SurvivalIsts? (Come On~!)

The only good use for the locksmith picks is getting through the pesky forest service road gates and leaving them locked behind you,

Otherwise they are of little use. Most homes can be opened with a foot or a brick.

And the places that cannot will take heavy break in tools and skills because they will have good doors and high grade locks.(police dept gun lockers, gun safes, banks vaults,????? ) Who has the time to pick a good high security lock.
Those tools i can get from the fire station.

I am going with the fella building the Huck Finn raft!

Not sure where it will take us, but will head south.

Looking for a small uninhabited island.

We can grab a conch for lunch and I plan to train a monkey to fetch coconuts.

reply to post by ANNED


An Axe and Halligan are the ultimate lock picks in my opinion.

Any FF can pop a trunk or door with them in 5 seconds flat.

Probies don't count.




[edit on 10/5/2009 by reticledc]

How about this idea......I have a 5 year old, and without make up I look about 10 because I am only 4'8...... (this is a halloween laugh really)

we totally lock oursleves in the house, and wheneer one of the survival rambo's knocks on our door, we both go look out the glass, and stare like zombies, and then each pop one of those fake blood capsules in our mouths and start scratching at the window.....lol....

Diseased kids!!! run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well there's always two sides to the story isn't there.

As another person that you are mentioning on this thread specifically designed for bashing folk I appreciate the opportunity you've provided to clear things up.

First let me build some perspective. Although we tried to explain to you during the several times you attempted to derail the thread it was actually about escape and evasion equipment not survival or BOB gear which had been discussed in several other threads and was specifically being avoided in that thread.

You also assumed that the gear was specifically for survival situations or criminal activity however you failed to realize that some of us have jobs which place us in situations that make such equipment useful on a regular basis. In fact none of the equipment I mentioned in that thread ever ends up in my BOB (though I find it so useful that it would likely get tossed in a pocket on the way out the door). If it did however I would gladly pit my thermal imager against the shampoo, spatula, comb/brush, salt and pepper shaker you listed as essential emergency equipment along with what I am guessing is dozens of pounds of other stuff. What the heck, here's your entire list:

Originally posted by AlaskaFranke
A TYPICAL BUG OUT BAG SHOULD HAVE:

EMERGENCY FIRE MAKING KIT:
Waterproof Matches
Disposable Lighter
Candle
Fire Starting Cubes
Magnifying Glass

EMERGENCY FISHING KIT:
#10 Fishing Line
#16 Fishing Line
Treble Hooks
Single Hooks
Sinkers (Assorted Weight)
6’ x 6’ Gill net

TENT & GEAR REPAIR KIT:
Tire Patches
Goop Jelly
Compact Sewing Kit
Duct Tape
Electrical Tape
Bailing Wire
Screen (Patch) Material

TOILETRIES KIT:
Toilet Tissue
Sanitary Wipes
Hand/Face Soap
Comb/Brush
Small Mirror
Shampoo (Small Bottle)
Anti-Septic Wipes

FIRST AID KIT:
Standard First Aid Kit Components
Emergency Suture Kit
Prescription Medicines
Emergency Dental Kit
Iodine Tablets
Over-The-Counter Pain medication

WEAPONS CLEANING KIT:
Gun Cleaning Solvent
Gun Lubrication Oil
Patches
Bore Brushes (Assorted Size)
Bore Swabs (Assorted Size)
Cleaning Rod & Handle
Wire Bristle Brush
Q-Tips
Silicone Wipes

MESS KIT W/ EXTRA’S:
Eating Utensils
P-38 Can Opener
Spatula
Pot Gripper
Cheese Cloth
Salt & Pepper Shaker
Plastic (Roll Up) Cutting Board

Lensatic Compass
Binoculars
Ka-Bar Knife
Leatherman/Gerber Knife
Sharpening Steel
Entrenching Tool w/ Carrier
Folding Bow saw w/ extra Blades
Eastwind 26” Camper’s Hatchet
(Large) Utility Knife
Waterproof Pack Bags
GI Rain Ponchos
Camper’s Bungee Cords
Cyalume Chemical “Snap” Lights
GI Heat Tabs
Folding “Tommy” Stove
Jungle Canteens w/ Carriers
Water Purification System w/ extra Filter
Nylon (7/16” x 50’) Rope
Mini-mag-lite Flashlight w/ Carrier
Parachute/50-50 Cord (50’ Spool)
Mosquito Head net
Insect Repellent
Battery Operated Portable Radio
2-man Mountain (Dome) Tent
-20 Sleeping Bag w/ Cover & Fleece Liner
Bear Spray

Freeze Dried Food Packs
Meals, Ready To Eat


MRE's weight about 1lb to 1.5Lbs per pack. Freeze Dried food packs weight anywhere from 4.2 to 9.8 oz (1 Man meals)


The above equipment list will weigh about 56 Lbs alotgether, and doesn't include weapons or ammo.

Hey was that a radio I saw in there? What was that poisonous hi tech gizmo doing adding weight to your pack? Don't you know it is going to fail the very moment you depend on it to keep you alive?

Now I'm not a big guy, but I am in shape since I walk up and down mountains with a bunch of climbing gear on a regular basis and have been for over 29 years but a 56 pound bag is uncomfortable after a couple of hours and it sure slows me down so what is it going to do for the common person?

I camp quite a bit too and by that I mean besides a hammock, bedroll, tarp, Knife, hatchet pot and fire starter I'm living off of what I find around me. But I cant ever recall being in a situation where I thought "gee, I sure don't know what I'm going to do now that I left my bottle of shampoo at home. How am I going to get through this? If I had a spatula maybe I could compensate, dang!".

Anyway, you are right. I don't need a thermal imager with me. But it is handy for several reasons and since I have the room for it I choose to have it along. If it fails well I can toss it. If it doesn't (and it shouldn't because its mil spec because the military finds gizmos useful too) then I can use it to help me spot potential hostiles (including animals), forecast the weather, see the terrain at night, diagnose injuries and illness, spot game, spot and signal potential rescue craft, navigate in darkness without the conspicuous use of a headlamp, locate sections of thin ice, track missing people, find avalanche victims, etc, etc, etc. All that and I can use it for my day job too!

Anyway, thanks for posting out of context so you can make fun of us all. I'm sure that is what ATS had in mind as a valid use of the forum. I hope you work on your people skills with the same passion you have for survival skills.

Edit for typo and to clarify

[edit on 6-10-2009 by dainoyfb]

Heh, lockpicking tools in an evironment that means no home owners just homes, , erm, wh not just kick the door in? If your a ''loner' or with a small party and all the homes are empty why the need for lockpicks? bash the door in and empty the house.

And yes I'm one of those 'part time survivalist' type characters, I think about it, I don't actually DO it, I'm overweight , old, an office worker and too busy to go learn how to make teepees on Wimbledon common..

I'd ( if I survived whatever calamity is incoming) stay at home, and wait, bide my time, I have enough supplies to feed and army, no you can't have my address. I have enough water to last a year in bottles. I constantly restock as I need to, with good stock rotation.
Yes I'd like a gun and bullets but they'd run out faster than a straight guy finding out he's in the blue oyster bar.

Tools that are easy to make or maintain are order of the day, yes gadgets would be handy albeit expensive right now, wait till you can loot the army barracks that will be deserted. Find guns on cops bodies on in their abandoned cars, or stations.

High tech means more to go wrong and more to worry about as you will be struggling to survive trying to find FOOD in the already looted stores.
Learn how to gardenin a square foot kind of way, that way if you can plant a potato 'field' in a square foot box in your kitchen your all set IMHO , plant fruit and veg suitable to your own local climate, but in the meantime as they take time to grow, stock up on basics, rice , pasta , water , dried food stuffs and supplements , then if TSHTF you can worry about getting all the kit together to go zombie hunting or fighting the NWO or aliens.
Just have the bare minimum should you have to vacate in a hurry, go back when its 'safe' to do so, have back up supplies at a parents / siblings or friends house , coz that way if your house burns down you've still go some stuff to get by on.

Dont go spending thousands of pounds or soon to be defunked Dollars buyoing all the gizmos and gadgets needed to invade Cuba, you'll only waste money and time planning for an event that may not actually happen, it may be something none of us have thought about? Like God coming down and saying " Your all going to die", that way nothing you have will save you. ...

Plan on what you could take in a rush, and then worry about it, the greatest and BEST tool you can have is your brain, after all if you have all this fantastic gear but no idea on how to use it, I don't fancy your chances much.
Learn what you can do, teach others, family members, go camping with them, teach them to keep fit, vary your diet, after all if we get used to macdonalds then all we'll look to eat as everything else will be 'not very nice' to eat.

reply to post by AlaskaFranke


I think "survivalists" vary as much as "ufologists" or any other "ists" out there. I think that there is certainly a large group of people that romanticize the idea of it and simply want to live out all of their action movie dreams. Others are obviously children that have no idea what they are talking about.

The idea of survival to me is on line with what you are getting at I think. I am not planning for any sort of "Mad Max" scenario. I am more interested in wilderness survival because I consider those skills to be valuable if you want to spend your life outdoors. This is applicable if you are a backpacker, a camper, or a person that wants to move out into the country far from neighbors.

I agree that you should prepare yourself to make it without modern items. If it needs batteries, you should learn how to live without it. If you can't do something without an electrical device, then you should figure out a different way to do it... or accept that you won't be able to do it at all.

That's all I have for now because I have to get back to making my raft.

reply to post by AlaskaFranke


I understand your point-of-view; my own strategy of preparation is a simplification of our lives NOW, before any adverse situation. I think there are likely quite a few folks that stock up or store goods who have not really tested out their systems. Those of us in the hurricane belt get an opportunity nearly every year to refine our systems, and every single time, m'Bride and I have made changes -- probably always will. I think for most a move toward self-sustainability -- regardless of what happens or not -- will likely benefit them. Our own BOB (bug-out boxes - plastic) are geared toward short-term needs (< 3 months), such as hurricane.

I agree that some items that folks claim are in their BOBs seem unnecessary or inappropriate FOR MY PURPOSES, however I do think that these kind of discussions are important, and with many variables being discussed, people can benefit from others' experience (or lack of it) and ideas. It shouldn't degrade into a BOB contest.

The number of people who could actually survive right now, pre-Sit X, with only their BOB are likely quite few. Perhaps just the term BOB is somewhat misleading anyway. When I lived in the city, I always carried a bag of stuff in the trunk of my car for various emergencies; it was invaluable after the Loma Prieta earthquake hit our area -- it didn't save my life, but did make working through the aftermath much easier.

Yes, I'm confident in our systems, and yet hardly a survival thread goes by that I don't glean some little nugget out of it. I think that's the true value of the survival threads -- exchange of ideas.

BTW, I may be mistaken about this, but I think I recall that the "raft" idea you quoted above was on a somewhat frivolous zombie-survival thread? Might be wrong about that.

p.s. my BOB is better than yours. kidding, I'm kidding

cheers Franke

Interesting thread. Even more interesting is that it was created out of spite based on a couple of items that someone chooses to carry in an urban E&E kit.

As for the lockpicks that everyone thinks are useless. If you know how to use them they are quicker, lighter, more quiet, and easier to carry than a 12 pound sledge that was suggested earlier in this thread. In the hands of the right person, a pick will gain you entry just as fast as a key in some situations. Best of all in an urban situation, you will not draw attention to yourself by banging on a steel door with a 12 pound sledge.

Different strokes for different folks. We all live and work in different environments. If you spend 12 hours a day in a Downtown skyscraper you are going to need a different set of skills from the person living in BFI. If your skyscraper is attacked, or catches on fire maybe you will need to access a locked area to get away. If you can use a pick efficiently, more power to you. Just another valuable skill to add to your repertoire.

Personally, I have been fascinated with locks since I was a kid. Some locks I can breach some I can't. It takes practice and for me it is just a little hobby that may come in handy beyond helping a neighbor get into their house without breaking a window.

To the OP, no need to get bitter and spiteful in this forum. You have nothing to prove beyond offering your advice. There are a lot of cooks in this kitchen. That's what makes it entertaining and educational.

I come here to escape the crap in the political forums.

edit to add:
I am fascinated by the assumption that if things to go bad that suddenly all buildings and homes will just be void of human occupants and that you can just enter and plunder at will. If the SHTF it is going to be a slow process and panicked defensive people will be a frequent site.

Suburban survival will be far more different than surviving in the bush. Most people will never make it far enough to get into the bush. That being said, you should take the time to get to know every in an out of your current environment. I have a wife and two young daughters and I don't know how far we could even get. I have plans to hunker down on the homestead if we can't get out of the area. If I was alone like many people who post on here seem to be it would be a different story.



[edit on 6-10-2009 by jibeho]

Let me tell you a quick story:
while training another countries army... we poor unequipped Marines would quietly follow along behind picking up the junk the simply got tired of humping around... food tools ammo yes even weapons... we didn't need to hit up supply for stuff we just came along behind that fledgling army and picked it up off the ground....

These want-a-be survivalists fall into that same category... have no clue what their doing and will wander around aimlessly until they get themselves in deep trouble...

Now I'm counting on following along and picking up their crap, some of it might just be useful??? at least as a trade goods.... SO I would thank you not to set these budding Rambo's straight, Who else are we going to get to openly walk a ridge line to check for snipers?

Hi! I read once what someone wrote about worrying that an EMP attack could occur while you're out driving. A nuclear physicist in the 60' s thru 90's for the government civil defense department now retired. They mentioned to always keepyour BOB in your trunk and pack it specifically to survive 72 hours. They mentioned water bottles made out of stainless steel, you can boil water in them, solar blankets, ponchos, shower caps, (for nuclear fall out), food, matches, underwear, socks, book, first aid kit, etc... The radio would probably burn up during a EMP, so take the battery out and wrap the radio and battery in aluminum foil. They said drive with your radio on, if it goes out and the car stops there's been an attack. They mentioned getting out and immediately disconnect your car battery. Look for shelter under an I pass bridge, etc. incase more nuclear attacks occur. They said buy a dosimeter and check the levels of radiation before you leave your shelter and try to go home. I tell you I had trouble sleeping after reading their ideas. Keep State maps in your car. Mace would be good, for all the hungry pets people have running loose. Someone else said a hammer was a good tool and weapon to include. Evasion would include other humans and animals. If you wear high heels, keep a sensible pair of boots and socks in your car always.

reply to post by dainoyfb


Well you are aware I hope that the E&E thread is NOT the only thread that you've been involved that some of us have come across.
And A few of the others in there.
I'm kind of curious as to why YOU think it's necessary for anyone to roam around in middle of the night in the city with your equipment in tow at this point and time.

You seem pretty tech savvy,but I have to question your motivations.
Are you wandering around looking for stray cats ?
A few of us in the neighborhood has discussed countermeasures.
...and implemented them. Years ago.
Would you care to discuss that ?
Were not interested.

I fully understand the necessity for E&E and you know, I have the 6 & 12 and much more. I would say your kit is pretty basic,but functional.
I understand the T&C well here and that thread your speaking of is borderline at best.
I'm enjoying that thread,I don't care to participate, and I'm LMAO.

reply to post by DaddyBare


LMAO...Thank you... I greatly enjoyed you post.
I think we all need to start starring and flagging more.
I wonder were Semper is ?

Utopian Penguinince,

When did this thread become about my motives? And who are you to become accusational without having a clue about what I do and what my motives are. How dare you. What I do, I do to help animals and people.

And yes I was looking for a cat. I volunteer for the local cat rescue society because I am an expert tracker and I have the equipment to help find these cats before the weather gos to minus 35 degrees Celsius. Have you ever seen what happens to a cat when they can't find shelter in those temperatures? They hunker down. They're body warmth melts the ice below them until it can't anymore and then the ice freezes them to the ground. They loose their ears first and then they loos their feet.

Meet Angel, Utopian Penguinince. She is missing one whole ear, part of another and most of her front feet:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3fd32137d335.jpg[/atsimg]

So you just keep on assuming there Utopian Penguin.

Originally posted by The Utopian Penguin
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

LMAO...Thank you... I greatly enjoyed you post.
I think we all need to start starring and flagging more.
I wonder were Semper is ?

Semper is right in the middle of the one place you never wanted to be...
Fi is the place with all the soft women and hard liquor... you cant get there from Semper....

the simple truth is any time I found myself in one of "THOSE" stations I never had what I needed I just made do with what I had the best prep is common sense and sticking close to those who really do know the way to Fi...

[edit on 6-10-2009 by DaddyBare]

reply to post by dainoyfb


First of all ...I'm not accusing you of anything.I asked you a question.
Second of all ..nice cat

Is that the cat's eye color ?
Did you Photoshop it ?

Third of all. Here s my eye. Yes there is more than one.
Similar color right ? There is two of them of course and I didn't photoshop it.
I have 20/10 vision,do you need glasses ?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a2b1e5a6d751.jpg[/atsimg]

Fourth of all ....I like UFO's and Technology.
I have a lot of experience with Technology.

Fifth of all ....your spelling my name wrong. dia noYfb

Now in closing...I don't care to discuss the "other" thread. We are in this thread. You think it's your turn in here which is fine.

You also assumed that the gear was specifically for survival situations or criminal activity however you failed to realize that some of us have jobs which place us in situations that make such equipment useful on a regular basis. In fact none of the equipment I mentioned in that thread ever ends up in my BOB (though I find it so useful that it would likely get tossed in a pocket on the way out the door). If it did however I would gladly pit my thermal imager against the shampoo, spatula, comb/brush, salt and pepper shaker you listed as essential emergency equipment along with what I am guessing is dozens of pounds of other stuff. What the heck, here's your entire list

Sounded like a challenge to me.
You then posted the entire BOB again.
You realize some were talking about how to stop the owners from catching them in their homes and fake ID's and stuff.

Now .... Another statement in "here" not there.

I highlighted A statement for you....

I camp quite a bit too and by that I mean besides a hammock, bedroll, tarp, Knife, hatchet pot and fire starter I'm living off of what I find around me. But I cant ever recall being in a situation where I thought "gee, I sure don't know what I'm going to do now that I left my bottle of shampoo at home. How am I going to get through this? If I had a spatula maybe I could compensate, dang

Now the questions I have for you are....
Are you starting fires on someones property and have permission ?
But have you ever though "gee am I pissing someone off by being on their property?. What am going to do when four dogs show up to pin me down so the owner can ask me why I'm here setting off perimeter alarms and making a mess ? Should I hurt their dogs when they show up while I'm sleeping because he knows I'm here and has better detection then I do ?

Now if were engaged in Permaculture,Agriculture,Aquaculture,free ranging fowl and stuff,do we want you messing up my flora and fawna,and wondering around on our property with lock picking kit.
Those Grouse are there for A reason.The blueberries are being fostered.

Now as far as looking for cats in the middle of the night,are you a licensed locksmith ?

Now should we continue ?

[edit on 6-10-2009 by The Utopian Penguin]

Originally posted by ROBL240
The guy on the boat made me chuckle, I can actually imagine someone doing that at sea and thinking "at least I got plenty of drinking water."

LOL that's nothing,he posted three threads in succession with the word raft in it trying to make A thread. The other two got deleted. I wonder if he's going to take that many efforts with his raft. oops I needed Oars both of them, in the water don't you know.

reply to post by The Utopian Penguin


Is this what this conversation has come to? You're asking me a bunch of questions not even related to the thread to what, try and make me look bad?
Fine.

Yes I am licensed. Do you think I would post for all to see if I was doing something illegal? And by the way when did I ever say that I take picks into the bush with me. Once again the thread was about E&E, not survival, not BOBs, not bush craft.

Speaking about bush craft, As I have stated in other threads (as you are so fond of mentioning) I am very much into zero impact camping.
And yes, I have plenty of friends that allow me to camp on their property. There is also plenty of crown land that is legal to camp on here. And then there is the property that I own which I give myself permission to camp on.

I have no idea what the dogs thing is about so I won't even comment about that.

Sorry about the name. I copied and pasted incorrectly there.

Next, about your first quote of mine. My original post here was not directed at you but at the OP.

My quoting the OPs BOB list was to show that he doesn't know everything either which is in fact the topic of this thread.

Originally posted by The Utopian Penguin
Now as far as looking for cats in the middle of the night,are you a licensed locksmith ?
[edit on 6-10-2009 by The Utopian Penguin]

What are these two topics doing in the same sentence? I'm sorry I don't know how to respond to that.

You have 20/10 vision and "do i need glasses"??? You are babbling. Are you mentally fit?

Also if you don't care to discuss the other threads then why are you bringing up mine?

And finally my favorite item:
Cats are nocturnal predators and so have a reflective membrane in their eyes which sometimes produces that effect. Here is another example unrelated to me.

Why on earth are you bringing up whether or not the cats eyes are Photoshopped when it has nothing to do with the feet and ears which is why the picture was posted? If this is the type of content and tactics expected in this thread then that is very sad.

reply to post by dainoyfb

This is the question I asked.
It's was NOT accusatory!
None of them are.
These are valid questions.
Your response is to start messing up my name and become defensive.
Sorry you can't copy and paste effectively.
But you realize YOU don't have to talk specifically about real life.
I would prefer you don't.

I'm glad your into zero impact. WE both have a lot in common and that extends beyond survival.I already read that post. Nice set up

I'm kind of curious as to why "YOU" think it's necessary for "anyone" to roam around in middle of the night in the city with your equipment in tow at this point and time?
I want your opinion.

Now your insulting me and being rude about it
I'm NOT in THAT Thread. I READ that thread.

Now the new question.
Do you feel that you have sufficiently answered that question?

[edit on 6-10-2009 by The Utopian Penguin]

reply to post by jibeho


Jibeho, I believe that many peoples' best strategy would be to bug IN, at least until things equalize a bit. Particularly city dwellers and urbanites.... do you want to be stuck in line on a freeway with thousands of others fleeing for parts unknown, or be in/on your own familiar turf, with your supplies, having only to secure a few entrances into your home?

For me, the bush is my back yard. I know it like nobody else, and there are caches there so well hidden that I need my notes to find them. I have rock holes that I've developed that both myself and m'Bride could hide/snipe in, if need be. Could we hold our home against an organized force? Nope. Could we avoid detection in the bush forever? Nope again, however once in the bush, various traps could easily be set, and we would not sell our lives cheaply.

We have talked this over with our neighbors and others in the area. We have a fairly secure Mutual Assistance Group, and it came together just as planned last November when we were hit by a Cat 4/5 hurricane. We're not bulletproof, but we're not an easy take either. I would guess that you've done much the same. A prepared group of people, particularly those with favorable skills, can hold an area against roving mobs, looters, opportunists -- nearly anyone except a precision strike force. I think you've thought about this a bit. Goodonya