Tired of military bashing...

Originally posted by Xenographer
I'm just glad that most liberals seem to support the troops, if not the war. The last thing we need is a Viet Nam-style welcome-home.

Thank you for putting it so well. I don't support this war but those that are fighting it, with the exception of the few nuts, that's a different story.


Mcgotti, "If that was true people would not have been going awol and moving to canada.

Haven't noticed increased traffic from the States.

"Your delusional if you think the military gives a damn whether you agree with the war or not....Try telling your buddies out on the battle field that you disagree with the war and want a supply job lol.....you will have a bullet in the back of your head in minutes.. "

That war ended 29 years ago. This one has reached that proportion, YET. Please, go to sleep, you can't compare the two, YET.


[Edited on 20-5-2004 by intrepid]

[Edited on 20-5-2004 by intrepid]

[Edited on 20-5-2004 by intrepid]

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Where did you get that crazy idea? People, in the military, who do not want to fight can either request transfer to a non combat unit (ie supply) or put in for conscientous objector status.

The military does not want people who do not want to fight to have to go into a combat zone. It would endanger their fellow soldiers and undermine unit morale.

Are you being sarcastic? I was at Ft. Bragg when this whole thing started, and went there not soon after. For months before, we were getting ready to go. A lot of people tried a lot of things not to go. We brought them, kicking and screaming. And a lot of people tried to leave once we got there. The amazing part to me is how many people we sent home. People were just going nuts, they couldn't handle the stress. It was common to take the bolts from people's rifle, because they were unstable. Guys and gals you used to drink and joke with just cracked. It was weird and awkward. My signal battalion, went with a lot of people. A couple of months later, our ranks were thin. I left in December, and of course, I wanted to leave a war zone, but a part of you feels guilty for leaving your buddies behind. It's not a love for this invasion or the Army, it's just your buddies. But not so guilty I would of stayed! And I don't know anyone who wouldn't hop on the first plane out if they had the chance. Better to leave when you could, rather than in a body bag.
I'm on IRR status for the next three years, so I'll probably go again. If they call me back up, I'll request a transfer to a non-combat unit and see what they say.

Originally posted by intrepid


Mcgotti, "If that was true people would not have been going awol and moving to canada.

Haven't noticed increased traffic from the States.

Umm...come on guy...think about it...Of coarse no one is moving yet...THEY HAVE NOT STARTED THE DRAFT!!

They start to draft again Ill bet anything they will have lock down our borders tighter than communist east berlin to keep people from leaving the U.S.(at least people eligable for the draft)

and whats with the "goto sleep" comment? dude I goto sleep when I choose..but thanks for looking out for me

www.washingtonpost.com...

Oh, It is more than a few isolated incidents. Of course there are the uninformed that are still trying to downplay it as a few bad apples.

I figured it out.
The Bush administration is fighting for oil, with soldiers.
The soldiers are fighting for their lives, with weapons.
The soldiers are fighting against the Bush administration, with cameras.
The bush administration is losing the information war.

They start to draft again Ill bet anything they will have lock down our borders tighter than communist east berlin to keep people from leaving the U.S.(at least people eligable for the draft)
www.brownsvilleherald.com...

Looks like they took care of that yesterday

On Afirmative action, I cry bull#.

You assume everyne on here is gonna buy your line of Bull# with COMMSEC and OPSEC.

You have broken both by getting on here and stating what you have.

Youre also not intelligent enough to be in the airforce. Your grammar and language skills show someone who couldnt get an ASVAB score high enough to join the Marines, let alone the air force.

I was a 52D (power generation equipmewnt repairer, or geneator mechanic for short). I was in a Patriot missile unit. For over half my enlistment, I was stationed on Air Force Bases. I have been around enough airforce to know, you aint one of em.

First off your comments about morale show you know NOTHING. Troops when I was in bad mouthed the president. (I was in under Klinton, sadly, you can thank him for the sorry state of the armed forces today).

Many soldiers even back then held a cyccism towards the govornment and commander in chief. Much eye rolling when they told us, if we were captured, our govornment would come rescue us. Our NCOs made side notes, if we are captured, kiss your ass goodbye, just ask the guys in nam.

The true morale of soldiers will never be broadcast on TV, because the highe up dont want the truth. Whenever we had inspections, from CI inspection to surprise ones, most soldiers were herded off to other places to engage in bull# exercises of no training value, but they were showy. papaerwork and documents, records, were always doctored up to look good. A nice shine job, a few fast talkers to tapdance through the inspections. A handful of soldiers were selected to dine with the general or whoever came through, those soldiers were briefed on how to respond to questions, what to say and what not to say. So, when an outsider is asking a soldier whats going on, hows life, he can expect to be fed a line of oure grade a bull# that the unit commander approved.

We werent even allowed to talk to the media. Our leaders told us if we were approached by anyone in the media, to say nothing and direct theem to the units public relations officer.

But behind the scenes, behind all the "weve got a job to do fluff" is a different story. Bitter cyncism as troops roll thier eyes at the bull#, they know what a crock it was.

When I was in Saudi, I aske my commander what we wee doing there. The Saudis were far from democratic, they were asshole, and it was well known they supported terror. I asked, since the gulf war ended, what we were doing there. He rolled his eyes, smiled, and said, you know why. ( I did, I was just trying to see if anyone else realized it). It was his 4th rotation in SWA, he saids,, its all about thier oil, were here for thier oil.

So, the soldiers now know they have been lied to. Now that they are in the middle of it.

But I condemn anyone who calls them idiots saying they had a choice in going. NO, they do not, you refuse to go to iaq, you spend years in prison, get a dishonorable dischargee, and are screwed for life.

When many of us joined the services, we did it because we wanted to defend our countires. We did not know what wed actually be doing when we signed up. WE didnt know anymore than the general american public knows.

We only find out too late once were in and locked. By bashing the US military, you alienate potential allies to your cause. Look at curme. Look at me. we were both soldiers. Now we are anti war. Many veterans come our ever suspicious and distrustful of the gov. Unlike others, who become antigovornment through things they read, we became what we are because we were there first hand.

So lay off the soldiers, people. They are learning the hard way what you are learning in the comfort and safety of your own homes.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by teenagehousewife
but if i did i would seriously question their intelligence, because being a soldier is giving up your freedom to choose to fight

Where did you get that crazy idea? People, in the military, who do not want to fight can either request transfer to a non combat unit (ie supply) or put in for conscientous objector status.

The military does not want people who do not want to fight to have to go into a combat zone. It would endanger their fellow soldiers and undermine unit morale.

in theory, sure, but there are a lot of non-combat units that are in areas where they do have to fight (taji, for example) and their units are NOT excepting requests for transfers right now. they may not be invading and conquering, but the are shooting and getting shot at, and that qualifies as fighting too. the military needs everyone they can get.

and as a member of the military, i would expect you to know that you don't have the same freedom of choice as civilians do, it's kind of common sence.

Originally posted by teenagehousewife

in theory, sure, but there are a lot of non-combat units that are in areas where they do have to fight (taji, for example) and their units are NOT excepting requests for transfers right now. they may not be invading and conquering, but the are shooting and getting shot at, and that qualifies as fighting too. the military needs everyone they can get.

What? They have to accept the request and take action on them. That takes time. Releasing a soldier from combat duty takes a investigation to ensure that the service member is being honest about his reasons.

and as a member of the military, i would expect you to know that you don't have the same freedom of choice as civilians do, it's kind of common sence.

The only freedoms that I gave up is the right to publicly criticize my chain of command, and I have to request permission to travel greater than 300 miles from where I am stationed. Other than that I enjoy the same rights as my civilian friends.

I choose to join the Navy.
I choose what I wanted to be trained in.
I choose where I got stationed (fortunately the Navy agreed with that).

Perhaps you can point out which "freedom of choice" that I am missing out on?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
On Afirmative action, I cry bull#.

You assume everyne on here is gonna buy your line of Bull# with COMMSEC and OPSEC.

You have broken both by getting on here and stating what you have.

Perhaps you can point out to the rest of us in the military where he broke both of those? I have read all of his posts and I fail to see where he broke them.

I realize I'm not in the loop on this thread, and I'm not reading 80 some posts to catch up...

But does this have anything to do with all the blogs and sites laughing their butts off at all the homoerotic aggression at Abu Ghraib?

CLEARLY these guys have issues. Serious closet cases.

Yet the whole chest beating, macho, homophobic "we don't want no gays in our military" lives on.

Right. Cause it takes a straight guy to rape and sodomize.

Thats funny, they finally let women in and they are raping young boys instead. We used to have a country that was admired and Bush has ruined that with his embarrasing self. We used to have a military that was admired and now these fags are ruining that. Any reports of lesbian stuff going on or just the homo guys.
Oh man this is not making me look good as an American.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
On Afirmative action, I cry bull#.

You assume everyne on here is gonna buy your line of Bull# with COMMSEC and OPSEC.

You have broken both by getting on here and stating what you have.

Youre also not intelligent enough to be in the airforce. Your grammar and language skills show someone who couldnt get an ASVAB score high enough to join the Marines, let alone the air force.

You know, I really am glad that we have so many people here who are so psychic that they can divine what people do for a living.

You, sir, are a moron of the highest caliber. Simply implying, nay, accusing me of lying about my military service does not make it so. I have broken no rules of OPSEC or COMSEC by posting here, and I challenge you to prove your baseless accusations. I have given no information about any operations or capabilities. I have given limited personal information because I value my privacy, especially in a forum such as this, with crackpots such as you lurking in the shadows. Were I of the mind to do so, I could give all personal information, but choose not to do so. That is what irks you, but too bad; live with it.

There was another who attacked me, claiming I was not in the Air Force. He was a moron as well, and is now banned. I�ll tell you what. You have my permission to ask SimonGray if the IP address I normally post from correlates to an Air Force base. Please, go ask him. But once you do find out what an azz you have made of yourself, come back and let everyone know. That is, if you have the intestinal fortitude to do so.

Oh, and by the way, we ALL laughed at Clinton and criticized him profusely. What serviceman would want a deserter as Commander in Chief?
Do us all a favor. If you wish to make baseless accusations, at least come up with a better reason than, "because I say so". It proves what an absolute idiot you really are.

If brains were gas, you wouldn't have enough to drive a mini-bike around the inside of a Cheerio...


[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

You, sir, are a moron of the highest caliber. Simply implying, nay, accusing me of lying about my military service does not make it so. I have broken no rules of OPSEC or COMSEC by posting here, and I challenge you to prove your baseless accusations.

Hey AR,
Skadi is a woman (thought I would clear that out). I asked her about the proof on Friday, and she has yet to respond. Makes me wonder if she really knows what COMMSEC and OPSEC are and what constitutes breaking them.

There was another who attacked me, claiming I was not in the Air Force. He was a moron as well, and is now banned.

Where and when was that? I would love to read that thread. I am sure that he was sufficiently chastised.

from COOL HAND
Hey AR,
Skadi is a woman (thought I would clear that out). I asked her about the proof on Friday, and she has yet to respond

Why would she prove to you that she is a woman? Pretty nosy of you, I'd say.

Here's a question. Something I've heard in this thread any many, many other places:

"I support the troops, but I don't support the war"

Something about that statement doesn't seem right. It appears to be a way of cya. I can understand not supporting both, or supporting both, but supporting one and not supporting the other..???

I'm probably just reading too much into it. I dunno.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Hey AR,
Skadi is a woman (thought I would clear that out). I asked her about the proof on Friday, and she has yet to respond. Makes me wonder if she really knows what COMMSEC and OPSEC are and what constitutes breaking them.


Where and when was that? I would love to read that thread. I am sure that he was sufficiently chastised.

HAAAA !!!! Well, just goes to show that you don't know to whom you are speaking when you post here. Makes no difference...he/she'll get the picture.

McGotti was the slime ball, a real troll if I ever saw one. HE was absolutely vile, while I held my tongue to a point, as it was in the "War on Terrorism" forum. He also sent me a couple of profane U2U's, but I didn't even need to complain, as he was banned before I got the chance. I gave Simon the go ahead to tell him if my IP correlated to a base as well. I'm just a little tired of these self righteous right wing punks questioning my service because they are too yellow to serve themselves. Ilove it when a civilian tells me they "know" I'm not AF. Hell, if I'm not Air Force, what am I doing sitting here in this flight suit!!! Nomex is hot, and the stuff doesn't breathe very well.

McGotti's posts have been purged I guess, as they are no longer in the forum...sorry, you would have gotten a kick out of it. He called me a liar about everything from my service to my education, the U2U'd me saying he actually believed me, but wanted to be an ass, so he attacked me in public. Talk about a jack ass, eh? I�ll U2U you that one...it's a hoot....




[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Originally posted by jsobecky

"I support the troops, but I don't support the war"

That's the John Kerry support statement...just like, " I voted FOR the 84 billion before I voted AGAINST it...."




[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]