1940 Nazi Germany=2009 Israel(photos)

My question is why was Israel created in the first place? You just cant take land that has been conquered in a war. To the victor goes the spoils of war. The palestinians, or whomever took over the israel land it belonged to the Palestinians because they conquered the land. This was an unjust taking over of land. If it was taken with a war, that would be ok. Do you think we are gonna give America back to the native americans? I dont think so. The creation of Israel in my opinion was Illegal. If they had conquered it militarily, that would be different and I would have no problem with it.

The photos do not speak for themselves. Anyone can dig up some photos and find a comparison to another historical event. Wars involve fatalities. When people die, they are often laid out in a row awaiting processing. You could find similar photos of Japanese, German, or Italian casualties from WW II. Does that make the US like Nazis? I don't think so.

Germany had a policy of extermination against certain civilian minorities, among them Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and the disabled. They routinely rounded up these people, shipped them off to camps, and gassed them or worked them to death in slave labor camps. Israel does none of this.

The barbed wire images from Germany are for camps. The barbed wire images from Israel were from a barrier with Palestinian territory, in order to reduce the number of terrorists that could cross over into Israel and kill unarmed civilians. The reason Israel is doing this is because Palestinians have actually done this. It's not some vague, theoretical threat they're addressing; it's a reality.

The Jews (and other minorities) in Nazi Germany didn't lob missiles into civilian areas. They didn't conduct suicide missions to blow up civilians (they did attack soldiers, however). They didn't vow to wipe Germany from the map. The various governments of Palestine have vowed that exact thing, to wipe Israel off the map.

While the vast majority of Palestinians are probably peace-loving people who just want to raise their families and live without fear, there are sufficient numbers of radical, extremist, violent jihadis who will gladly kill civilians or anyone else in Israel. In fact, they also kill Palestinian civilians they perceive to be less than enthusiastic about their jihad.

Israel targets armed militia and soldiers, and sometimes winds up killing civilians. Palestinian terrorists (and other terrorists) target civilians, and avoid soldiers.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


guess the answer is with the britts, usa and (pre?)nazi germany, but i
guess the irony is that jews had/has a right to live there (palestina) acording to the palestinian law , and instead of just moving there and find a job and get a house and raise a family they kicked everyone out and occupied the lot throu force.

but as i wrtote , the answer is with the britts , usa and (pre?)nazi germany

reply to post by chiron613


en.wikipedia.org...
www.guardian.co.uk...

just to name afew "incidents"

read up on your history , this is just reasent times....

Originally posted by zerbot565
just to name afew "incidents"

read up on your history

So we have a historian. Nothing like selective cut-n-paste history. Maybe provide context of why there were Israeli soldiers in Gaza.

You can also Google plenty of suicide bomber attacks on civilians to broaden your scope.

www.zionism-israel.com...

In the summer of 1929 the Arabs of Palestine initiated rioting and massacres against the Jewish population in several towns. The targets were not Zionists who had dispossessed Arabs of their lands, but for the most part Jewish communities of the "old Yishuv," communities that had lived in Palestine for many hundreds of years. The pogroms were of the same general character as pogroms that had taken place sporadically in Palestine for hundreds of years, usually referred to euphemistically by Jews of Safed, Tiberias, Jerusalem and Hebron as "Meoraot" - "events."

The worst massacres took place in Safed, Hebron, Jerusalem and Motza. Like the pogroms of past ages, these "disturbances" featured angry crowds stirred up over a religious or other dispute, Imams preaching "Kill the Jews wherever you find them" and mobs screaming "Aleihum" (get them) and "Itbach Al Yahood" - murder the Jews. In a few days, over a hundred Jews were murdered and several hundreds were wounded.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Munich massacre is an informal name for events occurred during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, West Germany, when members of the Israeli Olympic team were taken hostage and eventually murdered by Black September, a militant group with ties to Yasser Arafat’s Fatah organization.

[...] The attackers were subsequently reported to be part of the Palestinian fedayeen from refugee camps in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by mmiichael]

Israel was set up by criminal thugs ( the Stern Gang ) and it still is run by criminal thugs. Remember these guys killed the British ambassador for speaking out about the atrocities committed by the " early settlers" on the disarmed population. Using ships meant for food supplies to import guns from Europe instead. The first terrorists actions in the region was by Jewish settlers, not by the Palestinians. They can never change that history, and because of that I will never support their right to defend themselves. If one day they wish to address this then my opinion will change. But to deny or ignore it puts them right up there with Holocaust deniers.

Note: I suppose I would be labeled a terrorist if someone stole my land, because instead of being led away like a cowardly lamb to the slaughter I would use every possible means at my disposal to kill the perpetrators.

OP...

Every time someone rams this down the throat of scum that apologies, or even worse , try to justify Israel's behavior the better I say. And they always do the same old attack , never answering direct questions. Why ? Because anyone who supports such actions are con-artists and cowards on every imaginable level, even their soul is corrupt. I have had that type right in front of me and the best they can do is stare at their feet, never in the eye.

The truth will get out and they will be crushed. Their arrogance will not save them, and they go to bed every night knowing this and praying tomorrow is not the day the hammer is coming down.

]

[edit on 023131p://f59Friday by Selahobed]

[edit on 033131p://f02Friday by Selahobed]

I have to go to work mad now, i will be back later.



[edit on 033131p://f02Friday by Selahobed]

Originally posted by chiron613
You could find similar photos of Japanese, German, or Italian casualties from WW II. Does that make the US like Nazis? I don't think so.

Any country forcing their will upon another is being like the Nazis.

Originally posted by chiron613
Germany had a policy of extermination against certain civilian minorities, among them Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and the disabled. They routinely rounded up these people, shipped them off to camps, and gassed them or worked them to death in slave labor camps. Israel does none of this.

You need to read the historical quotes from Israeli leaders since the inception of the Israeli State. The extermination of Palestinians is what was and still is intended.

Originally posted by chiron613
The barbed wire images from Germany are for camps. The barbed wire images from Israel were from a barrier with Palestinian territory, in order to reduce the number of terrorists that could cross over into Israel and kill unarmed civilians. The reason Israel is doing this is because Palestinians have actually done this. It's not some vague, theoretical threat they're addressing; it's a reality.

.......... The various governments of Palestine have vowed that exact thing, to wipe Israel off the map.

It does not matter what the causes were, the actions of the determined and armed State are similar and so are the images.

What are the Palestinians fighting for with rocks sticks and rockets?

Could it be they are fighting to retain some form of homeland?

Would you also fight for your homeland if it was handed over to your traditional enemy? Yes you would, and you would use any means at your disposal, just as the Palestinians have been doing.

They are fighting for their survival and they know it.

Originally posted by chiron613
Israel targets armed militia and soldiers, and sometimes winds up killing civilians. Palestinian terrorists (and other terrorists) target civilians, and avoid soldiers.

People fighting for their homeland are not Terrorists, they are Freedom Fighters. Using the word Terrorist to describe these people is showing the homogenised beliefs we have been indoctrinated into having by the plaything of TPTB, the Media.

Israel targets whatever it wants and tells the world what it wants us to believe.

Starving people already suffering is an act of war more seditious to humanity than killing them with bombs. A bomb is a quick death, while being forcibly starved by another nation's intent only creates more hatred of that nation as it turns the other way so as not to see what it is doing to those less fortunate.

I do not support either side in the war between Israel and Palestine. I support human rights for all people. I support seeing both sides of the coin to prevent us from being a one-eyed, opinionated individuals thinking they know it all.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


does this sound familiar ....the world was made on ware and hate...

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


sorry war ! so it sounds if you hate the jews....if so why ? is it there fault they are where they are, and so,..how do fix the problem . hmmmm!

One positive aspect of this lazy, bigoted, divisive thread is that I've found lots of new people to add to my Friends list.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Israel was set up by criminal thugs ( the Stern Gang ) and it still is run by criminal thugs. Remember these guys killed the British ambassador for speaking out about the atrocities committed by the " early settlers" on the disarmed population.

Nice try.

I think you're talking about Walter Edward Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne, British minister of state in the Middle East who was assassinated in November 1944.

Points of dispute, historians who have actually studied the documentation seem to think the rage directed at Moyne had to do with placating Arabs by blocking millions of Jews from escaping Nazi controlled Eastern Europe to the British Mandate of Palestine.

en.wikipedia.org...

Joel Brand, a member of the Jewish-Hungarian Aid and Rescue Committee, approached the British in April 1944 with a proposal from Adolf Eichmann, the SS officer in charge of deporting Hungary's Jews to Auschwitz. Eichmann's so-called "blood for trucks" proposal was that the Nazis would release up to one million Jews in exchange for 10,000 trucks and other goods from the Western Allies.

Brand was arrested and taken to Cairo, where he was questioned for several months. Brand reported that during one of the interrogations an English man he didn't know had asked him about Eichmann's proposal, then replied

"What can I do with a million Jews? Where can I put them?".

On leaving the room, Brand reported, his military escort had told him that the man who had made that remark was Lord Moyne.

[...]

British policy would not allow more than about 15,000 Jews each year to settle in Palestine. Moyne also claimed that Palestine was far too small and already overcrowded to accommodate millions of Jews from Europe

[edit on 9-10-2009 by mmiichael]

Sorry you are right, I was getting him mixed up with the 1948 assassination of the UN mediator Folke Bernadotte.

That's the problem with the devil , he is ongoing and so messy I cant keep up

Anyway if you look at their leaders teachings they made it perfectly clear by the 1920s ( the Zionist movement in Europe long before the Holicaust ) they were planning to wage war to take as much land as possible. And kill any Arab that got in their way, plus anybody else who questioned their methods ( which included lobbying grenades into Arab houses willy nilly at night time ).

All the leaders that survived were not only given military posts but one of them Yitzhak Shamir became Israels Prime Minister. I think that speaks volumes about the kind of people who live every day on stolen land. After a while even voting for a monster seems acceptable. Kind of like those who still think what Israel does is acceptable. They have no soul and already live on the dark side.

Note: I have never in all my years been looked in the eye and been told what the Stern Gang did was not evil. If anyone here wants to not mumble, stumble or change the subject , I would love to hear an Israel supporter give it a try.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


The Turks owned the land prior to WWI, but there was a sizeable Jewish population there already who had built farms, homes, factories, hospitals and provided well paid employment, education and medical care for the local Arab population. The region was called Southern Syria and was part of the Ottoman Empire. The Turks lost their Empire because they sided with the Germans in the first world war.

The British governed the land prior to 1948 on behalf of the League of Nations. During WWII the British were complicit in limiting Jewish refugees, afraid of uprisings from the Arabs, meaning many were sent back to Eastern Europe to their deaths.

By that time the Jews already had their own instruments of government. There was already a Jewish majority.

The Arabs got their own country - it was called Jordan. The Jews got their own country. It was called Israel.

While Jordan kicked out all of its Jewish residents, Israel gave its Arab residents citizenship and equal rights.

Since then the Arabs have made it their sole political purpose to drive the Jews out. First four countries attacked Israel in 1948 with that purpose. Then three countries in 1967. Then two countries in 1973. Since then the method has mostly been guerilla warfare and terrorist attacks against civilians.

The situation today is tragic unpleasant for everyone. There is suffering on all sides. It is a result of over 100 years of history, which needs to be understood if you are to understand the present.

Slogans and vilification do not make the situation easier to understand or solve. They just add to the hatred.

There is a lot of hatred evident on this thread. Hatred is the propagandist's ultimate objective. When you have sufficient people hating your enemy you can do whatever you want to them.

Look into your heart. If you find yourself hating Israel because of these pictures then you have been manipulated, which is the purpose.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by mattpryor]

I think no one like to discuss the Jewish plight during those years, especially since most of the so called " good " countries were implicit in the Holocaust. Everyone loves to forget how they closed off the borders in quite clearly anti-Jewish immigration policies.

But for a people who claim to be persecuted everywhere they go, for them to turn around and persecute others is unacceptable, and in my eyes makes them worse than those who they call evil. Much much worse.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


No, you just asked how Israel was created. I don't think you showed hatred towards Jews in your post. Possibly an over-reaction there. Everyone's a bit sensitive. Let's try to keep it moderate.

I gave you an overview of how Israel was created. Does it change your view at all?

reply to post by mattpryor


I guess I understand whats going on, but didnt jews and palestenians live peacefully before 1948 like you said. There really was no need for creation of either jordan or israel. It seems that is what has been causing the problems.

Notice that fathead just joined today: Look at his registration date. He joined today just to spread his bigotry and hate, i say ban him.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by THE_PROFESSIONAL]

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
I have never in all my years been looked in the eye and been told what the Stern Gang did was not evil. If anyone here wants to not mumble, stumble or change the subject , I would love to hear an Israel supporter give it a try.

That's a problem of the people you talk with.

At the time they operated the Stern Gang believed they were morally justified in forcefully convincing the British it was in their best interest to cede control of the Palestinian Mandate. They saw the British as willful impediments of Jews immigrating during and after the War.

In hindsight we can be critical of their harsh methods, just as we can criticize Arab leaders for collaborating with the Nazis in the extermination of Jews, German Americans for acting as Fifth Columns for their mother country, the US for dropping atomic bombs on Japan, Italy for aligning itself with the Nazis. Even the British for refusing to allow Jews to escape certain death by coming to Palestine. Even suicide bombers and the people lobbing thousands of missiles at Israeli towns feel justification in the murder fo innocent people. And many other historical junctures where people felt they were at war, and murder was considered a viable option for furthering a political cause or even survival.

Extreme situations produce extreme measures. Germans and Americans recognize their past differences, so did Italy, the Japanese and Americans do the same, the British and Israeli acknowledge previous conflicts.

That's what mature countries and cultures do. Carrying historical hatreds for generations even centuries is what underdeveloped people do.

You're the one applying the word Evil here. Why is it only Evil when it's done by Jews, and not others?


M



[edit on 9-10-2009 by mmiichael]