Was Hitler Right?

reply to post by Beausant91

i hope humanity can swerve to have the free spirits on top the men with the stomach to move humanity forward and we may lose freedom in the process but if it provided answers, to achieve the goal of all philosophers to achieve truth to find the answers and deliver them to the world, it is once again another utopia that we can dream of.

you see free spirits then - as tools?

or weapons?

please

no matter how you choose to word it - what you're talking about is not about freedom of thought - or the improvement of humanity

[edit on 9/22/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

maybe 'monsters' are wrong in what they do,
but maybe they didn't had another choice.

it's true that hunger (power,love,confirmation) grows by shortcomings you feel,
hitler was clearly driven out of control by his own pain or coldness or subjective care.

that's insanity. but on what levels did he do his best ?
what was his startingpoint, did his mind had space/capacity to get clear and oversee the wrongs ?
that would be the answer on the question how evil he was.

Ignorance allowed insanity to be and grow,
ingorance were many people, ingnorance are sometimes majorities of people.
that's the one of the lesson of the WOII.

Another lesson it gave without answering it fully,
when does insanity looses guilt. Did hitler had the space to be clear, and avoid ignorance in his own mind ?





[edit on 22-9-2009 by pasttheclouds]

As a farmer I not only say NO I say HE11 NO --- WHY?

Just look at the mess made of the breeding stock of animals.

Horses with wobbler disease traced to the stallion Impressive

There are two main health problems which afflict the Great Dane breed: hip dysplasia and bloat/torsion

It is interesting that this site landmark-st udy-finds-industrial-chicken-breeds-seriously-lack-genetic-diversity is no longer available. It is replaced by a much milder Article
And Plants
""South African farmers suffered millions of dollars in lost income when 82,000 hectares of genetically-manipulated corn (maize) failed to produce hardly any seeds.The plants look lush and healthy from the outside." digital journal or Warmwell (a great site)


In my area Nubian goats and Nubian crosses goats have a low immunity to internal parasites and often die, where as un-pedigreed Cashmere goats with a feral background thrive. I am crossing my herd with a nice healthy feral Cashmere and culled all my Nubian and Nubian crosses.

Genetic Diversity is the key to surivial and that is why Monsanto is down right EVIL. See what the Ag Cartel and the Central Bankers are doing to our food supply. They are setting the world up for mass Starvation by making it impossible to grow you own food due to government red tape and fines up to a million dollars/day for a paperwork screwup! History HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job

I think we need a little context here.

The concept being discussed is that of 'undue privilege'. The product desired by all human beings that seek more in life than they are due through individual or collective effort.

There are three things that share this as a prime pursuable target.
1) Religion
2) Capitalism
3) Fascism

I think it needs to be said that really, all three are in fact different faces of this term 'undue privilege'. Through religion, people seek to feel self-difference and the 'undue privileges' to propound that difference - to make it real and tangible. Capitalism is a mechanism with which to achieve this 'undue privilege' - how can a hedge fund manager that sits back and counts his money say that he has worked as hard as farmer who toils from sun-up til sun-down every day? He can't - but through the public acceptance or ignorance of 'undue privilege', it doesn't matter.

Then we get onto Fascism. What did the Nazi's do that earned them the right to gain privilege over others? Nothing. What did Hitler do to be allowed to publicly decry other cultures and races? Nothing. What did Nazi Germany do that made it acceptable for them to demand one of the most literal forms of 'undue privilege' - "LEBENSRAUM" - from the Czechs, or the Poles? Nothing.

People will always try and justify the actions they take, or the so called 'rewards' they receive for their activities. Wouldn't you? If you got something valuable that you didn't really deserve, but you value it anyway - wouldn't you want to keep hold of it? Especially if you had nothing before?

Religion, Capitalism, Fascism - all seek to compound our acceptance that 'survival of the fittest' - DARWINISM - is inherent in human nature, and available only to those who demand 'undue privilege' over others. Whilst this is true, it doesn't make it right. When will we as humans truly take hold of our evolutionary right to rise above the basic urge to hoard, to gain all aspects of wealth, to have power over others, to behave like 'animals' on the third rock from the sun?

Once we start thinking of ourselves as more than "just another animal", we'll do just fine.

The Para.

All I got from this was one loooong rant. What's he trying to say? Hitler was good?

maybe humans are not made to be good,
but to do their best.

what is insanity ? does it start after you get to the maximum capacity of what you are able to, and does insanity release you of guilt ?
And if you become insane, loose the capacity to avoid ignorance on the levels you are working on in your mind, will the rest allow your insanity to become reality ?

what is worse, insanity or ignorance ?

[edit on 22-9-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by Beausant91


Yes, human kind should make maximum use of the talented people to bring humanity forward. Sometimes it seems those guys end up researching horrible weapons instead of creating future solutions though, but I think its about to change somewhat. We just need to get rid of the current global regime and replace them with people who care for the planet and who take pleasure in creating things for others without craving money and power in return.

Basically, I want the planet to be run by the open source community. Reality would look really different if their ideals were applied to the planet.



[edit on 22-9-2009 by Copernicus]

Hitlers idea was "they don't look like us so let's kill them"

if you think that's right then you might be a little insane.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by Chovy]

Originally posted by dooper
The primary fallacy in Hitler's concept was in breeding.

Anyone who's been around animals knows that often, the more pure a strain, the more problems they have.

Since Jews were mentioned in this thread, and in light of your comment, I suppose it's not out of place to note the existence of many Centers for Jewish Genetic Deceases caused apparently by high rate of prevalence. Maybe Hitler was not alone in his fallacy.

Just follow the money, you'll see where he went wrong and why. He entered into and escalalted his war for the benefit of the weapons and industrial corporations. Including pharmaceuticals, information, etc... He was their patsy with a mission. Happens in Africa even now all the time. Happening in the US right now.

NO not so much on US soil but with the perpetual war on terror and the perpetual war against disease, where the gubment sanctions the use of human experimentation to further the profits of big pharma.

Next will be a eugenics war. Those that have superior ( natural or altered ) genes vs. the genetic scum that are polluting the world with their frailties and stupidity.

Unending war makes the economy run baby. Puts control of money in the hands of the governing.

We need this money ( resource ) or we all die horribly. Only we can save the people. Everyone must sacrifice.

Sound familiar????



PG

reply to post by dooper


Your right about that. Part of the reason the ruling elitist are so screwed up is the inbreeding factor. That's what the were trying to do breed for perfection. It didn't work

So hurray, for us Heinz 57 folk, we rule!



[edit on 22-9-2009 by useless eaters]

We will reach perfection as a race one day far in the future to try to accelerate the process would be a big mistake in my book. We are not mature enough as a species for that level of advancement. This world has a lot of growing up to do.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by VitalOverdose]

Hitler was very wrong. I do think he gets too much attention though, there were several dictators that were worse than him and many others who were almost as bad.

I actually don't think Hitler was an evil man to begin with. I've read Mein Kampf and it seems he actually had morals at first.

The Nazis DID possess some esoteric knowledge. They used it for a negative purpose, but I actually think they knew stuff about aliens, Atlantis etc and weren't just being delusional.

My theory is that the Aryan Atlanteans and the Semitic Atlanteans were at war from the fall of Atlantis clear up to the end of the 20th century, when they united to form the "New World Order". The Holocaust was an action against innocent civilian Jews by the Aryan elite, but the Zionist elite are just as evil as the Nazis.

reply to post by Beausant91


Playing God is monstrous and that was Hitler's game but not his alone.

In a Lewinite brainwashing group, a number of individuals from varying backgrounds and personalities, are manipulated by a "group leader" to form a "consensus" of opinion, achieving a new "group identity." The key to the process is the creation of a controlled environment, in which stress is introduced (sometimes called dissonance) to crack an individual's belief structure. Using the peer pressure of other group members, the individual is "cracked," and a new personality emerges with new values. The degrading experience causes the person to deny that any change has taken place. In that way, an individual is brainwashed without the victim knowing what has taken place. - Excerpted from Tavistock:
The Best Kept Secret in America by Dr. Byron T. Weeks, MD

Please consider this excerpt when reading this thread and the posts of agreement. You are being asked to contemplate eliminating segments of the world population in the name of progress. I contend that the loss of your/our humanity for the sake of progress is not progress. And you might say this is just a hypothetical on an internet forum. And I would then say that brainwashing has a friend in the internet. I surmise that at some point in time Hitler went from contemplating the monstrous to acting monstrous. Progressive brainwashing/education breeds hubris in abundance.

From the mid-1950s onward, NTL put the majority of the nation's corporate leaderships through such brainwashing programs, while running similar programs for the State Department, the Navy, the Department of Education, and other sections of the federal bureaucracy. There is no firm estimate of the number of Americans who have been put through this process in last 40 years at either NTL, or as it is now known the NTL Institute for Applied Behavioral Sciences, which is based in Rosslyn, Virginia, or its West Coast base of operations, the Western Training Laboratories in Group Development, or in various satellite institutions. The most reliable estimate is in the several millions. - Excerpted from Tavistock: The Best Kept Secret in America by Dr. Byron T. Weeks, MD

And so Dr. Weeks estimates several millions through various branches of federal bureaucracy back in July of 2001. If Weeks was correct, would those millions or their progeny have any interest in an internet forum the likes of ATS in the year 2009?

The entire article:

Tavistock: The Best Kept Secret in America

It's an interesting concept that Hitler was right to some perhaps but no he wasn't right, human kind needs to evolve much further before we can start to become our own gods and create super humans that are capable of space travel for example.

Each human being holds the potential power that no other holds, you cannot simply cull a whole section of the human race it's worse than genocide its reducing the gene pool of the race as a whole.

There are some people who believe that the Aryan race were the descendants of UFO's and thus somehow genetically superior, I'm not one of these but research the black sun for further info.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by freeradical]

But to be fair .. if you were going to try to take over the world by force it probably would be a good idea to try kill all the Jews.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by VitalOverdose]

Originally posted by VitalOverdose
But to be fair .. if you were going to try to take over the world by force it probably would be a good idea to try kill all the Jews.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by VitalOverdose]

Thats a bit of a loaded statement isn't it?

It's like religious identity bluring the lines of what it is to be human. Human kind has the potential to do great things and also bad things, what ever ideology its all wrapped up in is pure marketing. Learn to see through that and discover the potential in human kind my friend, you will will benefit from doing so.




[edit on 22-9-2009 by freeradical]

reply to post by freeradical


well you wouldnt have to kill them all .. just the crazy zionists and the money lenders but as you cant tell who does what they would all have to go
Its purely practical.. its not like they would give up without a fight.

Probably the British to.

reply to post by Beausant91


I didn't want to reply to this thread because well, it seemed to be a trolling thread but as so many replies are here already i may as well throw in my thoughts

You are talking of eugenics. This is not the same as evoltuion. Eugenics is the idea of manipulating natural selection to increase properties that human beings find valuable. So we value intelligence and fitness, good looks and good health. The problem with trying to breed this into humans is that we don't fully understand it yet.

Just take a look at dogs, the pedigree breeds. We bred them for all sorts of thigns but we ended up doing severe damage to many. Some breeds have breathing difficulties, others end up with arthritis very early and many more problems besides.

Trying to force evolution to do your bidding will never work and what is worse is that we may end up breeding out genes that are very important! Couples who are both smart don't necessarily have smart children, couples who are physically fit don't necessarily have fit children, and well, i think you get the point.

Hitler had it very wrong, his ideas were a horrid twisting of Darwins theory into something else, something dangerous and the Nazis' own experiments didn't work when they tried.

So no Hitler was not right.

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

If it's not much of a bother, would you extract any criticism pertaining to my posts specifically? The OP and I both discussed issues of moralistic relativism and the Übermensch, but we came to rather different conclusions. However, in order to address specific criticisms of the claims, I had to first explain (to the best of my ability) what the philosophy states and their implications as I saw it.

I did not intend for it to be a justification or endorsement of them.

One statement I'm fairly sure you were directing in response to me was the following:

I would also argue strongly that our morals are the cornerstone of any advancement in human development and are the primary indication that we have embraced a higher level of thought in the first place. Your idea that we remove our morals from the equation when answering the OP's question basically proves that you have answered your own question before even posing it, and the response you got was "No, Hitler was not right."

My quoted comment was directed to the OP, not you.

Originally posted by Beausant91
i'm asking the question that if we get rid of our herd mentality and our morals is giving the few "Supermen" the space to thrive such a bad thing getting humanity out of mediocraty so the species can evolve faster and with better results

I was stating that I believed the OP was wholeheartedly incorrect in even presuming that we could "evolve faster and with better results" in the absence of morals. Morality, while subjective, is still the ultimate foundation by which any evolutionary advancement we might make must be built upon. Otherwise, I would argue that any dissolution of morality constitutes a regression, or de-evolutionary regression... as it is our abillity to tell the difference between right and wrong, demonstrate empathy, and exhibit an understanding of cause and effect which ultimately separates us from young children and mental defectives. This is why we have set standards for culpabillity in issues of crimes. As Crakeur already stated, if you remove the morality from the issue you suddenly tread down a slippery slope of seeing the "genius" of Charles Manson. Remove a man's morality and you don't get "evolutionary advancement" you get a man who displays psychotic tendencies and uses that lack of morality to justify their misdeeds.