What does drinking out of a skull signify?

Originally posted by grover
That you really need to invest in some decent glassware.

Seriously! If Masonic Lodges practicing the Templar Degrees of the York Rite are not able to afford a real skull, let alone some decent glassware, and instead have to drink out of cheeky plastic Halloween decorations during their Initiations, then do we really need to worry about the Freemasons taking over the World Bank, the Fed, or Wall Street?

Or is someone suggesting that's where the Bail-Out money really went...To buy Masonic Lodges some decent glassware? Puh-lease!

reply to post by fraterormus

I have said it before...if all these secret societies are really running the world I wish they would do a better job of it.

Originally posted by grover
I have said it before...if all these secret societies are really running the world I wish they would do a better job of it.

So true!

But I think the fact that they are called "secret" is what gives people the wrong impression. They are only "secret" in the sense that they won't publicly disclose their membership, allowing that to be a matter of choice by each member whether they want their affiliation to be known to others, and to keep the details of their initiations secret (because you don't want copy-cats stealing your Intellectual Property and misusing it or making claims that they are the "real" deal). Other than those two things, most "Secret Societies" are actually quite public, and many are even incorporated. Their Charters (Mission Statements) are publicly known...so they have no "secret" agendas.

However, that is the problem with an unseen, undefinable TPTB. People will see them lurking in the shadows and try to tie them in with anything they are unfamiliar with...whether it be Jews, Masons, Illuminati, Occultists, Immigrants, Martians, or what have you...although in each of those cases, I have yet seen any substantiated evidence to attribute such to any of them!

Jews have plenty of their own concerns to worry about...they have neither the time or inclination to bother with World Domination.

Masons are too busy wearing Man-Aprons and waving Scepters and banging their Gavel (and as previously stated, have to resort to drinking out of plastic Halloween decorations) to bother with World Domination. If they controlled even a significant part of the World and it's Finances they wouldn't have to resort to never-ending Fund-Raisers for Children's Hospitals and other Charitable Organizations.

The Illuminati died out in the late 17th century and any group claiming to be the Illuminati ever since are just poseurs. I laugh in the general direction of the Illuminutty.

Occultists are far too busy with uncovering arcane wisdom and hidden knowledge to bother with anything that isn't at least 500 years old. Besides, their voracious Book Habits cause them to blow any wealth they may have amassed on yet more books! (Bibliophilia might not be a disorder in the DSM IV, but it should be!)

Immigrants are everyone's kicking dog. If they were the ones in control of anything do you think they would have left their homes to start over in poverty anew in a new country?

Although we don't know much about Martians (other than they apparently need our women), I think it's a little premature to attribute TPTB to them.

Personally, I think it would serve people better to point to groups like the IMF and World Bank, or even a handful of Multinational Corporations to attribute TPTB to rather than to plastic skull drinking York Rite Masons.

Originally posted by fraterormus

Seriously! If Masonic Lodges practicing the Templar Degrees of the York Rite are not able to afford a real skull

It's not really about money. There's a lot of legal issues in the United States concerning possession of human remains. The original Templars apparently used the skull of a slain enemy or fallen comrade. Obviously, Masonic Templars don't have access to such things.



[edit on 24-9-2009 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Shadow18433



2 Freemasons knight Templar have already confirmed, they drank into real
'' HUMAN SKULL ''

You felt squeezed, so you are trying to find a exit door by changing your testimony after 1 week...

You just proved how dishonest Freemasons are, you have no probleme lying to hide the truth. The question is... how far are you willing to go, to derail the thread.

Freemasons have absolutly no Honor...

You seem to have no sense of reality. Where do you think fraternal clubs would get real human skulls from?

lol....I think, as long as it suited your bigotry, you'd believe pretty much anything.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
It's not really about money. There's a lot of legal issues in the United States concerning possession of human remains. The original Templars apparently used the skull of a slain enemy or fallen comrade. Obviously, Masonic Templars don't have access to such things.

Hey, who's side are you on anyway? I was trying to defend Masonry through satirical witticisms. Now look what you've done!

Possession of human remains would indeed be a problem for Masonic Lodges as such might be in violation of local Municipal laws, and you would need documentation of the skulls origins to make sure not to violate 25USC3001etseq. Drinking out of a real skull would pose even more problems as how the skull was prepared and handled would fall under the purview of local Health Regulations and the C.D.C. if it were to be used as a drinking vessel by multiple people considering bone is porous, and as such it is an ideal home for bacteria and mold, especially if boiled or bleached, exposed to light or moisture, or stored in plastic.

And since you can't just take the remains of a slain foe in modern day society without being locked up in the looney-bin, you have to rely on Chinese imports of human skulls, which where is the nobility in drinking a fine Earl Grey (let alone a 1982 Château Lafite) out of a poor peasant farmer's skull?

I do agree that drinking out of "cheeky plastic Halloween decorations" is by far the better route if one is going to go down that avenue. Besides, it is the symbolism that is important in an Initiation. Not everything has to literal to leave a suitable imprint upon the psyche. Our subconscious could care less whether it is a plastic skull-shaped cup or a real human skull as it is going to interpret and store that symbolic reference the same regardless.

Originally posted by fraterormus
Besides, it is the symbolism that is important in an Initiation. Not everything has to literal to leave a suitable imprint upon the psyche.

Or an imprint in the cranium if we were using real setting mauls. Normal people understand the symbolic nature of the ritual, reactionaries do not.

You are very much correct it is part of the 33rd degree. the ritual is ment for one man and one man alone. The transformation fom man to antichrist. This is what the ritual is about. When the right man drinks from the skull it will envoke great inner change and set loose the evil inside him. This will manifest and make the man or chosen one become fully realised. Or so the masons are led to believe.
Dont ask me how i know. I simply do.

Spirit

Originally posted by kingswillquiver

Originally posted by fraterormus
The reference in Dan Brown's book is to a ritual dating back to Merovingian times that is mimicked in the Latin Missae or Catholic Mass.

As the Merovingians, like all other Celtic Tribes, were head-hunters, they believed that the power of a person resided in their head. So, they would take the heads of their Saints and place them in a Chalice or Graal and pour wine over the skull. This would transmute the wine into "Holy Blood" that was invigorated with the mystical power of that Saint. The Catholics adopted the same ritual for their Mass, but left out the skull of Jesus, although the concept is precisely the same (transmutation of the sacramental wine into the Blood of Christ).

Sounds like black magic to me.

Do you think this practice pleases God, is that what you are saying.

Which God?

From what I've read on the subject, drinking out of the skull is required to become 33rd Degree. I guess that about the time they've got your soul.

Sounds nothing to me like "becoming a better man", as the Masons would have us believe.

Wow...all the Jacks in the Box, Wolfpacked to spin the thread, to hide the truth that some of you even admited. It's seems like you want to clean and paint all the walls, to hide the crime scene...

did i heard the freemason's distress signal...

Originally posted by fraterormus


I do agree that drinking out of "cheeky plastic Halloween decorations" is by far the better route if one is going to go down that avenue. Besides, it is the symbolism that is important in an Initiation. Not everything has to literal to leave a suitable imprint upon the psyche. Our subconscious could care less whether it is a plastic skull-shaped cup or a real human skull as it is going to interpret and store that symbolic reference the same regardless.

True. Skulls are sometimes found in the rituals of the Scottish Rite as well. Although the plastic props actually used are rather life-like. I have seen more than one candidate examine the relics after the degree ceremony has closed, wondering if they were real!

I would suggest the skull is very real.

Probably from some past Mason that
didn't keep the oath.

All I know, is once you do the
ritual, you are on a no return
trip to Hell, or at least,
separation from
God.

Having fun?


Edit to add: A little piece from the Bible

2 Samuel 21:12-14 (New International Version)

12 he went and took the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan from the citizens of Jabesh Gilead. (They had taken them secretly from the public square at Beth Shan, where the Philistines had hung them after they struck Saul down on Gilboa.) 13 David brought the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan from there, and the bones of those who had been killed and exposed were gathered up.

14 They buried the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan in the tomb of Saul's father Kish, at Zela in Benjamin, and did everything the king commanded. After that, God answered prayer in behalf of the land.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by kingswillquiver]

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
I would suggest the skull is very real.

So? You're not a Mason, you've never seen a Masonic ceremony, and rely on fictitious accounts.

Your suggestions aren't worth very much.

Well if we are going to start posting out-of-context passages from the Book of the Holy Law, then we might as well get started:

And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father.

Genesis 19

So what does this have to do with skull drinking? Nothing.

The bandying about of the Bible (and Islam, and Christianity) to condemn others to Hell is one of the most repugnant acts you can perform.

I get so sick and tired of you guys coming in here and damning us Masons and you have no idea what you are talking about.

We sit here and take the accusations of murder, rape, molestation, devil worship year after year because they are ludicrous. You guys hide behind the anonymity of the Internet while Masons live our lives publicly trying to carry out the Greatest commandment of the Book of the Sacred Law - to love each other, and to love the Lord above all else.

Until you have faced your own mortality, and faced death, you can not understand the unbelievable Gift we have been given by our Creator, our Lord, our Architect.

Yet we will labor on behind closed doors because society doesn't understand our peculiar system of allegory and symbol.

So please... before you throw the Holy Bible, the WORD around to condemn others - please, please read it and concentrate on it. Absorb it's knowledge and its gift.

I can tell you one thing about the "Mysteries and Secrets" we as Masons (and in my case Knight of the Temple) hold dear. All of the Secrets of Masonry and it's ultimate purpose are in plain sight for all to see. They are RIGHT THERE in our blueprint for the temple - The Volume of the Sacred Law - The Great Light - The Word.

I will tell you something else as well - If you would climb outside your prejudicial mind and LOOK around you will see the grand secrets and mysteries of the ages that have been preserved for you.

Above all Masons will not condemn you. We are all a part of the brotherhood of man under the Fatherhood of God, and if that gets me a trip to your definition of Hell then so mote it be.

reply to post by emsed1


And Lot and his daughters were never heard from again.

Are you anti-God too? I sense this is what Freemasonry is all about.

That's why you don't accept atheists. They ALREADY don't believe in God.

No need to convert them.

Do the devils deeds dirt cheap.

i went to my local Fraternal charity association and...

i ask the director ( Yap... a director... they do not call him a Wishful Master...)
'' do you ask those who wants to become members, if they believe in a GOD. ''

- he looked at me and said '' what..! this isn't a Temple, it's a regular building, where charity volunteers meet once a week to organise charity events and get together as friends not brothers... ''

i ask the director ( Yap... a director... they do not call him a Wishful Master...)
'' do you have a learning degrees structures, base on ancient rituals. ''

- he said '' what are you talking about...we have absolutely no learning degrees of any sort, we help our community the best we can and we gain the feeling of self accomplishment out of it, that’s all...''

i ask the director ( Yap... a director... they do not call him a Wishful Master...)
'' so i assume you don't have Ritual of any sort, like drinking wine out of a Human skull... ''

- he said '' listen to me...we are not a Religion... but only a fraternal Organisation so Why do you think we would have Rituals...

as for drinking wine out of a skull ( he left his eye to the ceiling.. ) understand that, we are not Satanist freaks...We prefer drinking beers and out of a Cold Glass... ''



So now, at least, i know the difference between a Religious Secret Society,
And a real Fraternal Charity Organisation...

anybody want a Beer..?


[edit on 25-9-2009 by Shadow18433]

[edit on 25-9-2009 by Shadow18433]

Originally posted by Shadow18433
We prefer drinking beers and out of a cold Buck...

anybody want a Beer..?

Why would anyone want to drink a beer out of a cold male deer? Sounds pretty Satanic to me....

to help those who are more visual to understand the
differences between the two organisation's taste...

and laught a little...

'' Beer will always be Better...''

reply to post by Shadow18433


And then I realised that I'd mistaken the local AA meeting for a Masonic Lodge and boy didn't I feel silly.

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
reply to post by emsed1

 

And Lot and his daughters were never heard from again.

Are you anti-God too? I sense this is what Freemasonry is all about.

That's why you don't accept atheists. They ALREADY don't believe in God.

No need to convert them.

Do the devils deeds dirt cheap.

What are the 'devil's deeds'?

Perhaps you are referring to the work I've done over the last year:

In March I spent a week in what was (at the time) the deadliest city in the world, Juarez, building a house for a family that did not have one.

In July I took a homeless veteran into my home when he was evicted from his.

Next month my lodge will donate $127,000 to charitable organizations for the elderly including PeaceMeals (meals on wheels) and senior transportation programs. Unfortunately it was a bad year... we gave $142,000 last year.

I don't bring these up as items for congratulation. In fact I wouldn't discuss them at all except I have been accused of doing the 'devil's work'.

Upon his first entrance into a lodge every candidate is asked one question. "In whom do you place your trust?". The ONLY acceptable answer is "In God".

How does this equate in any rational way to being Anti-God?

How does following Christ's Commission equate to the devil's work?

Finally what *IS* your philosophy? Does it include loving your neighbor and helping your fellow man, or is just basically fundamentalist condescension against others whom don't share your Dogma?

Originally posted by Shadow18433
to help those who are more visual to understand the
differences between the two organisation's taste...

and laught a little...

'' Beer will always be Better...''

Beer certainly tastes better than blood... and that nasty grape juice I drank in the Order of the Temple.