Brzezinski - US Must Shoot Down Israelis If They Attack Iran

He's very right, and I'm sure this is freaking a lot of people out. Israel is a wild card and will be the flashpoint of disaster for the world if a policy like this is not instated. It would be for any other country...why NOT Israel?

It's probably a cold day in hell...I agree with Brzezinsky...but hey, even mass murderers like him can speak truth once in a while. Or he just disagree with the Israeli strategy on how to kill the iranians.

Anyway. Yes, the US should stop any strike on Iran if they can. Use force if needed.

Why? Because there's 225.000 NATO troops in the area. If there's a strike, do you know what it will come to? Either a country being nuked (Iran), tens of thousands dead in Israel, possibly Lebanon, Syria and Gaza on full war with Israel. And you think Afghanistan is hard now? Just you do that and watch. Iraq would fall into chaos again.

It will result either a military draft in the US, because you ``don't leave Afghanistan because it's in chaos``...you CERTAINLY wouldn't leave the WHOLE FREAKING MIDDLE-EAST if it's in total chaos now would you? So you would have to put a minimum of 2X troops there, + replace those already there that have been doing more tours than they can bare.

So basically, if you are for a strike for Iran, you're for a draft in the US and trillions more to the militaro-industrial complex, and trillions of more debt and thousands of american lives lost and hundreds of thousands of civilians in the short/medium term.

That's what you want? If Israel wants to strike Iran, they can go at it...when the NATO troops will be gone. Not to mention the economic consequences of such a strike/counterstrike, potential use of nukes and biological/chemicals weapons.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by cloakndagger
That would make us hypocrites. We went into Iraq because of WMD's and the fear Saddam might use them.

Where have you been for the last six years? That was all LIES.

Doesn't Israel have those same fears with regard to Iran and nuclear weapons?

So far the evidence does not support Iran having any nuclear weapons, or any possibility of getting them for many years. Iran is pursuing a nuclear energy policy (foolishly, IMO) so it can continue to sell its oil. Preferably not by trading in useless dollars.

Recent events at the IAEA suggest that they've been nobbled. Previously ElBaradei successfully stood up to US pressure. Now the IAEA is looking at documents that are said to be forged and treating them seriously. It's not as if we havent' seen forged documents before, as other posters have already pointed out.

On a more general note... I used to look at news on this topic as part of a behind-the-scenes struggle between the neocons who want to press ahead with their makeover plans for the ME, and more sensible people in the military who recognise the limits of what can be done.

This statement by Brzezinski really does not fit into that at all. It does seem to be a coded message to the Israelis, and the reference to the USS Liberty is fascinating. I'd say that adds a rather aggressive edge to the message: a little reminder that the US has not forgotten the incident and is not above bringing it up in polite conversation.

I read somewhere that the information content of an item, be it news story, political speech, TV programme, whatever, is proportional to its unpredictability. Politicians' speeches, therefore, are usually information-free, because you can work out whatever anyone's going to say beforehand.

On that basis, the information content of this story is pretty high because I certainly wouldn't have foreseen Brzeszinski (I'm going to have to learn to spell that name soon) making comments like these.

This is just one of those surreal things said and done lately which leaves you scratching your head. It's right up there with obama swearing to protect Israel at any cost. Then seeking dialog with Iran. and getting chummy other Arab countries.

And what's with the removing of the missile shield from Poland and Czechoslovakia? Sure makes Russia happy. What did Russia promise or give up, to win that treat? Will Russia now stand down when Israel or the US invade Iran.

While our attention is being directed to what the right hand is doing, one has to wonder what the left has is doing?

This statement of Brzezinsky for the US to shoot down Israel’s planes tells me he is desperately seeking a war, and he doesn't really care who's blood is spilled as long as some is spilled. Blood is Blood, it all taste the same to him and his like minded criminals. The vampires are once again hungry and demand a blood sacrifice to sustain themselves.




[edit on 22-9-2009 by useless eaters]

I have an idea, let us police the world. Oh wait, we already do that. Let us decide what is best for sovereign nations. Oh wait, we already do that. Let us keep our FRACKING NOSES OUT OF IT. Oh wait, we cannot do that or we may look weak. WHERE DOES IT END? The NWO. Brought to you by GE, Haliburtan, etc etc etc. Why the frack do we not just protect ourselves? I know I am not a Fracking know it all, like the CFR, but common sense goes a long way.

Why practice interventionism?

Why start all of these wars and suffer for them?

Let the Middle East sort out it's problems, you have enough of your own to deal with at home.

Don't give the arms manufacturers + warmongers what they want.

Lead by example.

If Israel undertakes the poor decision to bomb Iran, the US would kick back and watch it happen. Of course. It is long decided that Israel is it's own boss, and has the right to act accordingly. We might try to "talk" them into some type negotiation, but that would be all.

..and as far as Brzezinsky, well, who listens to him? Certainly not the US.

Originally posted by Now_Then
I really can't see the US shooting down Israelis to defend Iran - I just can't see that happening

With Obama, I can. I have a feeling that if Israel attacked Iran without physical provocation, Obama would take a strong stand against their actions for the sake of diplomacy. That would probably go a long way with the people in power in Iran and the rest of the middle east, which is something the US could use.

Originally posted by rich23




This statement by Brzezinski really does not fit into that at all. It does seem to be a coded message to the Israelis, and the reference to the USS Liberty is fascinating. I'd say that adds a rather aggressive edge to the message: a little reminder that the US has not forgotten the incident and is not above bringing it up in polite conversation.

My thoughts exactly .

To reference the U.SS Liberty was very strange .

One does not make such a throw away statement . It was a calculated reference , very edgy indeed.

I still say Israel will attack Iran in the near future with America directly or indirectly helping.

Israel’s "mad dog" policy, The Zionist dream of a "Greater Israel", The influence of Jewish lobbying groups, Obama already has more Jews in his administration than Bush did. And let's not forget, the people of Israel voted in Benjamin Netanyahu and it never has been a secret to anyone, his view on a nuclear Iran. Also, there has been to many ultimatums given to Iran, to much saber rattling rattling, To not follow through after all the threats made by Israel will cause a loose of confidence among it's military and Israel will look like a paper tiger to the rest of the world. And Israel simply cannot afford to look like a paper Tiger. All this makes me think Israel will attack Iran with American help

If israel wants to attack iran they can. Yo think americans control the american military? Gimme a break. They get orders from the top. And those top people dont believe in america. They believe in a NWO

Originally posted by mkross1983

Originally posted by novacs4me
It would be wrong to assume that the Arab world has nothing to gain by the removal of the threat of a nuclear Iran. [

Iran DOES NOT have nuclear weapons.

DOES NOT.

YET.

Try to keep up.

Power plants do not equal nukes.

That is all.

[edit on 21-9-2009 by mkross1983]

Fixed.

"We are not exactly impotent little babies," Brzezinski said. "They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?.."

I was under the impression that the US no longer has military control of Iraqi airspace -- so is that incorrect? It seems to me that if Iraqi airspace is technically in the control of the Iraqis, then the whole perspective changes.

Even though the Israelis would not even need to fly over Iraq to attack Iran anyway, I'd be interested to have things clarified just in case the Israelis launched an attack and for some reason flew over Iraq. So, can someone give me a reference that shows the US still definitively controls Iraqi airspace?

I'm not being facetious, by the way. I really want to know. What is the true position? For if the airspace over Iraq is not technically under US control, I wonder why he said it was. A signal, maybe?

Besides Brzezinski's odd claim that the Israelis "have to" fly over Iraqi airspace (when he would certainly know that they don't), I also agree that his reference to USS Liberty is very disturbing. In spite of our varied opinions of this man's past actions or present worth, he is definitely no idiot, so he is saying something here far beyond mere surface meanings.

Edited for clarity. (I hope!)

[edit on 22/9/09 by JustMike]

Nuclear power plants plus french built concentrating centrifuges equal the ability to refine plutonium into weapons grade (97%pure).
And since Iran has not allowed any UN inspectors to check their reactors and installations,one must assume the worse.
It is not likely that Iran would use a nuclear device,but if they accidentally lost one??? Jee who would be the most likely recipient of such a device???
And do not forget Iran does have missiles capable of reaching Israel,Europe and all of the middle east.
So if Israel felt it was necessary to their survival,they will strike and not worry about world reaction.
If your crazy neighbor 2 miles away has a mortar that can hit you,and has nerve gas shells and does not like you,how long do you wait to remove the threat he is to you??

Originally posted by JustMike

"We are not exactly impotent little babies," Brzezinski said. "They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?.."

I was under the impression that the US no longer has military control of Iraqi airspace -- so is that incorrect? It seems to me that if Iraqi airspace is technically in the control of the Iraqis, then the whole perspective changes.


[edit on 22/9/09 by JustMike]

The U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA)
The U.S airforce patrols Iraqi airspace on behalf of the Iraqis. So if the Iraqis refused permission for the Israelis to use their airspace , it would be U.S forces who would be charged with seeing that an incursion was not permitted.

Alternative routes ......


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4373b0ec4b42.gif[/atsimg]

Originally posted by DaRAGE
If israel wants to attack iran they can. Yo think americans control the american military? Gimme a break. They get orders from the top. And those top people dont believe in america. They believe in a NWO

I,ve heard that to but I,ve also heard of dessent in the ranks and some of the brass are not as gung ho about Iran as many would think. Guess we,ll see soon enough.

Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by JustMike

"We are not exactly impotent little babies," Brzezinski said. "They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?.."

I was under the impression that the US no longer has military control of Iraqi airspace -- so is that incorrect? It seems to me that if Iraqi airspace is technically in the control of the Iraqis, then the whole perspective changes.


[edit on 22/9/09 by JustMike]

The U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA)
The U.S airforce patrols Iraqi airspace on behalf of the Iraqis. So if the Iraqis refused permission for the Israelis to use their airspace , it would be U.S forces who would be charged with seeing that an incursion was not permitted.

Alternative routes ......


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4373b0ec4b42.gif[/atsimg]

That,s a good point, never looked at it that way. there probably is some sort of agreement binding us to protect Iraq. You would think so, since we trashed their military.

Originally posted by wfaherty
If your crazy neighbor 2 miles away has a mortar that can hit you,and has nerve gas shells and does not like you,how long do you wait to remove the threat he is to you??

The trouble is we can't decide which one is the crazy neighbour!

I think trying to guess what the US will or wont do is denying a fact that is believed true by so many other countries and their people.

Just like everyone knows Israel has the "bomb" then everyone knows that Israel has so much power over political decision making in the US.

I doubt the American system will ever do anything that shows lack of support for Israel, no matter who they want to attack. Israel and America are deadly bed partners and my American brothers and sisters who post in this thread need to remember that.

We live in a time when we need to be telling those we love how much we love them.

respects

[edit on 22-9-2009 by captiva]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You are a little clueless about the dual citizenship issue. If your father is Italian and you were born in the US, guess what, you can go and get Italian citizenship. I know several people who have done that.

You world view appears to be one of isolationism. That's fine if you think we live in 1909 and not 2009. This is an interconnected world, and we are part of it. If England, France or Italy decided to launch an attack on Iran, should the US shot down their planes? Should the US take out Europe's Nuclear infrastructure?

Guess what, Israel is a hell of a lot more like Europe than it is like its mid-east neighbors.

You say that the US shouldn't support Israel or Iran, but you lie. Your posts have always been decidedly one sided supporting Muslims (whether they are Iranians or Palestinians) and always trashing Israel. Don't play this neutral good American game when anyone can read your old posts and see your ideology.

I wont pretend to be neutral. I support the US and our allies. That includes Israel. I hate countries that hate the US. Have you ever heard of an Israeli rally where the people chant "Death to America"? I didn't think so.