The Reality of College

Really is it necessary? no.
Has it helped me out with finding work? yes.

Just by having an engineering degree I have had way more opportunities than my some of my friends who did go to college or got non sense degree's. Also making 4 times as much. So its hard for me to arge against going to school for that reason.

As for what all I learned in college... thats another story. Some of my engineering tests were so hard that the class average was 40 out of 100... How s anyone learning anything in a class like this. They would just curve the grades to compensate...

reply to post by prestonposthuma


yeah, i plan to major in neuroscience to conduct research on certain mental diseases and disorders, that i know what i'm doing.
as for the social scene, i was worried if it was really hostile and cliquey as he had described. I'm one to mingle around, and if people are really snobby in college i could always relocate to college closer to home with a more social atmosphere. you know? id rather skip the hostility.

It sounds like you did not find the right college or program or major. I am very surprised when so many people around me want to go to the "BiG" Universities when there is so much choice out there. Small liberal arts colleges can help you find the diversity, compelling instructors and personalized focus on your talents and major.

Anyone going to college just to get the piece of paper to make money...has wasted a wonderful experience. This is you chance to really explore ideas and take chances and work outside your comfort zone.

In my experience I never had any class which remotely resembled High School, but that was 17 years ago..

reply to post by prestonposthuma


It was mentioned before, college is all about partying and learning something along the way. You'll have the rest of your life to become uptight, let loose while you're still young.

From a financial perspective unless you are going into a technical highly skilled degree like Engineering, Medicine, Architecture college is a complete and utter waste of money. Think about it! 3/4 of everything you learn in college you can learn on your own with the right mindset and motivation. The best learners are the ones that are self motivated. I've learned more on my own and due to my own passion or interest than I EVER could have in college. In fact I've forgotten most of what I actually learned in college. Even most of the science and mathematics in US higher education is ridiculously and pathetically redundant. And we wonder why we are so behind many other countries in our public school education. College in the US has been dumbed down so much to make room for so many people who could barely get out of high school. Combine that with all the government free money and college has turned into one big business churning out degrees like a factory churns out widgets. Hell a bachelor's isn't even all that significant anymore. Many professions are requiring a master's to really go far.

But college is definitely needed, i.e. you need that stupid piece of paper to even get your foot in the door these days or to even get an interview with many employers. But college is WAY ovepriced for what you pay. I mean think about it. You could practically buy an entire library of books for what you pay in tuition and fees. And let's face it for the most part that's basically what college is.......4 more years of sticking your nose in a book and listening to some other know it all tell you about the world and life. I hated college and I went to 2 major universities and 2 community colleges. My first year biology and psychology and pretty much all my undergraduate classes were a complete and utter joke. Much of my undergrad until I switched majors was done at CU Boulder. Beautiful and very fun school but the quality of education SUCKED at the undergraduate level.

College in no way shape or form prepares you for the real world or a real job unless again you are going into a heavy math or science related field. Liberal arts? Oh brother! Don't even get me started. College needs to be much more efficient at teaching people what they need to know to acquire a job and make a living....I don't need to spend $10-$15K to listen to some overpaid lazy professor or worse TA telling me about how to be a more well rounded contributing member of society. I'll do that on my own for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And I haven't even brushed upon the subject of college athletics! Talk about a damn racket! What a joke! Sports is way too big of an influence in higher education in the US. No other place in the world is such an emphasis placed on sports as in the US at the university level.......typical.

I agree with you 100% OP

But... you need the god damn letters to be taken seriously.

Learning?

Pthhhhhhhhh Thanks ofr the Internet the Library Card and access to anything I might ever want to learn for next to nothing.

I should have 10 degrees if knowledge was what it was about...

And Money? Pthhhhhhhh again,some claim jobs, but i'm an entrepreneur, I stopped higher ed pursuits because I was making more than i ever would have in a Lab Coat lol

BUT

Now a bit older....

Good luck publishing and being accepted without that PHD regurgitated in front of a panel of Intellectual conformists

so at 39 i'm going back and blowing a wad of money for those higher letters...

My advice?

It's a good place to be in your 20's even if it delays getting on with your life, you can learn faster on your own and make money anyway.... it's still the best place ever to meet the opposite sex and go out and eat and live cheep...

Actually it kind of rocks...

So stick it through and go as far as possible even if it's a rip off short term it's still fun and your going to need the advanced letters... Trust me.

College isn't for everyone despite what governments and society is pushing down our young people's throats constantly. University/college should be for people going into the sciences. Instead, we teach our children that the only way to succeed is to get a degree, get into debt and then be a slave to a career so you can fulfill your dream of "buying" a house and getting even further into debt.

Success in life is tied up with wealth in our society. College is seen as a stepping stone to wealth. Our young people are made to believe that it is the only thing that matters, damn the consequences.

I went to Large and well known university for a short while. I had a lot of pressure from my parents to be a "success". I had the grades to get in, and I had a government grant. But in the end it just wasn't for me.

Had I finished I may have been allowed onto the merry go around that is acedemia, with all it's associated pressures, stresses and wealth. Instead, I make a very modest salary, live in a one bedroom apartment, and don't have a car. But guess what?

I am freaking happy! Instead of working my tail off trying to further my career I am travelling the world. Instead of worrying about student loan debts or mortagages I am using my money on myself, to do with as I please, not as I am obligated by debt.

Wealth as in indicator of success is our societies major flaw. It's time we showed our children that there is another way. That happiness does not come exclusivley to riches.

College isn't for everyone, and shouldn't be for everyone. Afterall, the world needs plumbers, plasterers, childcare workers, check out girls, office workers, gas station attendents and refrigerator repairmen too.

And despite what society shoves down our throats constantly, us invoice processors can be happy too!

Its interesting to question if university learning will apply to you overall in life.

One could simply state that you will attend no schooling whatsoever unless it applies to a predictable life you will lead...therefore if you grow up in a farm, you will only learn irrigation principles, animal husbandry, etc...
if you grow up in a military family, basic reading skills, some physics, some law, and lots of physical fitness...(why the hell does some future grunt need to learn history or literature anyhow)

Education may appear when your getting it (core) useless, but it also allows you to rise above your group or steriotype...why do we teach general classes for a common level of education? mostly for fairness I would think.

Also, attending and pushing through college will enforce a motivation in your life...you dont *have* to goto college, and when your in the workforce, you dont *have* to excel at your job, or put effort into it...its a choice and having a degree proves to future employeers that you are motivated and not afraid of hard, at times redundant and unrelated work for the overall goal.

Its easy to get fed up with the moment and become blinded by the bigger picture, but one quick way to figure it out is simple...if you ran a company, would you hire someone to do a important task whom jumped out of school because he got bored of it or it was too much pressure? All the innate talent in the world will not make up for inability to count on a person to plod on.

Colleges have become a huge money making scam.

And yes, I have a degree well actually 2, but they are mostly for higher learning and what college was originally intended. Most of my money making skills were learning as an apprentice.

Back in the day if someone wanted to learn a trade, or skill in a particular business they apprenticed for a master in that field. Today we have a bunch of book learned teachers who profess mostly theory, and have very little "hands on" or "on the job training".

College today seems to be a remedial learning place for what most individuals did not get in High school, like English, Reading, Writing and Math. That is sad.

The reason I am able to speak about college from then and now is I take classes once a year for fun. The cost of books is unreal. $300 plus for one book? This is a scam and the administration knows it. Does it stop at the books. No! The scam continues right through the entire system.

When I graduated from college back in the mid 80's I was able to pay any debt I had off in about 1 year. Most people I know today are in huge debt from college, to the tune of about 40k plus. WTF!

I have friends with masters, PhD's walking the streets right now. Many papers pushers are finding pink slips in their mail boxes. Someone has to do the manual labor in this country, but most people have forgotten how or think it is above them.

If you want a taste of reality about scams and to many paper pushers, you only need look at the housing market, banking system, loans, stock market, people know deep down what is right.

Stick to your gut instinct, it never lies.



[edit on 6-10-2009 by Realtruth]

College should be Mandatory, And Covered by our Nation, Its only the most important thing we could ever do with ourselves as a race of intelligent beings.

The part I do not get nor understand, isn't the Course topics and subject matter, but the fact that once you go through all that trouble and heartache, Your Degree doesn't seem to do much more then if you had skiped college and just got the experience in the Certain field you were interested in. Actually most of the time, a college degree will be looked over for someone with experience, makes you feel good huh

So we have College grads, working at Jiffy lube, or Pool Cleaning places, Big Advancement from a Degree to a 13/hr job.

With that being said, College doesn't mean better pay and better jobs, Knowing People, being a relative, or just contacting a company directly with your skill portfolio, seems to be the only way to get a job now.

That is unless you want a 15 / hr job or less, but you just need to compete with other people with High school diplomas or GEDs. Or even a Lack of that.






[edit on 6-10-2009 by 1000101110]

[edit on 6-10-2009 by 10001011]

I'm a college student right now and having same feelings as the O.P. I attended a state university last year, which was downright awful. (Some) professors printed up their own textbooks, made you buy them, except they were so poorly written they were impossible to really learn anything from. Nasty food that actually got me to lose 15 pounds and not gain it, and a place where everyone went home on the weekends. Did I pick the wrong school? Maybe. But this year I'm at community college and see the same old B.S. Greedy professors who don't really give a rats a** as long as they get a paycheck and just boring, pointless classes that I can't focus on at all. And in both places, you can really tell--most people do not really want to be in college (well besides for the partying) and it's all just cramming and passing tests, not really learning anything.Hell, I fall into the same category especially seeing how "worthless" a degree is, especially in today's society. Most jobs would not need a degree (exceptions being doctors, scientists, lawyers, and the like)...it's on-the-job training that teaches people most of their skills. And with today's economy, good luck finding a job with or without a degree, and it is not getting better any time soon.

Originally posted by prestonposthuma
First off, I'll say that I'm speaking from personal experience, and from what I've seen after my personal college experience has begun. With that said, here it goes.

I'll begin with the preparation process. For anybody else who has gone through college in any way, it's an understatement to say I wasn't sure what to expect. I was expecting to experience what many people describe as "the best years of your life". This is what college truly consists of:

1. Redundant. Everyone who tells you college is so much different from high school is wrong. Still the same amount of busy work that really doesn't teach you much. So far, every class I've been in has bored me to the point of sleep. It's almost as if all they want is for you to recite what you're told, jump through the hoops and you're good.

2. Professional Level Snobbery. Everyone envisions a professor who provides insight into important topics. This isn't true. Every professor I've had puts out a snob attitude. The whole "I'm better than you" mindset plagues them. Making class even less enjoyable. The fact that nearly everything involving school seems impersonal is a huge downfall.

3. Sheep. People that tell you college is a wonderland of diversity, for the most part, are lying to you. Everyone (mostly everyone, there are a few exceptions) cares about partying or studying nonstop. Like I said exceptions yes, but few and far between mind you.

4. Sports. I attend a larger University and one thing is definitely certain here, sports are the most important thing on campus. Me being a sports fan, but not a huge one, is almost like a strike against me in a way. At the new student convocation, we were told to study and support the sports teams. Somebody isn't trying to make money now are they?

5. Material. I currently have a history class and all the material I'm taught is the history that is published in textbooks. Why are we not taught the history that really happened? Not the history of the few who have the power to write it.

6. Relevance. Statistics show that half of what you learn in your first year is outdated information by your third year. What true use is that? Another HUGE point is why take the range of classes that are required? If you are majoring in computer engineering, you're required to take an english composition course. What true use is that?

So, if anyone here is wishing they had gone to college, or if anyone is thinking about it, take this into consideration. Is it worth the time? Is my heart in it? Do I truly want to do it? While yes, I am learning about a broad range of topics, will these do me any good in the real world?

I cannot agree with almost anything you just said. I just graduated less than a year ago and everything you said is not only discouraging to anyone who reads it, but mostly untrue. In response:

1. I'm going to assume you're in your first 2 years of "gen ed" classes where EVERYONE on campus takes the same classes to get a very broad base of learning. This also can help many students find their niche and what they're interested in. I went in as an MIS major and came out an HR one BECAUSE of some of the gen ed's I took. If it's past your 2nd year, then you're simply studying the wrong thing as the second 2 years should be interesting, thought provoking and engaging.

2. I find it hard to believe that every professor you have had is a snob. If so, then the institution you're learning at isn't for you. I had some amazing professors in college, to the point where not only would they be helpful in and outside of the classroom, but we became friends. My one professor mentored me into the job I have today and we still keep in touch frequently via email or lunch. Another professor actually attended a happy hour with the class once the semester is over so we could "level" with him about what he did all semester and what we liked, didn't like, etc. but in a harmless setting.

3. Everyone cares about partying or studying? Do you not have campus activities? Don't you have a student gov't? I KNOW there are diversity related groups and programs within your school. Hell, even every community college I've heard of has them. Just because you don't actively look for diversity doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

4. Ummm sporting events are fun. Of course the school is going to try to make money, but treat it as a privilege instead of a burden. Not everyone gets the privilege of watching what you can watch all the time, up close and personal. My school was a D3, but we LOVED saturday football games, tailgating, meeting new people, etc. I'm not sure how you see this as a detriment either.

5. Again, maybe this is your institutions fault, or your professors. We were ENCOURAGED to think outside of the box, formulate questions, question the norm and try to get out of the general mindset of "everyday thinking". It really just sounds like the college you chose is not right for you.

6. MANY things are outdated in several years. Take Moore's Law for example (technology doubles every 6 mo.). What can we do about this though? The world isn't going to slow down and I feel it's your own personal responsibility to keep up with the times and emerging knowledge.

For anyone considering college, I URGE you to go. I can honestly say, it WAS the best 4 years of my life. I made amazing friends, got a great degree, learned a ton, had experiences that will never be duplicated (good and bad) and got involved in networking that, to this day, is invaluable.

I understand college is not for everyone, and to those who are up in the air, I encourage you to think long and hard before committing. I remember the 3rd day of school during our "dorm floor meeting" a girl cried and cried and cried until she left school 3 days in. Again, it's not for everyone, but for people who really want a life experience, you can shape those 4, 5 or 6 years into the best of your life if you try hard enough.

All I can really add...

I attended only 1 yerar of college out of high school. I didn't feel like I learned anything that I could take with me. It felt like 4 years of hard work for a colorful sheet of paper you place in a picture frame.

And will that get you a job fresh out of college? Hell no.. Experience is far greater college every time you apply for a job. Combine the 2 and you are set for life.

Work your butt off to get a good internship while in college and you will come out a made man.

Originally posted by prestonposthuma
First off, I'll say that I'm speaking from personal experience, and from what I've seen after my personal college experience has begun. With that said, here it goes.

I'll begin with the preparation process. For anybody else who has gone through college in any way, it's an understatement to say I wasn't sure what to expect. I was expecting to experience what many people describe as "the best years of your life". This is what college truly consists of:

1. Redundant. Everyone who tells you college is so much different from high school is wrong. Still the same amount of busy work that really doesn't teach you much. So far, every class I've been in has bored me to the point of sleep. It's almost as if all they want is for you to recite what you're told, jump through the hoops and you're good.

2. Professional Level Snobbery. Everyone envisions a professor who provides insight into important topics. This isn't true. Every professor I've had puts out a snob attitude. The whole "I'm better than you" mindset plagues them. Making class even less enjoyable. The fact that nearly everything involving school seems impersonal is a huge downfall.

3. Sheep. People that tell you college is a wonderland of diversity, for the most part, are lying to you. Everyone (mostly everyone, there are a few exceptions) cares about partying or studying nonstop. Like I said exceptions yes, but few and far between mind you.

4. Sports. I attend a larger University and one thing is definitely certain here, sports are the most important thing on campus. Me being a sports fan, but not a huge one, is almost like a strike against me in a way. At the new student convocation, we were told to study and support the sports teams. Somebody isn't trying to make money now are they?

5. Material. I currently have a history class and all the material I'm taught is the history that is published in textbooks. Why are we not taught the history that really happened? Not the history of the few who have the power to write it.

6. Relevance. Statistics show that half of what you learn in your first year is outdated information by your third year. What true use is that? Another HUGE point is why take the range of classes that are required? If you are majoring in computer engineering, you're required to take an english composition course. What true use is that?

So, if anyone here is wishing they had gone to college, or if anyone is thinking about it, take this into consideration. Is it worth the time? Is my heart in it? Do I truly want to do it? While yes, I am learning about a broad range of topics, will these do me any good in the real world?

I am not going to write much, but I assume you are a freshman and you obviously have not talked to your professors at all.

Of course all the lower classes are crap classes redundant classes. The longer you are in college the more harder the classes get, this isn't highschool kid. Those gen ed classes will be done away with about 2 years into your college career.

But professors are *ALWAYS* to help you out and are more than willing to help you out otherwise they would not be teaching at all. This goes for all universities even the large ones.

As for studying "sheep" good luck because the more you study the better your grade is. This is not bullsh#$ highschool where you can study 5 minutes before the exam and expect a B or an A. Studying reflects your grade and your understanding of the material, even if you do all your homework and stuff its what you understand that makes a difference you can do a repetition of a problem a milliion times and MEMORIZE it but you may not UNDERSTAND it.

I am 3rd year student ..

[edit on 6-10-2009 by fordrew]

[edit on 6-10-2009 by fordrew]

Just wanted to interject my 2 cents on the matter. There once was a time when I shared many of your observations. However, now that I am older, wiser and more experienced I take issue with several of your points. First and foremost your post is filled with hasty generalizations. College is about WHERE you go to school; the atmosphere, the philosophy of the institution and the quality of the personnel running it and attending it. And college is WHAT YOU make of it.

I was blessed enough to attend a very small Jesuit university in a small town. True it had its demands to conform to certain standards - but doesn't the real world also share similar expectations. So from that perspective I call that "Good training for the real world". The school was founded on the principle "Luceat Lux Vestra" meaning literally to become a person for others. The entire foundation for the educational experience was built upon logic and language, ethics, philosophy and liberal arts. At the time I simply viewed that as "Filler", a way for the university to keep me around longer to collect more tuition. However, with time comes maturity and that maturity has brought a greater awareness that those courses HAVE, in fact, helped me to develop into the man I am today - more introspective, analytical and questioning. It is also worth pointing out that those foundation courses have given me an internal library of knowledge to draw upon and apply to the real world. As a result I can have intelligent conversations with a diverse group of people on a broad range of topics. This will give you credibility and respect as a professional down the road.

Now the counter-point... Too many large public universities have become people-mills designed to serve the interest of the university as opposed to the interest of the students. I say "Too many" because certainly not all of them have and even the ones that have still offer good educational opportunities for those willing to seperate themselves from the game-playing. I personally believe that the reason behind this cultural shift is due to the fact that these larger institutions have become politicized; publicly funded, tenure, subjected to state and federal legislation etc... Once you see and understand that you are in a better position to maximize the benefit you receive from the experience.

On a final note, college is EXCELLENT preparation for the real world, and a great deal of fun! There are expectations that one have a degree for legitimate reasons: That you can complete an arduous task, that you are able to conform to standards, that you are teachable, that you can read and write and apply critical thinking. These are NOT skills taught in HS but developed through the college experience. With all of that being said, college is NOT for everyone. If you are an individual who prefers to focus on singularities and become proficient at a specific task or trade then perhaps vocational education or an apprenticeship better suits your needs. The point is that although the benefits of college may not be immediately evident to you know, you will grow as a result of this process later. It is an investment of time, money, spirit, energy and intellect. I wish you all the best of luck in selecting a path most appropiate to each of you.

reply to post by prestonposthuma


S&F. I attended a freshman orientation to UNT in Denton, TX this year in August. I was planning on starting classes a few weeks later. Didn't happen. Know why? I could tell almost immediately that the place was a stagnant pool of everything I hate. Everything you mentioned in your post. I am a veteran, a husband, and a father. I am not an immature high school brat. Yet they placed me in that group immediately and treated me like a child. That turned me off so fast, I left orientation before it was over and never went back.

Originally posted by OrphenFire
reply to post by prestonposthuma

 

S&F. I attended a freshman orientation to UNT in Denton, TX this year in August. I was planning on starting classes a few weeks later. Didn't happen. Know why? I could tell almost immediately that the place was a stagnant pool of everything I hate. Everything you mentioned in your post. I am a veteran, a husband, and a father. I am not an immature high school brat. Yet they placed me in that group immediately and treated me like a child. That turned me off so fast, I left orientation before it was over and never went back.

You went to a freshman orientation, what are you going to expect? Its for kids leaving highschool and entering college. Freshman orientation is NOT mandatory no matter what they tell you. Of course they are going to have icebreaker games and all that junk and dumb immature games because it is designed for teenagers entering college not grown men. The classrooms and professors are more professional mostly.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by fordrew]

Yes, America has a horrible educational system that gets a little worse every year. A few years ago, I took a government class at my local community college. I always browse the textbook first day, to see what material will be covered and to sort of mentally prep. First day, I flip to a page and read a chapter which states the following: The average college graduate of today is less knowledgeable than the average high-school graduate of the 1960's! That was enough for me to realize my intuitions of school being junk was correct. I left promptly after, and never looked back.

Our educational system has been dumbed down over the years. Whether it's an intentional agenda or not, I haven't a clue. What I do know is that education has taken on the corporate business model, of always showing results through improvement. This continuous improvement comes at the price of sacrificing quality education. All schools have to reach a certain mark, or else they lose certain financial privileges, at least this is my limited understanding.

Basically, while the US has been busy worrying about false indications of improvement, many other countries have got their act together and surpassed us a long time ago. Some of the best schools are no longer in the US.

The solution is not throwing more money at the problem. The solution for education is to adapt to the change in consciousness of our youth. They are light-years ahead of their teachers in many ways. They need someone to reach them at their level. As they process. Until this is done, the divide will produce only mindless hacks that do as they're told, or choose not to be programmed into an old way of thinking.

School is a joke, period!

I share every sentiment you've written about man. What sucks for me is...I'm a graduate student. So multiply your college concerns by 50 and you get my daily stale bread. And that explains why I rarely have the time for ATS.

This is the way I view it (to keeping from quitting or just plain killing myself): suck it now so you can benefit from it later. For instance, I'm a history major..because of exactly what you said. I'm going to put up with the protocols and outdated texts/research/mind numbing topics for the next year or so...so I can read and write about what I feel necessary for the rest of my life. It just makes you that much more credible to people who wouldn't necessarily take a CT or free thinker seriously. This is the desired outcome:

"Oh, you have this knowledge or these opinions but you have a college degree??"

"Maybe I should learn something instead of saying the pledge of allegiance before I sit down in my la z boy eating a half gal of rocky road while watching dancing with the stars"

That is why I suffer now through the same conditions you've recognized. So my suggestion is keep on if you think 'keeping on' may benefit you in the near future. Looking back on undergrad, I have no idea how I survived 4 years in a progrom that wasnt designed for ease like marketing, business, etc.

I understand some of the corse requirements, I actually double majored in English and Computer Science. The reason for that was I need to be able to convey my ideas and thoughts more fluently, it makes a huge difference in the work force believe me.

But after my personal feelings, college in all truth is a joke. All that you are paying for is that paper, once you get that piece of paper it does not matter what career track you go.
My buddy is a theatre major and he currently works for a computer company as a release coordinator for the french website.

Go figure eh?