probably would have attempted some sort of greivance, or formal complaint through a different CoC.

also i would be interested to know what your MOS was, were you like a chaplains assistant? i dont understand the religious kick.

also, for your own closure, look up your old seargant and ask him what his official take on it is. if you need help i can probably get his @army.mil e-mail through NKO or AKO.

No JAG? No outrage? Come on man. Nobody is just thrown into the mental ward for nothing. No Captain in his right mind is going to take a chance like that. There is a big paper trail involved in getting a soldier sent away for mental treatment...let alone for a whole month. Either there is a huge chunk of this story missing or you made it up using basic knowledge about the Army. My BS radar is screaming red alert. Answer wx4casters questions. Then I have a few more for you if you pass his test. Mine will be much harder, I promise you.

[edit on 12-10-2009 by fockewulf190]

Looking at this story from my perspective(which is actually sympathetic),
there are some things that don't add up. Either this guy completely
downplayed the degree to which he "lived" his religion or he's a liar.
Sometimes people become liars because of a completely distorted view
of reality, something that is not uncommon among Evangelicals and
Charismatics(Atheist too!).

From the standpoint of normal reality, Schizophrenics are liars.

I see Several possibilities:

1. Munschausen's Syndrome, ie, he likes to tell tall tales.
2. He was really as they say down under, a Complete Bible Basher,
causing his Captain to question not only his sanity, but the threat he
posed to the cohesiveness of the unit. At best the OP has to have
downplayed the degree with which he displayed his religion.

3. That he would be sent up based on one answer, supports #1. If the rest
of what he's telling us is true, there had to be a lot more to base his
Officer's decisions on than that one answer. It is possible that the only
question dealing with religion was the "punch me" question.

4. In his defense, it may have been while things were winding down in
Kosovo, there may have been extra space, so he may have had
effectively his own room. The other possibility is that he may have
been enough "on the edge" that he was given NCO quarters. No one
wanted to bunk with him.
5. The mostly likely explanation, if #1 isn't the case, is that after the
humiliation of being sent to a Psych ward, he kept quiet for 8 years.
His captain made up the story about "on leave" to protect him. Captain
was atheist, and not sympathetic, but also professional. Over the
years, OP tended to forget other explanations and remember the
religious persecution aspects. Finally he feels good enough to go public.
6. He hasn't told us much about his beliefs other than that he considers
himself to be pretty mainstrean. If there were quite a bit about it in his
evaluation, it is likely that the Psych ward would have talked to him
about it. Otherwise, they wouldn't have brought it up unless he did.
Psych people in Germany would likely be pretty secular and would
consider a religious case out of the ordinary. IMHO, if they questioned
his religion, it is likely that it was as much curiosity as attempting to
dissuade him.

If this story is as I have analyzed it, I would suggest to those reading this
thread to go easy on this guy. He is looking for sympathy and support.
I know many of you are Atheist and a story like this pushes buttons.

I hope we haven't driven him off, as there are some things that could be
done to clarify the story. For example,
Captain Schwartz could be contacted to hear his side of the story.?? Also
I hope that some of the questions raised can be addressed by the OP. If
there is truth to this, this is a conspiracy site, lets run with it! If not, it
is one more example of how rumors get started.


I would like to believe the story, but I have noticed that Tall Tales are
pretty common around here.
It would be interesting if it is true. Other similar stories should come out, if
so.

I don't think this thread warrants a Star at this point, but I will certainly give it
one, if some of my questions are answered.

I believe this guy, for those of you who don't... I served in the Marine Corps, as you can see from my posts above. But, yeah seriously.. Us military folk get #ed with, and its only because they can do it and get away with it. Majority of military members are ignorant and take what they get. There are ways of fighting back. You can get transferred to a new unit, just keep requesting it, and keep going higher and higher until they do an investigation, and if nothing comes of it.. request mast to the highest person in your chain of command, if nothing comes of that, go higher until you get transferred. That captain was a huge a-hole for doing to what he did, but I believe it because O-3's think they're Gods! I've told off O-1's and O-2's at the exchange (store), because half the time they dont know what they're talking about, and they were either my age or a year younger, maybe a year older in some cases. O-1's act like PFC's, you can tell them off as a Corporal and they usually will just put their head down or shut up. They think they're all high and mighty, until you challenge them or even talk back. Just don't do it to a mustang officer, lol. We had an O-1 yell at 300 hundred of us for laughing at his crappy Power Point presentation. And we all laughed when he yelled, and he stormed off like a little bitch. Like seriously, this boot biatch had no bearing whatsoever, and he had a high 15 year old like voice! It was funny hearing this guy speak loudly to us. lol, wow, good times.

Okay, I'm posting a lot. In the Corps, they preach God this God that, even if you don't believe in God. But our Sergeant Major of the Battalion would tell troops to go to the protestant church on Sundays. Like he would give us scriptures in his speeches, basically preaching the word of "God" to us. And I'm an atheist, and we had Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc in our BN.. and this guy would just go on and on about God.. But no one ever said anything, because they're scared of his rank.. and I was too, but now I know better.. kinda wish I could do it all over again.

Disturbing story. And I believe you.

Some people just hate God and Jesus.

I don't know why exactly, but the blame
God for being miserable themselves.

And that's what it has come down to.

PS> I wouldn't tell too much info on
this site.

polling i beleive you, i could elaborate on what i saw in the marines, but no one would beleive me so i will just say this. first at the top notches of govt is true evil bro, i wouldnt recommend any person going into the service after hearing your story and seeing what i saw. just glad that you got out alive. anyhow best wishes luck!!

OP I'm sorry to say that I find your story to be total fabrication. I served 4 years USN myself and I met plenty of people with imho far out there religious views (Satan put Dinosaur bones in the ground to get people to believe in evolution) and those people were allowed to express their views and nothing was done to them.

Simply its against the law to do what you said was done to you as you lay it out.

Either you are leaving out a whole lot of detail to slant your case or you just want to see how many people will buy your story.

strange, that so many of you totally ignore the second story, that is far more questionable, at least from what i know. But you obviously think different and complain about a relatively harmless incident, but refuse to comment about girls shot in an iraqi city - by us occupation forces

frightening

reply to post by poling2482


Thanks for sharing your story. This was a test of your loyalty to your officer not your God. Would it have been wrong to "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s"? In this case the pat serviceman's response. I don't think so but that's me. If you responded with loyalty toward the officer would he at some time in the future have tested you even further? Asking you to do something immoral or outside the military's jurisdiction? There's no telling but we can imagine where an incident like this could possibly lead.

This officer could not have taken from you what was in your heart. We all do what we have to do in order to both live with ourselves and/or survive. It sounds like you did what you needed to do and survived the consequences of your decision. I wish you the best going forward and thanks again for sharing this frightening experience.

Originally posted by UMayBRite!
Looking at this story from my perspective(which is actually sympathetic),
there are some things that don't add up. Either this guy completely
downplayed the degree to which he "lived" his religion or he's a liar ... blah blah blah

UMayBeRite eh? ... YOU sir, may be dead wrong!

I've seen a guy being drilled to death on the parade ground ... not to an inch of his life ... dead. All that happened was that the Sergeant Major was demoted.

Personally, I had torn a hamstring and had a cast from toes to hip but as I was on a section leaders course at the time, I was given a choice to go back to base and give up my NCO aspirations or continue with the course. Of course, pride and determination left me no choice but to continue with the hectic training we were subjected to. We used to get #ed up PT and obviously I fell behind doing fall and roll exercises with full gear. While I could kinda run, I battled to roll over my kit and had a sergeant walk behind me kick-rolling me along like a barrel. I survived and some might say it made me stronger (actually, I think it did too) but WTF? ... At the time I was wondering what had happened to the whole buddy buddy system they kept drumming into us.

For many years after that I had this notion that if I saw that guy walking on the street, I would run him over for sure.

Looking back however, its the best few years of my life I never want over again!

reply to post by poling2482


I have to say my christian faith's been wavering lately...but reading your post gives me pause

I'd be shocked and call anyone a liar if they said there are no innocents being killed in warzones. That's just a fact of life. War is F'ed up and there are some truly evil actions (both purposeful and accidental) occurring every single day in the name of peacekeeping and freedom fighting.... always has been and always will be.

Originally posted by poling2482
This is not a joke. Im 27 years old and just felt it was time to tell my story. The other poster was right about not being able to do anything. If your superior says something you have to do it. I couldnt beleive they did that to me. I even contacted my senator Jeff Sessions about it.

That's one of the bad things about the military. Another thing is that if a rookie enlisted man/woman, or even a rookie officer has a dispute with a higher ranking officer, or higher ranking enlisted man/woman, even if you are right about the dispute most of the time the tables are turned against you.

It is unfair, but that's the way it is, more so if the person you had a dispute with happens to have served longer than you with the skipper or whoever is in command.

I had something like that happen to me, and my chief petty officer approached me to tell me that i was right, but the petty officer first class with whom I had the dispute had served under the skipper for a long time.

Believe it or not the petty officer first class was a racist sob. I was the only hispanic in my squadron, everyone else was white, and blue eyed. My skin is fair, and i have hazel eyes, but my accent is very strong, and he had it in for me.

Unfortunately it happens quite frequently believe it or not.

Russian saying

when a woman fails she becomes a prostitute

when a man fails he becomes a policeman (soldier)

reply to post by JayinAR


That's the exact line I was thinking of!

reply to post by poling2482


Hello, and thanks for sharing. I have not read all of the responses yet, so if someone has already asked, I apologize. Since this experience, in what ways, if any, has your view of religion changed? At what point, if at all, did you ever begin to question your own belief?

To be honest, I also would have a disturbed look on my face as well given your answer. This is just my opinion. . .however, I can't say that I would tell any CO that I would commit an act of violence against him simply because God told me to. It seems that some governments have "issues" with anyone committing such acts in the name of their Deity.

Not sure if an atheist card is necessary. Unless of course the reason they were trying to change your belief was to "enlighten" you that God was actually alien influence or something.

Perhaps this was nothing more than experimentation with a semi-hypnosis inducing chemical that would allow for the changing of sincere personal beliefs. Brainwashing 101.

Did you ever tell them in any way that your perspective on religion had changed at all?

In basic we had a DI in 3rd platoon, Sgt Kuger, who was a total dick. I would pick on this one recruit endlessly. come to find out it was his nephew.

Anyway, anohter recruit had enough. He was a huge dude with martial arts degrees and at 1800hrs met this Kruger out behind the hut and beat the liven snot out of him. End of porblems.

There have been other things witnessed, nd each resolved itself in such manner or discharges.

None where related to belief in God though.

Recon3