Refridgeration when SHTF

reply to post by midnightbrigade


Really what it boils down to is you will most likely need to use A solar/wind system. One of the most important aspects will be "R" value.

You can get vacuum panels for your custom built refrigerator/freezer but, there expensive.
The good freezers(store bought) have an R value of about 7.

Heres one of the best sources for materials for refrigeration.
A material with an R value of 50 per inch thickness ! Thats astounding really
It's A little pricey but well worth it.
Glacial Bay

For portable and AC/DC solutions,you can check out Engels
Engels

Solar icemaker ?

You could get creative
An exercise bike that chills beers makes exercise more appealing

Various Alternative Energy resources you may need.
What a great resource for ATS survival ?

[edit on 1-10-2009 by The Utopian Penguin]

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
For those who have a well, or a well house, that will help keep things cool. My mother told me how her parents and grandparents kept things cool. Milk was kept in the the well.

Recall, too, that you can change the way you access food to deal with the issue of spoilage. If you have neighbours around, you can organise a beef or pork ring...a co-operative that makes sure when you slaughter livestock, it all gets used in a short period of time.

Look to the old ways...eating ain't new, and ptomaine has never been parlour entertainment. Well...not up here, anyway.

Penguin...GREAT INFORMATION! Thank you for all the links. I'll read through them all tonight when I get some free time. Star for you!

Johnny...You are absolutely correct. If you are in a community, live like a community. Thats something you dont see much of anymore. Good idea man!

If you had a stream and a long length of hose pipe (garden hose would be ideal) you could submerge it completely in a coil in the water - bleeb out all the air (you may have to get one end and suck a bit!) and then run that end down hill you will of set up a cyphen system.

Now you can just leave it there once that's set up - dig a hole in the ground a bit bigger and deeper so that the coil will fit nicely in - make sure the up stream and the down stream ends of the pipe stay fixed in place (it is vital of course that the up stream one stays under the water!!! - if you get too much air in that end the cyphen is ruined!!).

Fish your coil of hose out of the water - place it in your pit and voila! A fridge - the water will keep it at the constant temperature of the river as the river water will always flow through the pipe - once set up it will in theory run indefinitely so long as the chphen system is not compromised!!

Now I know your thinking you could just use the river! - well the advantages are things like you can maybe position this so it's hidden, a bit more secure, bit more perminant, the food should not actually come into contact with the water... You could line the hole somehow for hygene AND ITS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOUR GRUB TO FLOAT AWAY


edit: actually I seem to remember someone one one of those science challenge shows for school kids was actually able to get heat from a cold river ... He made him self a hut away in the woods somewhere and invented things for it - but he used a variation of my hose pipe fridge above, but the majority of the pipe was left in the river and he had a small part of it running through his hut - and his hut always stayed a little warmer than his mates with no heating - he said he was getting a slight amount of heat energy somehow, not sure I understand that one

[edit on 1/10/2009 by Now_Then]

reply to post by Now_Then


Hmmm... if had A stream

I would incorporate micro hydro to help charge the battery system.
Using Solar,Wind and Hydro the system would be Awesome.
In conjunction with the High "R" valued insulation I mentioned.
I've seen good results with A Peltier and Styrofoam.

How to Make and Use The BYU Solar Cooker/Cooler

solarcooking.org...

... the cooking vessel now becomes a small refrigerator. We routinely achieve cooling of about 20º F (10º C) below ambient air temperature using this remarkably simple scheme.

Here's another one: fourmileisland.com...

Awesome information guys! And I agree, if I had a stream (which I'm looking for on the land i buy) I would definitly use a micro hydro engine. You get so much power out of those that you could run normal appliances as long as the current was swift enough.

Of course I wouldn't. EnergyStar appliances are so much easier to supply power for and with a good hybrid power system, you would be set!

Hey MB, do you mind if I put a link to this thread in my preserving foods thread? For those wanting more information on the subject, it'll save them time trying to use the search function.

If not, that's cool too.

The concept of the stirling engine has always fascinated me. What an ingenious concept, I don't understand why it's not used more today!

en.wikipedia.org...

It's super efficient, and one of the few mechanical machines in existence that can produce output in several ways. It works off of a temperature delta between the hot and cold sides. The larger the temperature difference between the two sides, the faster it runs. Either heat the "hot" end, or cool the "cold" end, either one will make it work!

Even cooler is that if you power the engine mechanically, such as cranking it by hand or using an electric motor, the reverse occurs. The "hot" side gets hot and the "cold" side gets cold. The faster you turn it the greater the temperature difference is.

There's several videos on YouTube explaining how to build your own stirling engine, and with some creativity and machining skills they could be expanded to something larger you could use for refrigeration or even generating electricity. I can't remember the name of it, but there's a book out there somewhere about a guy who built a large stirling generator to provide electricity to his entire home, it produced about 5hp and he powered it by burning his trash!

Coleman even made a stirling-powered cooler a few years back. Used only 25 watts and could not only refrigerate but actually make ice! They stopped making them awhile ago but you can still find them used here and there, just search Google for "coleman stirling." I wanted one SOOO bad when they came out but the price was just too high.

Peltier coolers like in the video in a previous post are neat, but very inefficient in terms of input versus BTU's of cooling output. They have some great uses but are very power-hungry.

Of course WW, do what you do! I'm always about crossing threads and letting people see multiple sides of the dice.

Mortimer452 You explained it far better than I could. You seem to have an awesome understanding of the technology. Thanks for the link and info!

I read a book when I was a kid about a homeless family that set up a makeshift home next to a stream. They kept their milk cold by placing it in under the shade below some rocks in the stream and anchoring it down. Summer, Winter, Fall or Spring this method kept their milk cold. This has always stuck in my head and I am not sure if it is plausable but I guess if I were homeless I would give it a try.

reply to post by midnightbrigade


Why thank you sir. I'm off to toot your horn now.

Oh wait. That didn't sound right.

Melissa101, its absolutely possible! In fact, many northern tribes of Indians (feather, not dot) used to wrap their meat in bladders or stomachs and drop them in to cold ponds and streams to keep them "refrigerated". Didn't work so well in the south because we get too warm here. Although even in the 100 degree heat of summer, you drop a warm six pack into a lake and about an hour later, its nice and cool to fish with

WW, we discussed this and decided it was in our both best interests NOT to take our relationship to that level. I'll thank you to remember that.


BTW, please, no one get uppity with me about using the term Indians. I AM Indian. Not Native American. None of our tribes were native here. We ALL walked here out of Asia and Africa. I mean you wouldn't call Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin Mooninite Americans just cause they were the first to get there would you?

Maybe I've been around too long but I remember my folks having a 'Silent Knight' fridge which was powered by a small kerosene burner - no electricity required at all.

Some interesting info on kerosene appliances here

I've also been in pubs in the outback that used the 'Coolgardie Safe' method for cooling the beer which consists of nothing more than a wet hessian bag

reply to post by Pilgrum


Yes, I've about those fridges! I don't know how they work, so maybe someone could clue me in, but I also know you can use propane too.

I have a camper that has a fridge that you can switch from electricity to propane and it works well (as long as I have propane)

Originally posted by Pilgrum
Maybe I've been around too long but I remember my folks having a 'Silent Knight' fridge which was powered by a small kerosene burner - no electricity required at all.

Some interesting info on kerosene appliances here

I've also been in pubs in the outback that used the 'Coolgardie Safe' method for cooling the beer which consists of nothing more than a wet hessian bag

Good call on the Kerosene fridge!

Those propane-powered refrigerators used in campers & such are amazing. They basically work like a regular compressor-driven fridge, except take advantage of the low boiling point of ammonia to provide the vapor/condensation cycle. Really cool. You can run a small dormroom-sized fridge with the flame that comes out of your average cigarette lighter.

They pretty much last forever too. Absolutely no moving parts, as long as you have a heat source they work. A 20lb propane tank will run a smaller one for weeks.

reply to post by midnightbrigade


All you need to run these is virtually any source of heat so direct solar energy would also work if focussed on the refrigerant tank via a freznel lens or array of mirrors. These fridges use the absorption method which is really very efficient even compared to a modern fridge using an electric compressor. Most suitable refigerants appear to be ammonia or lithium bromide - both sound and are nasty stuff if it leaks out of the closed loop with inadequate ventilation.

There's a large cold storage facility near here which is using this method on a large scale with ammonia as the refrigerant.

Reminds me of the movie 'Mosquito Coast' with Harrison Ford and his invention of a freezer powered by fire 'ice from fire'

reply to post by Now_Then


Now this is something I could do. I can't afford to buy anything so this would work well for me.

The great thing about having so many suggestions is that we can take what ever would work for us as an individual.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


or a 12 volt fridge.

A 12 volt fridge would be ideal for any setup of living off the grid. Your own power supply would revolve around a set of deep cycle batteries. Just make sure you get one that is ultra efficient.

Also this heat engine could be used to heat/cool your home using only one setup. That would save a lot of wood or electricity use.