Racism is for Ignorant Fools, not ATS.

Originally posted by oneclickaway
It may not have been directly stated, but this thread IS about an assumption that anyone opposing the president is racist because he happens to be of mixed race. It IS about the political ideology of those making this decision.

I'm pretty sure my postings concerning Obama, his administration and advocates are very clear with regards to my nearly universal political opposition to the whole freakin' lot.

And yet, as far as I know, NOTHING I have ever written about any of it has been deemed by this site's management as racist.

So I'm pretty sure the danger you speak of doesn't exist.

I have to admit that I've been critical of Obama's administration and his policies. Having said that, I want to say that I also voted for him.

In my opinion, he was a far better candidate given the fragile nature of international politics. We can go into a recession or possibly a depression - struggle to find work or even food to feed our loved ones. But, all of that is better than starting another war in the middle east and possibly bringing enough blow-back upon the United States that it would never recover. Which is what I was afraid of if McCain would have been elected.

I think Obama's ideas on health care are ridiculous. I think they could possibly bankrupt our nation - maybe faster than these ridiculous wars that our country refuses to admit they can't win. And his approach to our economy is non-existent. The least any administration could do is ATTEMPT to monitor where our tax-payer bailouts went. Alas, we haven't a clue where the majority of our (and our children's childrens) money went. Overseas is the best response we get from most experts. It seems the bulk of our money went to buy up volatile assets outside of our country. I'm not sure how that's going to "bail-out" the U.S. economy, but I'm not the expert on the matter. It is what it is. Not much anyone can do but voice their opinion on the matters.

But, what bothers me more than anything is when someone who doesn't seem to have a problem with what's been transpiring over the last two years comes to the table to offer up their two cents by labeling my opinion on these matters as racist rhetoric. My jaw dropped when I began hearing pundits trying to correlate the words "socialism" with "the N-word".

Labeling anyone who disagrees with President Obama as being racist is ignorance in it's purest form. For those people bypass any sort of intelligent discussion or debate - completely ignoring all facts and figures - and resort to playground antics by name-calling in an effort to defend any policy they can't back-up.

I'm not saying this is what SO is defending or even why this subject was breached here on ATS. SkepticOverlord clearly stated in the OP that there was a difference and he recognizes it. So, I understand that what I've mentioned above isn't what this thread is about - but, it's a rampant problem in American politics today and I wanted to state my opinion on the matters. I feel it needs to be addressed because there is a faction of our political system that's acknowledged this method of rhetorical mud-slinging as a viable form of defending some political policy.

It's absolute B.S. and needs to stop.

... and so does the REAL racism that still exists in American society.

Isnt it the mark of fascism that everyone thinks and repeats the same thing?
Or that those who don't are branded and excluded?
Before WW2, it was expected to be racist. Mainstream propaganda used to promote racism.
Today racists are shunned. But you may have noticed, our real leaders are no less racist than their fathers were 65 years ago.

Also, who has a direct personal interest in anti-racism being the norm? Are these people racists or not? Arent the ones who came up with the anti racist ideology, personaly interested and racist? Arent you some other people's tools or accomplices if you promote that ideology blindly?

And finally, isn't racism a simple biological reaction? Favoring one's people's genes over other people's. Biological instincts are forbidden here and now?

And one more thing... suppose you have been gravely hurt by some people. Say, some of your family were killed and the rest exploited by a certain people who base their actions on radically racist beliefs.

Who could be entitled to telling you not to hate nor harbor resentment towards these people, while you would just be returning their racism towards them as a defense mechanism?

Who could blame you for saying, for example as an african : "the whites have enslaved and extermitated my people because they are evil and sick" ?

Wouldnt it be outrageous to lecture such a black person about necessary tolerance and so on, when that person's people has indeed been maimed or exterminated by a particular people harboring particular practices and ideology?

In that perspective, isnt anti-racism the epitome of violence?

"Oh yeah you've been terribly hurt by us but dont hate us, dont even resent us... that would be racist and you're not allowed to do that".

WHY wouldnt such people be allowed to hate and resent?

Because the perpetrators are untouchable because they are ruling the ones they forbid to be racist?

And are these perpetrators racist or not, to complete the circle?

Beware what mainstream ideology you choose to support. It is rarely for everyone's best.


[edit on 19-9-2009 by quintal]

reply to post by neformore

Originally posted by oneclickaway
It may not have been directly stated, but this thread IS about an assumption that anyone opposing the president is racist because he happens to be of mixed race.

Yes, I wrote that. I still cannot see how you responded saying I was basing anything on skin colour. I am saying that people opposing the president’s views are accused of racism merely because of his skin colour.

If you think that Obamas views on defence, health care, the economy, the middle east, foreign policy, education and other political aspects are based on his skin colour, then I think you have a problem.

I did not write that I thought that. What has his skin colour to do with anything to do with policy?

It is interesting that your very avatar conjures up an image that brings to mind the BNP. It instantly conjures up a racist organisation. I am sure it is unintentional, but you see, racism can be assumed from many things where it does not exist.

No, indeed…I did look at your posting history before writing that. I am saying that it is interesting that racism can be seen where it does not exist. That flag is a symbol that instantly conjures up groups like the BNP. I am aware that it is the Union Jack. But it is also used as a symbol and flag of racist groups. So, no…I was not calling you racist. ..hence the words ‘unintentional’….and…’racism can be assumed from many things where it DOES NOT EXIST’

I don’t think we can communicate at all…so let’s just leave it there.

Originally posted by ColdSteel
all the white folks on this board probably live in nice little white neighborhoods. wouldn't catch them walking down a road after dark in a black neighborhood. you can say you ain't rascist but you're just lying to yourself. all races prefer to be around their own kind. the ignorant fools are the ones that can't look around them and see the truth.

I have to say this is a gross generalization at best, and a way to assume at worst.

I have been in and out of all sorts of environments, where crime is at it's highest, both predominantly white, and predominantly black neighborhoods, and each individual has their own perspective as well as way to handle this type of situation.

For some, it is to avoid these areas, for others like myself, it is to go in, watching my every sector, scanning for possible harm to come me from someone of any color, not because I hate any one color over another, because I do not, but because it is my job to go into those areas, and it as well my job to make sure I am safe and get out alive.

I have delivered pizzas for fifteen years in some of the roughest, nastiest, and most fearful areas (without a weapon), and I have never been robbed, not for a lack of trying, but for my ability in seeing the situation for what it was, reading the correct interpretation of what was going on, and developing a plan to get out alive, without harm coming to anyone, a potential perpetrator, and or myself.

Racism is not about some crack infested neighborhood where everyone scrambles when seeing the "Po-Po" coming, it is about incorrectly hating one color over another, and beating them down in submission through ignorance.

As I stated in a previous post, I went to Junior High School in the heart of the ghetto, it was the only Junior High School at the time, and being a teenager I had no choice, my parents could have moved, I guess, but I would not have chosen to do so if I had the opportunity to do so.

As well, if I had my life to liver over again, I would not choose that differently, because some of my best friends were black or Latino, as a white male, I had more issues with the racist whites, who were into drugs, who were into stalking me because I did not choose to be racist, drug using/drug selling fiends, or choose to join their clique.

I have volunteered to go recruiting Boy Scouts in the ghetto area, not because I am stupid or insane, but because knowing it, and knowing people, I do not fear that which is different, I do not fear those of a different race or skin color.

I do not fear anyone of any color nor nationality.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add.

I live, in what I refer to as the creme de la creme of the scumbag apartments in my area, not because I have to, but because I chose to, since it is close to work, and I know how to defend myself with, or without weapons.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Why do these threads always turn into arguments?

Why do we need to argue and point fingers and feel the need to explain? Why can't we all collectively go "Oh. Well. Maybe that's true. What can I do to change where this is going?"

reply to post by ravenshadow13


or...

"Check. They're not talking about me.... Next."

Just remember ALL OF YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED LIVES IN DIFFERENT BODIES, NOT ALL THE SAME COLOR IN AND OUT. Some not even the same species, if we are eternal which (we are) that means we have put on many different bodies to experience existance.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
If there's one thing that's sorely needed, it's the very-harsh very-sober analytical scrutiny of this administration without the distraction of racism.

I agree. And I think it's REALLY important for everyone to hear this. People like me, who are still open-ended as to their final judgment of Obama, are more likely to DISCOUNT valid criticism if it's surrounded in racism, suggestions of racism, defense of racism, or resisting accusations of racism or ANY personal dislike of the MAN. The more valid criticism of his policies and motives you supply, without the personal stuff, the more likely we (or I should say I) will listen.

The problem is when a minuscule amount of VALID criticism against Obama is surrounded and engulfed by an irrational amount of personal criticism of the man, what he eats, where his wife shops, his religion, his mother, his ethnicity and what he has planned for the death of America, that minuscule amount of valid criticism gets lost.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Actually, I feel there is far-more knee-jerk "you're a racist" being tossed about by defenders of Obama, than racist tendencies within "mainstream" media criticism.

I also agree with this. The media is SHAMEFUL is its accusations of every disagreement or criticism as racist. I'm sick of it. Its purpose to distract and discount the criticism. I say stop fighting it and giving it power... and ignore it instead. Walk on by.

The problem here is that some criticisms lie in a gray area of covert racism. I don't think it's our job to make sure everyone's comments are regulated into one column or the other - racist or non-racist - and that we all agree. (And I'm talking about in general, not here on ATS - you do whatever you see fit.) There's just no way we can know whether someone is being racist when they shout "You Lie" in a joint session of Congress. There may have been racial motives or maybe not. Would he have shouted it at that time if Obama was white? There's no way for us to know.

But I think it's critical that we examine what's going on in government without the attachment of race as a factor in our discussions. I'm rambling. Sorry.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
...a minuscule amount of VALID criticism against Obama...

Funniest thing I've seen today.

Sorry, I'm off topic. But, hell, sue me.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But I think it's critical that we examine what's going on in government without the attachment of race as a factor in our discussions.

In any event, I agree with this bit about keeping the race stuff out of it.



[edit on 19-9-2009 by loam]

Mod Note: Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)


[edit on 19-9-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

The problem is when a minuscule amount of VALID criticism against Obama is surrounded and engulfed by an irrational amount of personal criticism of the man, what he eats, where his wife shops, his religion, his mother, his ethnicity and what he has planned for the death of America, that minuscule amount of valid criticism gets lost.

this is an excellent example of what is NOT racism. every president receives an irrational amount of personal criticism. certainly bush did. clinton did. bush 1 did, what obama eats (don't know how you know this) is not racist but could be a subject of interest because he is a celebrity, same with where his wife shops: celebrities always generate interest in shopping. the obamas have been happy with their celebrity. his "ethnicity"? this one i don't get. he's half white and trots that out whenever convenient in speeches but otherwise emphasizes the black half. we are never allowed to forget the black half for a minute. that's HIS choice. what he has planned for the death of America comes from his own words, his own past and current actions, and the words and actions of his long time associates. nothing inherently back about marxism.

he has been closely connected with black nationalism. that's a political thing. are we required to pretend he doesn't have these associations? that pretense itself is racist.

Well, it could all be summed up much less ambiguously.

1. Anyone making overt racist comments which denigrate a person or persons merely because of the colour of their skin, or racial background, in all topics of discussion, will desist or be censored.

2. Anyone making unfounded accusations of racism in order to stifle all opposition and questioning of the President or members of Government, or to stifle political debate about issues of the policies, legality, background, eligibility, or birthright of the President or any member of his Government will desist or be censored.
Anyone making unfounded accusations of racism in order to stifle debate about the personal actions, allegiance or affiliations to groups or belief systems, public statements and private behaviours which come to light; which define the character of said persons or their close associates, will desist or be censored.

3. Anyone making unfounded accusations of racism in any other topic, about any other person or persons in order to stifle debate will desist or be censored.

Have I missed anything?

Originally posted by loam
Funniest thing I've seen today.

Taking people out of context can be funny... I suppose.

But it discounts the actual meaning behind the thought... I'm pretty sure that's not funny... to me anyway. But have a good laugh.

Originally posted by earlywatcher
this is an excellent example of what is NOT racism.

True. I agree. It's not racism. I wasn't talking about racism. I was talking about criticism in general. And how it can be less or more effective in getting one's point across.

are we required to pretend he doesn't have these associations? that pretense itself is racist.

I don't know where you got this idea. Perhaps you should read my post again. Maybe this will help Loam understand as well.

I am not asking anyone to pretend anything. I'm saying the more you stick to valid criticism of policies and issues, no matter how small, the more likely your audience will be to get your point. If you surround your valid criticism with a bunch of personal criticism, your audience may be likely to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I am not asking anyone to pretend anything. I'm saying the more you stick to valid criticism of policies and issues, no matter how small, the more likely your audience will be to get your point. If you surround your valid criticism with a bunch of personal criticism, your audience may be likely to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

i do see what you mean. we should stick to the big points. yes, that's good. though he got elected on great speeches, promises of things that sounded very good, and his personal history. everything about his past and experience was pretty much scrubbed (chicago political machine affiliations). that might be part of why we dip into personal stuff.

he has appointed a number of radical blacks to serve in his administration. one can't leave the black aspect off radical because they do appear to hate whites. the very definition of racism. and yet obama, knowing this, appointed them. van jones for example.

i certainly don't read as many threads as the mods, but i have never seen an openly racist statement about obama. no reference to his blackness being the reason for any problem or fault. i have seen the most vile remarks and contempt directed toward women, jews, gays, probably others. I would like to see the same scrutiny directed to all vile personal remarks, as SO applies to racism.

reply to post by earlywatcher


Now you're getting it. This did not stem from criticism of Obama. It is the vile remarks you mentioned, which have been on a great uptick since the election, that are the reason for this measure by Admin, IMO.

Oh, that we could change the world!

I havent read this whole thread but i gather by the title the implication is deny ignorance and racism is ignorant.

With all my charm and fading looks, i am a white chica from Cuba, you know, the type with the highlights in my hair, dark eyes and light skin. I could pass for white , however, i still to this day have a slight accent most people can pick up right away and THAT has gotten me mistreated a few times in my life. Its so sad that racism is strong as ever and i know you mean well, but lets face it...it is never going to go away.

I do however, hope that the ATS community does deny ignorance in this other life we have here amongst ourselves and realize we are all brothers and sisters and must respect one another and how we speak about others.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Judging from the color of the title, the appropriation is likely directed to the "green man" that the SETI has been looking for and couldn't find for the reason that the earthlings are a wrong color, retarded speaking monkeys -- a genetic trash of the universe not worth to be signaled to.

Aah, hell with the space racists. There is a BIGGER issue right here on this planet that needs to be resolved one way or the other -- I mean there is a LARGER issue. Sorry about that.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Are you sure it's not allowed? What about this thread...

posted on 15-9-2009 @ 03:33 PM     single    this post    "quote"REPLY TO:
DIGG ATS

Americans are Ignorant, Lazy, Gutless Cowards who live in Fear

that's the thread title... I was personally a little shocked.

reply to post by Chovy


A couple of things. First off Americans are not a race. Secondly the OP is American. He's commenting on his own country. You should read the OP to see what the thread is about.