MEN: You are being chemically castrated.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
you cant possibly be male...only a woman would say something so completely out of touch with how her brothers think...

I have to agree with you here for the most part.. but maybe he was offended by the truth of it all.

It speaks volumes, doesn't it?

- Mea

Originally posted by Veritas Lux Mea

Originally posted by nikiano
BUT....if you look at the amount of gay men these days compared to straight men....I have to ask myself....are there more of them, or is it just my imagination?

No, its definitely NOT your imagination! 6/10 of the men I have met within the last few years have ALL been self-proclaimed homosexuals or bisexuals. That's absolutely staggering compared to how 'rare' homosexuality *USED* to be in males only a couple of decades back.

I chaulked this spike up to something else (culture?).. but Loam is onto something profound here..

Thank you for the VERY interesting post, Loam!

- Mea

You might want to double check your science there, Veritas.



Although estrogen and estrogen-like analogues may be responsible for an increased incidence of feminized secondary sexual characteristics amoung males; homosexuality is NOT a secondary sexual characteristic.


In fact, in males there is evidence to suggest that a tendency toward homosexual identification is the result of a feotus being exposed to excessive amounts of Testosterone while in utero.


The "staggering" fact that you may have become aware of recently is that so many more people are no longer afraid to declare their sexual orientation. Homosexuality, likely as not, was never "rare", as you believed. It was just hidden out of fear and social convention.


But conventions change with the societies that bear them.

Hmm.. Terrible to hear.

I guess this explains all those shaved chests and guyliner.

If it is all male animals that are being 'feminized' across the globe then I highly doubt we can pin point this to tofu hot dogs...

Something tells me global changes like this may in fact be the result of a change in the Globe itself. Mother Earth deciding she wants more women. Maybe she senses some issues on the surface and she wants to control the population until she corrects the problem.

I found this quote in the article absurdly sexist:

Men really are the weaker sex

I mean what's the real implication with that statement? Men really are the weaker sex...when they are like women.

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
Homosexuality, likely as not, was never "rare", as you believed. It was just hidden out of fear and social convention.

But conventions change with the societies that bear them.

Perhaps 'rare' was the wrong word to employ; nonetheless, we've been through this debate a billion times before, haven't we? You don't have a definite answer as to why someone is homosexual, neither do I. But the fact is there are more men now than ever who are FEMININE in body and mind as well as full on homosexual.

You can't possibly say that a more open society is the ONLY reason for this increase. I highly doubt something so 'natural' and rampant could be hidden behind backs for hundreds of years.. until now..

Offensive or not, something more than 'society' is making our men more feminine and even increasing homosexuality. This is the bottom line.

And Loam has provided a very important piece of the puzzle here.

- Mea

most people on heres take on this is pretty rediculous. Low testosterone and high estrogen DO NOT make people attracted to the same sex. Actually in all the "advanced societies" of their times, whether it be greece, rome, or america, there is a huge growth of homosexual tendencies in direct proportion to the amount of freedom of thought those people are allowed.

However, on the other hand, many studies have shown the massive drop in testosterone levels in recent males. In fact, the average testosterone of males aged 50 in the 80's is now the average testosterone of males age 30 in the new millenium. The levels for a man in his 30's is supposed to be 700, however i got mine tested (im 33) and its 260. Because its "within normal human limits" my doctors said its ok....my western doctors that is. When i went to a naturopath they said no, for my age its supposed to be between 700 and 1000. When i was discussing this with all my male friends my age, and telling them my symptoms, every single one said "damn, i need to get mine checked too, because i have those same symptoms"!! and the first one to get it checked came back with a level of 259, which, of course, his doctor said, "oh, thats ok, thats within normal limits"....despite the fact that we suffer from fatigue, low libido, inability to break down fat, low muscle tissue retention, and low motivation. Western doctors dont know crap apparently, and few people recognize this drastic change that is overtaking millions of males in a society where foods like soy and other estrogen containing foods are considered "healthy" and estrogen like elements are used in all bottled waters and beverages to soften the plastic of the bottles. Amazing.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
I dont follow you, it speaks volumes tome....volume after volume of blank pages, or mellville....like theres a dif....

EDIT: I don't want to point fingers and stir trouble.. I'll keep personal opinions to myself instead.. =)

- Mea

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Veritas Lux Mea]

Ho boy! These chest-pumping machismo reclamations seem to be popping every now and then, I guess the direction of this thread, in spite of being presented with scientific data, is already predictable. Let’s hope intellectual honesty prevails and not some attempt on gender bastardization.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Exv8densez]

Originally posted by Veritas Lux Mea
You can't possibly say that a more open society is the ONLY reason for this increase.

I think he was suggesting that there wasn't an increase to begin with.

Folks:

None of the material I presented speaks to sexual preference and its causation issues.

The heart of this thread is the description and scale of physical changes apparently caused by endocrine disrupting substances in every class of vertebrate on the planet.




[edit on 19-9-2009 by loam]

reply to post by Veritas Lux Mea

TLDR? I'm saying what LOAM said =)


I think you're not taking our culture into consideration. For example, look at ancient Rome, homosexuality wasn't looked down upon; any sexuality was A OK, the goats were terrified though.

I don't think sexuality really has much to do with how masculine you are. Not all gay men act fruity, that's just the face we assign to gay men so they generally act accordingly.

I'm sure there have been many many many men who we would consider the most masculine of their kind who have had homosexual tendencies.

The argument the OP makes really isn't about sexuality, it's about biological mutations and deformaties (sp?, too tired to care), as well as the overall attitude of the male gender of species. I would venture, if I read more of this material, the males would be less aggressive, less proficient hunters, less effective at finding mates, and more passive.

The point is, we have no Beowulf's, no Aeneas', no more Alexanders. Our period will offer few stories of glory and valour, why is this? Could it be because our global culture has prevented it? It certainly seems so, I don't see why the chemicals we pollute our water and our air with wouldn't further this process, as sad as it is.

/ramble

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Mr Headshot]

I personally believe alot of the chemicals today do indeed cause all sorts of endocrine disruption. However, that might not be the only thing causing the seemingly loss of "maleness." Genetically, the loss has been going on for over 1000 years.

From NPR: www.npr.org...

But researchers have found that, over the millennia, the Y chromosome has lost most of it genes.

Another article about the "incredible shrinking Y" chromosome from the NY Times.

www.nytimes.com...

'Although most men are unaware of the peril, the Y chromosome has been shedding genes furiously over the course of evolutionary time, and it is now a fraction of the size of its partner, the X chromosome