What hit the pentagon on 9/11/01?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by gavron

 

Oh, you noticed something I didn't!!!!!

Star for you!!!!!

making moe sense, now........hmmmmmmmmmmm

Is it? Well, lets start a thread. I am would LOVE to see you all trip all over yourselves trying to prove this one.

I guess the topic was too tough for you guys so you are going for this. Whatever, I am game.


I guess you don't even have that option. Oh well, better stick to the topic and off personal attacks.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by gavron
Funny, I thought this thread was about "What hit the pentagon on 9/11/01" and not about Ultima1, oops I mean Lillydale.

Given that Lillydale types nothing like Ultima1 did, I fail to see your point, gavron.

Besides, before accusing another member of being someone else, it might help to also have some proof to support your claim.

CUE STANDARD MOD SPEECH

Hi People,

I do understand that discussion of such topics can get a bit *passionate*...however can we all please focus on the POST and not the POSTERS.

...aaaand back on topic we go...



Cheers.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


What "deal"????

I posed ONE challenge, and YOUR response is a scatter-shot barrage of DEMANDS???????

Where is that proof of DNA that survived thousands of degrees for days?

Are you married to Lillydale? What does that have to do with whether or not I'm a pilot...because THAT were your (and funny, in the exact same words, Lillydale's) claim. WHY change the subject? Getting too hot for ya?

Where are those passengers found in seats?

I repeat, WHAT does that have to do with what we were discussing. I am able to speak factually and with experience to the aspects of operating the Boeing 757. What it can do, what it can't...and to respond to those who say it CAN'T do certain things, when what they allege is false for whatever reason.

IF you wish to discuss passengers' and crewmwmbers' bodies in seats (macabre that it is...hey, it's your fetish!) then start a thread on it.

MY only contribution to the possible --- and this is so ghoulish I hate to even mention it --- possible state of the bodies that were onboard the airplane is that they underwent a tremendous deceleration...(YOU know...the opposite of acceleration? Surely even you two can understand that...). Those kind of G-forces can wreak havoc on the Human body....how about YOU TWO go out and look into other incidences of high-speed airplane impacts and do some research. There aren't many....One just popped int omy head, look up an Air Lauda Boeing 767 that had an inflight break-up when a thrust reverser accidentally deployed. Oh, right....me and my pilot talk. Deal with it!

Where is your explanation for no Arabs in the supposed autopsy results?

THAT question made me flash on that scene from Young Frankenstein when the monster is trying to pluck imaginary butterflies from the air....

Misdirection extraordinaire....wow!

Start a darn separate thread if it is THAT important to you! Doesn't belong here.

Where is your proof for whatever reason for the absence of wings you are going with today?

Huh???? Is it possible you STILL cannot understand the way that materials when subjected to very high-speed impacts will behave???

Do they teach physics in high school anymore? Are people really this out of touch with the real world, and have cartoons and fantasy Hollywood film effects replaced critical thinking and reasoning skills???

Where is your proof that you are a pilot?

FINALLY!!!! The point of all this!

I won't jump through hoops to try to figure out what will satisfy YOU.

It's up to YOU to ask specific questions, as I cannot read your minds (and man, I wish I could...)

Anyone with half a brain can already understand what I've written, in its entirety, and will see my bona fides in the way I write (speak) and the terminology I use. Except, of course YOU...because you probably have no comprehension of anything I write anyway (and I mean that in the best of ways...it's just it may be over your head...or heads, whichever is the case. Bless your hearts......).

I am sure I will enjoy watching you try to turn this around. Have fun spinning.

.....that says more about YOU than anything else *cough, cough*...I need say no more except to describe a type of sport fishing activity that is usually a relaxing pasttime to some......

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Hold up, there Missy!!!

If you could not see the idiocy in that post then I am sorry.

Those were not "valid" questions, and I responded to them in the vein I felt they were "asked".

SARCASTICALLY.

Anyone who's followed any of this knows the amount of evidence to support the hijackers' presence...I have told how it's HAD TO BE a Human moving certain cockpit controls...so WHO ELSE would fly a suicide mission???

Well i asked if they had brushed the flight stick for evidence to accuse Ziad Jarrah who is one of the accused hijackers.
To fly flight 93 he must have put his hands and fingers on some of the flight instruments.

Ziad Jarrah's American visa was found with photo and visa number largely intact in a field in Pennsylvania on 9/11.
Jarrah’s U.S. visa was recovered from the crash scene of Flight 93 and is attached in Appendix A. Of the official 911 report.

How did they actually know that Ziad Jarrah piloted flight 93?

Please enlighten me on that with some sound facts. How did they really know for sure that Ziad Jarrah flew flight 93?

Because it couldn't have been anybody else is that how you argue evidence?

I know that the CIA was monitoring Atta and Ziad Jarrah while they where in Afghanistan, Germany and Lebanon and that they were terrorist. But that is not evidence for them ever piloting any of the airlines on 911. But being passengers like the other passengers and died as victims like the other passengers. Because there is no evidence that they ever piloted any flight on that day. Its marley speculation on behalf of their background as terrorists in Lebanon. There is no evidence that they did terror acts anywhere else but in Lebanon.


PS:

Give us the names of which hijacker that piloted each flight and who sat in the pilot seat and co-pilot seat. With facts and evidence that is without any doubt that can accuse them of piloting the airliners and not being a passenger.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

What hit the Pentagon?

Why Flight 77 of course!

I've yet to see anyone post debris from a missile, or show any proof of anything else. Everyone is quick to claim it wasnt flight 77, but when asked for evidence of anything else hitting....*crickets*.

So...let's all have another investigation, that will cost taxpayers billions. Would you approve raising the price of gas $2 a gallon to fund another investigation? Maybe tax cigarettes another $1 a pack.

Where is this new investigation money going to mysteriously appear from? The Spain lottery? That inheritance from Nigeria?



[edit on 2-10-2009 by gavron]

Originally posted by gavron
What hit the Pentagon?

Why Flight 77 of course!

I've yet to see anyone post debris from a missile, or show any proof of anything else. Everyone is quick to claim it wasnt flight 77, but when asked for evidence of anything else hitting....*crickets*.

There is no proof of a missile so no missile.

There is no proof of AA77 so it must have been AA77?

So...let's all have another investigation, that will cost taxpayers billions. Would you approve raising the price of gas $2 a gallon to fund another investigation? Maybe tax cigarettes another $1 a pack.

Yup! And I smoke! Do you not mind all the tax dollars they already spent on an investigation that has been deemed by some of the investigators themselves have called inadequate? Since we already spent it, who cares right? Triple tax my smokes if that is what it takes to make sure my future grandchildren do not have to worry about the day their government will blow them out of the sky or send them to die in the desert over a lie so greedy rich people can get richer.

Where is this new investigation money going to mysteriously appear from? The Spain lottery? That inheritance from Nigeria?

[edit on 2-10-2009 by gavron]

How about the tax cuts that G.W. gave to the richest 1% of America? That would pay for a few investigations. They got those tax cuts because they were going to use all their new money to create jobs, remember? Aren't you glad you picked up that tab?

...and when that investigation reveals the same facts that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, then what? Another investigation, then another, then another?

Just because their investigation doesnt fall into the proofless conspiracy theories doesnt mean it's wrong or incomplete. Sounds like nobody will be satisvied until the govt shows the Pentagon was hit by lightning bolts ridden by unicorns with rainbows shining out their asses.

something tells me that a majority of the public would not approve of raising taxes just to satisfy the beliefs of a very small minority of people (proven by the extreme weak showing at some recent 9/11 events).

[edit on 2-10-2009 by gavron]

reply to post by spy66


Sorry, spy66 --- wrong thread.

"What hit the pentagon on 9/11/01?" is the title.

United Airlines 93 did not hit the Pentagon.

Deflection attempt noted...and the question asked is still sarcastic, it would seem...or intentionally inflammatory. SO it will be best served in its own thread, I would think.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by gavron
...and when that investigation reveals the same facts that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, then what? Another investigation, then another, then another?

Facts? Which facts? WW has already admitted there are no real facts by repeatedly dodging the question the fact that there was either NO DNA or NO ARAB MEN. Pick one and then let me know which investigation you went with.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Are you married to Lillydale? What does that have to do with whether or not I'm a pilot...because THAT were your (and funny, in the exact same words, Lillydale's) claim. WHY change the subject? Getting too hot for ya?

Let me try this one more time.

WW has lied 3 times not by directly stating that I have said things that I have not. His dishonesty is blatant and yet...he gets stars and his complete lie gets to stand.

I wonder how the mod the removed my defense explains leaving a blatant lie about another poster up on the board, let alone 3 now. I thought that was against the TOS. Apparently the mods here are just as biased as all the posters. Sides should not matter. A lie is a lie and in a place like this, they can be easily checked. Before you remove my post again, try and prove one of WW lies is true, prove me wrong, or just remove it and reveal how things really work around here.

Thats right, no DNA evidence, and this story is completely false:

www.dcmilitary.com...

Many of the casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital. The rest were killed on site, and for some, only pieces of tissue could be found.

AFIP's team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators, and support personnel worked for over two weeks in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base, Del., and for weeks at the DNA lab in Rockville, to identify the victims of the attack.

Hmm...no DNA. Guess they were all playing games on Facebook, or preading mis-information to the public.

Originally posted by gavron
Thats right, no DNA evidence, and this story is completely false:
Hmm...no DNA. Guess they were all playing games on Facebook, or preading mis-information to the public.

LOL. Are you even reading? We have had all kinds of links to articles talking about the found remains. What you would have noticed if you were paying attention is that they are all different and all contradict the coroner's report and the medical examiner.

Now, are you claiming that those two offices are the least reliable sources on what was found at the scene?

reply to post by Lillydale


So minor contradictions between reports = no DNA?

I'm not following your logic.

Thats like saying a car crashes into a crowd of people, and they cant decide it it was a buick or a ford, so there must not have been a car.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Where is your proof for whatever reason for the absence of wings you are going with today?

Huh???? Is it possible you STILL cannot understand the way that materials when subjected to very high-speed impacts will behave???

Do they teach physics in high school anymore? Are people really this out of touch with the real world, and have cartoons and fantasy Hollywood film effects replaced critical thinking and reasoning skills???

First of all, this thread is about what hit the Pentagon on 9/11 so you really have no place to tell anyone just what they can and cannot address on the subject. I am pretty sure you are being asked all of these things because they are each a question that you have dodged in one way or another. I know I have asked them of you and you have deflected.

There is so much BS in this post it smells from here. Do you still not understand that matter does not just go away?????? If the wings hit the walls but did not penetrate, they would not have just atomized. You are also repeatedly leaving out the fact that in order for the force you are trying to say was there to be there, the wings would have left at the very least, a dusting on the walls. There is not one mark where the wings impacted the wall with enough force to completely evaporate.

You have tried this one and it has been shot down. You cannot even offer a valid source for your theory.

Perhaps what you forgot from your physics class is that the wall hit the wings every bit as hard as wings hit the wall. What completely scuff proof, crack proof, mark proof material were the walls made from again?

Originally posted by gavron
reply to post by Lillydale

 

So minor contradictions between reports = no DNA?

I'm not following your logic.

Thats like saying a car crashes into a crowd of people, and they cant decide it it was a buick or a ford, so there must not have been a car.

Minor???????

OS=5 Arab men hijacked that plain.
ME=No Arab DNA found from the people on the plane.
CO=No DNA was recoverable
various other stories=the passengers were pushed through the front of the plane where all the DNA was collected, the front was the most intense part of the fire burning for days, DNA was scattered everywhere inside the impact zone, passengers were found still strapped into seats, they were able to recover at least enough tissue to do samples, entire people were recovered - one even got to the hospital.......

Minor?????????????????????

reply to post by Lillydale


Might want to recheck your sources. Hijacker DNA evidence was identified...

The only two brothers who died at the Pentagon on 9/11 were hijackers Nawaf and Salem al-Hamzi. Remains of two brothers were identified by DNA:

All discussed here back in 2008: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by gavron
reply to post by Lillydale

 

So minor contradictions between reports = no DNA?

I'm not following your logic.

Thats like saying a car crashes into a crowd of people, and they cant decide it it was a buick or a ford, so there must not have been a car.

Minor???????

OS=5 Arab men hijacked that plain.
ME=No Arab DNA found from the people on the plane.
CO=No DNA was recoverable
various other stories=the passengers were pushed through the front of the plane where all the DNA was collected, the front was the most intense part of the fire burning for days, DNA was scattered everywhere inside the impact zone, passengers were found still strapped into seats, they were able to recover at least enough tissue to do samples, entire people were recovered - one even got to the hospital.......

Minor?????????????????????

According to a witness Renee May there was 6 hijacker of flight 77. But according to the report there was 5. Who is making up the numbers FBI or witneses?

Renee May called her mother, Nancy May, in Las Vegas.[21] During the call, which lasted nearly two minutes, May said her flight was being hijacked by six individuals and they had been moved to the rear of the plane.

reply to post by Lillydale

....the the wings would have left at the very least, a dusting on the walls.

I have seen websites that discuss just this. Sorry they haven't convinced YOU. And, no...I don't keep track by jotting down every place I go when I see things about this. I suggest perhaps you haven't looked around enough, and have only stayed on sites that support your view.

There is not one mark where the wings impacted the wall with enough force to completely evaporate.

Ibid. Above.

You have tried this one and it has been shot down. You cannot even offer a valid source for your theory.

Ibid.

Perhaps what you forgot from your physics class is that the wall hit the wings every bit as hard as wings hit the wall.

Oh, I am familiar with that analogy, as a thought experiment. It is very similar to saying that when you make a standing jump, as you push against the Earth it pushes back with equal and opposite force. Old way to cloud the issue. THAT entire analogy ignores MASS. AND momentum...which brings me to.......

What completely scuff proof, crack proof, mark proof material were the walls made from again?

I wish I knew the Latin term for this sort of "argument" that you just employed there. Perhaps someone else? I'm going with argumentum absurdium as a first guess....emphasis on the "absurd" in the "argument".

AS TO "marks" or other indications of an impact?? The basis for the claims YOU like to make is solely on the few photographic depictions taken from quite a distance away. Again, I've seen OTHER websites that have examined this topic, and they were very convincing. I suggest you do some researching, again.

ONE more point: The impact occured at approximately when? 0937 - 0938? That is EDT. Just about 20 minutes later, the upper floors collapsed (I could FEEL it at my house...jsut a few miles away. NOT when the airplane hit - I was focused on the TV and NYC...but once the news broke about AAL 77, I went upstairs to see if I could see....too many trees in the way. At one point, as I was up and down stairs I was again on the 2nd floor - at just before 10 o'clock - and felt a short, sharp shake...not much. LATER I realized that was when the building's upper floors collapsed on the damaged lower sections).

My point is, MOST of the photos you seem to be using for your "analysis" are from AFTER the scene had changed from the collapse of the upper levels, AND AFTER the FF had been there....they were spraying a lot of foam, and fighting the fires....from a long way away it seems reasonable to conclude that any markings from the wings' impact would be less obvious....until inspected up close, in the later aftermath.

Sheesh, I'd think that things like this would be obvious to normal intelligent adults.