Rape of a Man: The Myths and Ugly Truths of Male Rape

Male Rape will never get serious recognition.

I hate to say those words, but it is in the end, the way the prison system works, Fear of Rape makes men obey the law.

You eliminate Male on Male Rape, Take it seriously as a crime then there is little reason to fear prison and a host more crimes are committed in society.

This is compounded by a much lessened need for prison gangs which keeps apart the inmates.

Less face it

If in almost any prison, the inmates trusted each other you could never keep them in Jail. They would turn on and defeat the guards easily.

In short

Man on Man rape Crime taken seriously = End of prison and criminal justice system.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus

Man on Man rape Crime taken seriously = End of prison and criminal justice system.

So what about the men who are raped outside of the prison system? The innocent guys who get drunk and held down by 3 others at a party? Should we not offer them any support so that male rape can be used in prison as a control mechanism? That's a very strange line of thinking.

I cannot believe i just read someone who defends men being raped because it helps the prisons stay under control. If someone defended a rape on a woman there would be uproar, and rightlyfully so. Rape is rape regardless of which sex is the victim and we must treat those victims well.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Actually, a lot people are uncomfortable with condemning rapists. When I called Polanski a "rapist" on another forum because he was tried for rape and pled rather than be charged on 6 counts I was called (I love it!) "worse than a rapist" for judging him.

reply to post by silo13

According to the moderators- thankfully, they got back to me right away- there is an ongoing debate as to where this thread that you've so bravely started "fits". I'm sure they've told you already that the old Social Issues forum was removed; to me, the solution is simple: put it back! Such issues haven't ended with the removal of such a forum; life still goes on.

My friends & I thank you for your post. I assure you that they got all the help they needed. I only wish that everyone did.

reply to post by mopusvindictus

MopusVindictus, you have a fine rep here at ATS, but I don't think you mean to sound like an apologist for a rankly decaying system- at least, I hope not, anyway.

In part, you are correct about the prison system, but the system is not working. The US has over 2 million people incarcerated as well as a barbaric feature in most states called the death penalty. Rape is obviously not a scary enough deterrent! As if it should be. It should not. Even death is not enough.

Do you really hear yourself? What kind of nation oppresses its people psycho-sexually? Hitler extolled the so-called virtues of "spiritual terror" in his memoir "Mein Kampf". People are no where near as religious as they once were today. Is "sexual terror" now the weapon that the Powers That Be use to control the masses (or, the "Great Unwashed", as they'd prefer to call us)? That should not be.

I don't know if you're a man or a woman, so please don't take me wrong- if you're a man, how do you feel about being treated like that by such an infernal system? It's not enough to just say "that's how it is, so male rape will never get taken seriously".

Sexual oppression is one of the worst forms of tyranny. Basically, you are saying that that is just the way it is in the US. How I wish it weren't so. This nation prides itself upon leading the world in freedom, democracy & much else. I'm afraid that some parts of the world have begun leaving the US behind in some respects- especially human rights- for years. Human rights in Canada & most of Europe are light-years ahead of the US. Things aren't perfect- but their way of running things is a vast improvement. For one thing, health care is a human right; their national health care systems take care of their people & cost far less than the American way of doing things, which leaves countless people to die for the lack of care. There is no death penalty; they realize that it is not a deterrent- after all, if people feel that they have nothing more to lose, what incentive do they have to live within the law?

Canada & Europe also believe that sexuality is a human right. Once again, things aren't perfect- but people have a right to have the orientation that they were born with, & in Canada, as well as many countries in Europe, gay & lesbian people have the right to get married. As a result of these things- health care, no death penalty, & sexual rights- these countries are far less violent & more civilized & orderly than in the US. They also have more freedom & are far more democratic, because their people have what they need. Please start asking yourself: what in the world is wrong with this country?!


[edit on 5-10-2009 by Deianera]

reply to post by A Fortiori

A Fortiori, I admire the way that you've held your own on the "Whoopi says it's not rape-rape" thread against all comers. I complained to the moderators about the troll behavior & there hasn't been as much improvement as many of us would like. The unmitigated gall of the poster you mentioned to attack you as he did & the long-time tolerance of his behavior by ATS astonishes me, to say the very least.

After my "psych" observation, as it were, of "CD", I noticed that he started toning things down a bit. After all, he had no choice. When an inflamed neurotic such as he goes on the attack as he did, try to notice how a person such as he behaves as he does- because the post of a survivor seems to be, to him, a great big mirror. He is projecting his worst feelings and deeds upon that person, & in an infantile manner is trying to draw attention away from himself by attempting to get everyone else to believe that anyone but him is to blame. It broadcasts that he has an extremely guilty conscience about something; & he knows that someone like me knows that. He feels exposed & knows that he has to back off.

It's too easy for someone to behave that way on the internet, hiding as they do behind a computer in complete anonymity. Remember how he went completely ballistic right after you, Blanca Rose & I began supporting each other? It was jealous rage- few posters in that thread supported his views & he has almost no stars on any of his posts (small wonder). Last but not least, the half-truths & outright lies he spewed ad nauseum tripped him up more than anything else. How pathetic can someone get?

Keep slaying those "dragons", girl! You should be proud of yourself. In the meantime, I hope that this thread gets put back on ATS & gets the recognition that it deserves. There are a lot of men who need help & will begin to reach out, out there, & I hardly think it's fair that trolls should get all of that space & attention while this thread languishes in obscurity on, judging by the choice of emoticons available for posts, what seems to be the "kiddie" end of the site.



[edit on 5-10-2009 by Deianera]

reply to post by silo13

Which only makes me wonder even more why this thread was moved, and, why the star and flag has been disabled.
Do I care about stars and flags? No.
Do I care that this thread is being buried? Yes.
IMO is it appalling this thread is being squished? You bet.

The sad fact of the matter is that the subject of male rape is TABOO. It shouldn't be but as you see: Thread moved=no flags or stars=unwanted subject by mod's and admin=TABOO

Ignorance abounds and will continue with any subject found not to be inline with "proper" thinking and what "proper" subject matter is, thus it shall and will be buried. AAAAHHHH the more things change the more they remain the same!
:shk:

Great post silo13 and it is a fact that it happens around the world yet little to nothing is said. The male is expected to suck it up and not report it because by doing so he is not being a man and taking it like a man. That amount of pressure on the male can lead him to suicide when he is in desperate need of help.

It is not easy for us to talk about things that disturb us the most or that have traumatized us. There are some things we just wont talk about.

It also doesn't help when there are those that wish to push it under the carpet and hope that it somehow goes away, it wont. Either way, great post silo13, keep up the good work!

reply to post by Deianera

No, no one has *gotten back to me*.
I do see the Flag option has been reinstated here, but, not the stars.
Again, I wonder why.

As for where this thread might *go* - IMO the opening line gives it a place in the shoe line in the conspiracy threads, but in this case my opinion does not count, lol.

Anyway, I found some other information that is applicable to the thread.

Hope for Healing Foundation

It’s just flooded with great information and I hope those who need to take advantage of the link.

peace

This is utterly digusting behavior by ATS mods, no doubt i'll be warned over that statement, at least i expect to be as it seems they're getting rather aggressive.

Lets consider something here. A thread was started by silo about female rape and how to prevent it/fight back. This thread has at this time received 90 flags and 54 stars. That's really great it is nice to see peopel taking it seriously and offering quality debatee and helpful, supportive advice.

Silo then staarted this thread about male rape. It was moved, flagging disabled, starring disabled and seen as being grossly inappropriate. This to me says a great deal about our society being unwilling to discuss male rape and seeing it as something that should be kept hidden. Just as wife beating, child abuse and mental illness used to be swept under the rug and kept quiet.

ATS mods should be ashamed. You have all been utterly hypocritical allowing the discussion of female rape and not male rape. Whilst this is a private forum and therefore up to the owners to decide what can or cannot be discussed they should at least be consistant.

reply to post by Deianera


Thank you, boy was he mad at me, huh! I almost want to make it my tagline, but I don't think it would come out as nifty in Latin.

As for male rape...have you read: Against Our Will? Or even have you studied the Roman (not Greek) attitude about male on male sex?

There seems to be this prevailing attitude that if you are "the top" and if you are able to overpower another man you are an alpha male, not "gay", and worthy of respect. You can see this in prisons, as one poster pointed out, and you see this in ancient codes of the Republic.

When they said of Caesar "He is every woman's man and every man's woman" it was a huge slap to him, the implication that he was a "bottom". It was known he had slept with more than a few Senator's wives so in retaliation he was labeled a "bottom", taking on the connotations of "female".

In a weird way male on male rape (as rape is not sexual and about sexual desire, but about violence and power) is the ultimate in misogyny. It is the making of a man into a woman, or so it is in the perpetrator's mind. If you read the names that the individual who was rape is referred to it is "feminine" in the prison system. It is about the stripping of a man, and the reduction of his masculinity.

This is why when people declare this "gay" I tell them to pump the brakes. They do not associate reception with femininity or womanliness. This is not "gay" behavior, this is violent and aggressive behavior.

reply to post by A Fortiori

Hi, A Fortiori- Thank Gods you know the things you do & thanks so much for telling us all! Just so that you know, this morning "CD" was banned from the site.

I'm not all that knowledgeable about Roman history (not yet, anyway), but I learned a bit from a great book by Louis Crompton called "Homosexuality & Civilization". I've had GLBTQ friends since I was 16- I grew up in San Francisco, a far better place than some to come out to your near & dear. In this book I wanted to learn WHY homophobia is such a prevalent, pain-in-the-butt, vicious, ignorant disease upon society, seeing as the ancient world had no such problem. In Greece, being gay was OK (to oversimplify things to fit in a nutshell); according to this book in ancient Rome men having sex with men was just as you have said, but men having sex willingly with men was considered acceptable only if a male Roman citizen had sex with a male slave. Of course, plenty went on in spite of it- people are people.

And, to keep things on topic (I've had my posts removed from this site at least twice) I learned from this book & lots of others that there isn't really anything gay about male on male rape (as silo13 has already wisely pointed out) or about men or women raping children- the vast majority of perpetrators are straight. Statistics vary, so Google them up, everybody- we can all make up our own minds.

It's very important to keep this thread going. Rapists are very dangerous, out-of-control, mentally ill people- no matter who they rape. Getting the word out & exposing their modus operandi as well as the rapists themselves whenever possible is something that all of us can do to help set things right. Silence is deadly.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Excuse me? Why don't you calm the hell down and not accuse me of defending anything?

I told you how it is... I didn't defend it

What part of "I hate to say those words" did you miss? Or are you just so busy being Emo you can't read?

Do I run the god damned prison system? Do i defend it?

Don't pull a Spartan and push the messenger down a hole for saying WHY they will never go after Male Rape...

reply to post by Deianera


Thank You...

I think the prison system is moronic a failure and useless for 90% of criminal offenses, costly, disgusting offers no rehabilitation and is basically a Death sentence in a day and age of computer records there is NO second chance.

Add to that allowing Rape and in fact encouragement within the system as a method of control is sick

Let's look at stockades from back in the day.

stockade image

What do we suppose this device was intended to allow when you were put out for nights in a row in the dark surrounded by a village of sexually repressed men?

I'm just straight out with it

RAPE has been the FEAR focus behind all prisons for all of time.

"how do I feel about living in a society that uses....."

I think people are sick vengeful apes lol and we almost all in the end know this is how it is and we tip toe around and laugh and choose not to think of it, I have NEVER seen a Movie where a man goes to Jail and this isn't implied...

10 year olds know you get anal raped if you misbehave... so why should I tip toe around the subject...

You want it to end? here's the reason it exists...

and sorry for being all belligerent above, and Thank You for knowing rationally obviously I do NOT support this system...

But people in here rag all day on "the sheeple" and how we are all "slaves"

So what's the method? In the end... "Male Rape" do as your told or you will be RAPED

This is no secret... it's the root of social control, your traumatized with it from the day you can comprehend it... Not just here, every nation on Earth...

Do I like it no...

I'm just not afraid to call it out.

This is the HOW they control EVERYTHING no different than an Alpha Dog in a pack, stay in line or get bent over...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I'm not emo i just took your post to be defending the system, if you didn't mean it that way then fine but reading it again it still seems that way. Just saying "i hate to say this" doesn't automatically mean you disagree with a position, it can eaasily sound like a justification. No tone of voice on the internet sometimes can cause problems.

You say you didn't mean it that way so fine, but instead of telling me to calm down why don't you do the same.

So the system needs changing, simply saying "it wont' change" is hardly productive and history kind of shows that kind of thinking gets proven wrong pretty often. No doubt it'll take a long time but hopefully it'll happen. Although i'm not ignorant enough to imagine it can be stopped completely.

reply to post by A Fortiori

Or even have you studied the Roman (not Greek) attitude about male on male sex?

That was something I was going to bring up.
The right and practice of warriors raping those who fought against them and lost.
The complete *unmanning* of their fallen foes.
The socially accepted practice of *using* males for political reasons, etc.

But, truly, I’m just not willing to give any more to this thread.

Why?

To have it completely disappear?

Thanks for responding, Ill go back to reading your full thread now.

peace

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


And I agree it is hard to tell tone in a thread so my apologies for nasty sort of response...

It's just I really hate the system we use, so it just took me a back.

I Believe, it can be stopped btw, obviously none of us like living under such a system.

reply to post by mopusvindictus

Hi, mopusvindictus, thanks so much for your great reply- we're now all much more aware of what you meant & I have some info to back it up that no doubt you're already aware of but others here may not be.

There are 2 awful incidents in the recent news that I'm about to relate: the behavior of some Blackwater guards in Afghanistan, & the awful deeds of certain US Armed Forces personnel at Abu Ghraib in Iraq. Complete with photos. Here's how to find them:

Rapes at Abu Ghraib: PrisonPlanet.com, May 28th 2009 article by Paul Joseph Watson

Photos of same: www.telegraph.co.uk/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html

Blackwater guards: New York Times online, Sept.11th 2009, Company Kept Kabul Security Contract Despite Record

More of same: UK Telegraph online, Sept. 3rd 2009, US Guards hosted naked parties at Afghan Embassy, photos included (13 of them)

These articles & photos show why I couldn't agree with you more & that what you've related goes on to this day in many places. In the case of Abu Ghraib, women & young men are being raped by US Armed forces personnel; in Afghanistan, former US Armed forces personnel now working as Blackwater guards are engaging in a drunken initiation of new recruits. Pay especial attention to how men interviewed for the article complain of how that's what it takes to keep the job. There's nothing gay about this, folks- these are the actions of sexual deviants. In both cases, these actions are just like the behavior of the Nazi SS initiation rituals & abusive treatment of prisoners.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever to the US Armed forces- I'm hoping, like many others, that the cancer in their midst gets cleaned out. Blackwater should have all of its contracts rescinded.

Note also that info such as this is hard to find, & that sources in Europe are usually far more forthcoming about such subject matter. The US mainstream media "cleans out" this stuff as if Americans had no right to know.

Thanks again for your reply & thanks, everyone for listening.

reply to post by silo13

Oh, silo, say it isn't so! I do understand how you feel. This will always be your thread, the flags are yours- shall I help keep it alive as long as possible 'til you're feeling better? U2Ume if you'd like....

reply to post by silo13


The information contained in this OP is as good as anything that might be presented in a psychology class at a University, and would immediately receive the grade of A.

I sometimes work with this population of men in a MH clinic, and I can tell you firsthand, this is reliable and genuine information.

Males generally DO freeze during the assault, just as women do, and become immobalized by this during the assault. How many times have I testified about this in a court room on behalf of my client? The defense attorney will inevitably point out that the person didn't fight, so they must have consented. How completely ignorant. Victims experience huge amounts of guilt for this freezing, and have to eventually accept it was due to a state of shock. Hard as that is for them to believe.

The other information was dead-on also, and I felt myself wanting to take notes, and I did jot down a few.

As with women, the aftermath of male sexual assault is symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress, which can often take years to work through. The depression, panic attacks, nightmares, flashbacks, insomnia, self-isolating and self-medicating, angry outbursts, irritability, all the symptoms can be present.

My "light bulb" moment here, was that women are prepared for this at an early age. Our mothers, grandmothers, aunts, mothers of our girlfriends are always drumming into us "be careful" "park under a street light" "don't stray away from the group", on and on. And guys don't get that. It's never mentioned. They get "don't talk to strangers" as a young boy, and that's about it.

This is not to say that when women get raped they are so prepared they don't freeze. They surely do. We know it's out there looming, but we never really expect it to happen to us. (Who would want to hurt us?)

I've had this thread on my suscribers list for a while, knowing I wanted to get back to it, and now I am delighted I did.

Thank you so much OP for the time, effort and thought you put into to this.
It is truely excellent work.

UpFront Disclosure: This thread made my pathos for more than one reason and nearly all of them were valid logos! There was the occasional followed by some ! I am a male and I AM/WAS [your pick] a male gang rape "victim" [oh how I loathe that word as it makes me want to scream and but I gotta call a spade a spade and so 100% transparency is vital and I provide it regardless of how much it galls my ego/pride/machismo!]

Explanation: silo13 S&F! and

:shk: at whoever is responsible for this being pulled from the ATS side of the website. I'll just :bnghd: instead of them as I don't want to get , although there is a PLETHORA of BTS emoticons that I feel that would be TOTALLY appropriate to use!

Now on topic.....I am going to have to clarify some points OK!

RE: "Studies on perpetrators of male-on-male rape found that they tended to identify as heterosexual, were 26 years old on average, and were all involved in consensual sexual relationships with others at the time."

AND....

RE: "It is important to know, however, that most men who rape other men identify as heterosexual and are involved in consensual sexual relationships with women at the time they rape.

It is not a need for sex with other men that drives them to rape. For them, rape is an act of violence and control, not of sexual gratification."

AND....

"However, at an appropriate time, inform him that most men who rape men self-identify as heterosexual and rape to control, humiliate, and degrade their victims, not for sexual pleasure."

NOPE! And here is why!.....

Basically its BOTH rape [power trip] and a case of situational homosexuality both of which are BOTH deeply couched in PHYSICAL SEXUAL GRATIFICATION i.e. orgasm for either the perpetrator and/or the victim regardles of either's SEXUAL DESIRES or orientations! The orgasm is a display of domination and so is forcing someone to unwillingly orgasm!

And with regards to prisons and male rape and the above; here is evidence from Correctional Officers Perceptions on Homosexuality, Rape and Prostitution in Male Prisons. [PDF at justdetention.org] as follows....

"The concept of sexual deprivation became a key factor in resolving this apparent paradox. Most authors noted that inmates basically had two options in prison,celibacy or situational homosexuality".

AND...

"The earliest discussions of male rape in prison are found in the correctional literature dealing with homosexuality. These works (Buffum, 1972; Clemmer, 1958; Fishman, 1951; Kirkham, 1971; Sagarin, 1976; Sykes,1958) focus on creating topologies of homosexuals. Most of this body of research, like other research on sexuality during this era, employed an essentialist theoretical approach. According to this perspective, sexual orientation is a static and permanent characteristic, and people can be categorized into two dichotomous groups—heterosexual or homosexual (see Eigenberg, 1992). This approach does not accommodate bisexuality, nor does it recognize the possibility of a changing sexual orientation. As a result, most of the early literature on prison sexuality concentrated on discriminating between “true” and “situational” homosexuals"..... Situational or not they are still HOMOSEXUAL!!!

And to prove my point....

A situational HETEROSEXUAL man rapes a true HETEROSEXUAL man (definately an ACT of situational HOMOSEXUALITY and fornication but not nessissarily from motive driven by a desire of lifelong HOMOSEXUALITY on the part of the rapist or victim) and claims he is NOT a HOMOSEXUAL but that his victim is a HOMOSEXUAL and that the ACT overall was Overtly HETEROSEXUAL in nature...

Then this...

A situational LAW ABIDING man SEXUALLY ASSAULTS a true LAW ABIDING man (definately an ACT of situational CRIMINALITY and CRIME but not nessissarily from motive driven by a desire of lifelong enjoyment of CRIMINAL ACTS on the part of the rapist or victim) and claims he is NOT a CRIMINAL but that his victim is a CRIMINAL and that the ACT overall was Overtly LEGAL in nature...



The OP's evidence source didn't seem to see that the situational homosexual rapists are trying to pull the wool over their and our eyes (the OP's evidence source was obviously fleeced) and I find it disgusting as it demeans the victims even more and lessens us all especially when people go ahead and endorse their(the rapists) FUBAR rational. :shk: EPIC FAIL!

Personal Disclosure: I certainly don't care whether its situational or not or whether anybody enjoys themselves or not or whether they consider themselves homosexual or not but let us call a spade a spade and male rapists as situational homosexuals OK!

Edited to add a word for greater clarity.

[edit on 24-10-2009 by OmegaLogos]