Was Nicholas Berg Executed by the CIA?

Originally posted by aware
First, how do you know its a 'kutra'? You can be so certain that you state it as fact?

It certainly appears more like a prison outfit than a 'kutra'.

Second of all those plastic chair are cheap and easily available at any wal-mart, problem is THEY DONT HAVE WAL-MART in Iraq.

Perhaps not, but they do order things from all around the world, via the Internet. Simply put, the occurence of the plastic chair is definitely too common to be considered evidence.

Sorry, forgot to say, the answer to the question that started this thread is YES, the CIA in cahoots with MOSSAD executed this man to manipulate public opinion.

I would like to know for a fact that this is true, but aside from coincidence (synchronicity?) thus far, we have no absolute proof.

For any/all of our resident photoshop doodleboys, have any of you taken a good look at the video? I have, I downloaded it through P2P (Kazaa; searched for "beheaded" in video and it came right up), and I distinctly remember looking at Berg as he sat on the floor and thought to myself that his head did appear, in some way, doctored.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by tututkamen
Two things are for certain, chairs and videos are not important, actually irrelevant. The perception of the possibilty of the act for intent is all that is relavant. Motive and Gain should be examined. Terrorists 0 gain
America 10 world wide points

Tut

This is a common logical fallacy in conspiracy thinking. The idea is that every consequence of every action is foreseeable, and thus intended. The truth is in the real world much of what happens is governed by the law of unintended consequences, and not everybody thinks through their actions.

Looking at who benefits from any given action is a useful guide to aid in the looking for alternative explanations or hidden forces in play, but it is not itself proof.

as seekeroff pointed out, does the army issue silk orange suits to prisoners?

Kurta
do a search on kurta if you want pictures, there are different styles of kurta, Berg is wearing simple one, probably made in orange specifically for him.

as for plastic chairs in iraq
this is quoted from someone's blog who lives in Iraq
the date is 4/4/2004 in her blog
riverbendblog.blogspot.com...
The weather is quite nice lately (with the exception of dust every once in a while). We spend the electricity-less evenings out in the little garden. We pull out plastic chairs and a little plastic table and sit around gazing at the sky, which is marvelously clear on many nights.

so yes plastic chairs are widely available in Iraq.

another reference to plastic chairs used by Iraqis
www.washingtonpost.com...
That was the justification cited by Hussein Tawil, a spokesman for Sadr's office in Diwaniyah, who wore a pistol slung around his chest. Two Kalashnikov rifles sat in the corner of his cramped office, which was lined with four plastic chairs and a wooden stool.





[Edited on 5-14-2004 by worldwatcher]

Originally posted by aware
Second of all those plastic chair are cheap and easily available at any wal-mart, problem is THEY DONT HAVE WAL-MART in Iraq.
Show me just one picture of your average Iraqi sitting in this common plastic chair.

I think the chairs are currious and worth looking at, but the lack of wal-marts in Iraq doesn't mean that goods sold by Wal-Mart are not available there and sold by another vender.

Are the chairs in the prison photos likely to have been brought in by the US military, or are they likely to have been chairs already available in Iraq? The US didn't build that prison, presumably there was furniture there when we found it.

and another
www.khilafah.com...
BAGHDAD At a coffee shop on Karada Street here just before 8 p.m., eight men sat on plastic chairs around a crudely hewn wood coffee table or alongside welded metal stands just big enough for a tea glass. They sat cross-legged, prayer beads in hand, their eyes glued to the television on a sidewalk table, waiting for the U.S. president to speak to them about the abuses of Iraqi prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison.

or maybe this guy sold them the plastic chair????
www.boston.com...
Ishmail Hasan loaded his motorcycle and sidecar with plastic chairs, cooking pots, car batteries and a plastic foam cooler.
"I'm keeping some and selling the rest," he said. "Thank you, Saddam



[Edited on 5-14-2004 by worldwatcher]

I ran a search on kurta and found this definition:

en.wikipedia.org...

"A kurta is a traditional piece of clothing in India, a long shirt which usually comes down till the knees. It is worn along with a pyjama which matches, or complements, the kurta in style, color, pattern, material, or other such features of the cloth. "

You can go here to see a variety of colored kurtas.

For those of you that have viewed the tape, did the shirt appear to come down to his knees? According to the definition and a few pictures I briefly looked through, the kurta usually goes down to the knees. That may settle the 'orange uniform' bit.

Originally posted by Bangin
For those of you that have viewed the tape, did the shirt appear to come down to his knees? According to the definition and a few pictures I briefly looked through, the kurta usually goes down to the knees. That may settle the 'orange uniform' bit.

It certainly did not appear that way. I have seen quite a few friends of mine in county greens, and they looked exactly like the orange clothes Berg was wearing in the video (save the color, of course).





There are stark contrasts between the two outfits. Wearing a kutra, the shirt buttons down much further than the shirt Berg is wearing, not to mention most kutra's are stitched with some manor of decoration along the buttons-- there certainly don't appear to be any buttons on Berg's shirt, nor does his shirt come down anywhere near as far as a kutra would.

For those of you who would like to view the video (if you don't have some interest in researching the video or watching it for something to that effect, my suggestion is that you save yourself the stress of watching it), it can be found here --also at that site is the Daniel Pearl execution (just as graphic).

I'm also curious as to how the CIA can determine that the man reading the note in the video (who ultimately beheaded Nick Berg) could be the head of Al Qaeda in Iraq (I forget his name).

[Edited on 2004514 by Cappa]

Cappa....those "county greens" you have seen your friends wear, when photographed, reflect light, say like a silk-type fabric would?
Take a look at this photo analysis by John Nada, with the frame breakdown and you will see what I am saying:
Analysis of the Al Qaeda Beheading Video of Nick Berg

I would swear on my grandfather's grave that Berg is not wearing a traditional US/Coalition/Iraqi/Gitmo brand prisoner "jumpsuit" and that he is wearing something that is more along the lines of having silk-type properties and characteristics.



seekerof

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Seekerof]

I personally don't think the CIA had Burg killed. But it's possible. What would they have to gain? I am more inclined to think the hooded men were foreign or US mercenaries. If this killing of Burg was susposed to manipulate or to draw attention away from the prison scandal.... seems like it worked.

cia agents could have advised (strongly) berg to leave irak... but they could not force him !
he had all documents to stay there it seems...

in my opinion berg was handed over to the killers by some corrupted irak policeman/men whom work for the killers but behave as if they serving for the pro american side.

the killers completly had set up a complete anti-american backgroundscene for the decapitation video
too.

Originally posted by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE
cia agents could have advised (strongly) berg to leave irak... but they could not force him !
he had all documents to stay there it seems...

He wanted to leave. He just didn't want to leave through Baghdad:

"April 9 2004
He contacts his parents and says he will try to come home by way of Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait.
USA today

April 10 2004
A State Department spokeswoman said a U.S. consular official in Iraq spoke with Berg on April 10 and offered to "assist him in departing Iraq by plane" for Jordan. She said Berg declined and said he planned to travel overland to Kuwait.
Seattle Times"

Nick Berg Timeline

BTW, I updated the topic.
I found on a web site that the director of the Oklahoma University that Berg attended, is the mentor of George Tenet, the director of the CIA.
I don't know how important that is though.

fyi a kurta can be made in various styles, with buttons, without buttons, long to the knees or just over the hips, they can be simple or extremely elaborate. with decorations and without. I have seen them with different neckline styles.. and being that I own several kurta shirts that I wear with jeans, I can vouch for the various styles.

again i stick to theory that this orange kurta was made especially for Nick, they had the time, to make a point in regards to the prisoner situation in Abu Ghraib. (It only takes a few hours to make a kurta.)

Originally posted by worldwatcher
again i stick to theory that this orange kurta was made especially for Nick

It may be a kurta but I doubt they made it especially for Nick.

As many of you have pointed out it's difficult to see details in the video (I haven't viewed it), so we can't really determine what he's wearing...ie. length, material...etc.

Just looked again and this particular site says a kurta is of knee length or longer. They say a 'kurti' has similar features of a kurta, but a kurti is much shorter. Maybe that explains the confusion.

www.fashionindia.net...

Originally posted by worldwatcher

again i stick to theory that this orange kurta was made especially for Nick, they had the time, to make a point in regards to the prisoner situation in Abu Ghraib. (It only takes a few hours to make a kurta.)

WW, its simply absurd to suggest that these 'radical islamist terrorists' spent a couple of hours to knit Nick Berg a Kutra.
I guess it fits right in with the '2 cameramen with a video edit machine' theory i read posted on another thread.
These 'terrorists' had all kinds of fancy equipment, including edit machines, israeli rifles, AND a sewing machine, not to mention some orange material and a seamstress to put a kutra together.

I agree, it MAY be a kutra (tho i doubt it) but to suggest that it was made for Nick by his captors seems absurd.

absurd to you maybe but

know this, a kurta is not knitted. Any person can pay a tailor to quickly make this garment in that part of the world, all they have to do is choose the color and give the height, the tailor just makes it, hence the various differences in kurta styles.

All who question this orange suit, please carefully look at a US issued orange prisoner suit. The fabric does not match.

get you more later
www.postcardsfromprison.com...
www.postcardsfromprison.com...

as for the 2 camera edit theory, no one said the terrorist edited the video themselves, the theory suggests that whomever received the videos and placed them on the website was the ones to do the actual editting from perhaps 2 separate tapes.

these are all theories just as the CIA beheaded Berg theory, but as we search for the truth, certain factors can be ruled out as being too inconclusive to be used any of the different conspiracies being created. The orange jumpsuit/orange kurta should be one argument at least that no one should base their claim on.

others are still very much in the air. like the identity and existence of the man named Al-Zarqawi.

and the possible pakistan insurgent connection that i have yet to throw out there in the mix.


[Edited on 5-15-2004 by worldwatcher]

There is something I heard about Berg in flight school with a 9/11 suspect.....why would he still be wearing orange jumpsuit if he wasn't lych mobbed, broke out, or let out........or possibly "in transit" somewhere else....maybe he knew something???? but, he wasn't there just by chance.....

I can see it now.....terrorists capture Nick and decide to execute him for the abuse of Iraqis in Abu G.
But wait, one of the terrorists suggests that Nick be stripped naked and a leash put around his neck, just like the Iraqi prisoners, but that idea is quickly tossed out as the terrorists decide an orange 'kutra' would better fit their message, so material is found, measurements taken, and a kutra is made.
I dont see what was wrong with the stripping him naked idea, as most of the abuse pictures are of naked Iraqis, but these terrorist with their sewing machine must have decided that nudity would be inappropriate for a public execution.

So when, if ever, have terrorist dressed their captives?

can you people just open your eyes and compare the pictures. There are major differences from the USA issued one piece jumpsuit compared to the orange kurta Berg is wearing. OPEN YOUR EYES, USE THE LINKS, COMPARE!!!!!!!!!!

no one is saying there isn't a conspiracy of some sort here....but this jumpsuit thing is just ridiculous...look for yourself, you can clearly see they are not the same, not even the same color. GET OVER THIS PART OF THE CONSPIRACY AND MOVE ON TO A MORE MEANINGFUL PART, like the time edits, the reason for the hoods, the fact that Al-Zarqawi is probably dead. The CIA could still be involved, but this orange jumpsuit has no basis for claiming conspiracy.

i'm done trying to deny ignorance about the clothing, i'll allow the blind to remain blinded.

Originally posted by Soapman
There is something I heard about Berg in flight school with a 9/11 suspect.....why would he still be wearing orange jumpsuit if he wasn't lych mobbed, broke out, or let out........or possibly "in transit" somewhere else....maybe he knew something???? but, he wasn't there just by chance.....

If he had been released they would have given him his clothes back, but since he was never in custody (according to mainstream news) the only possible answer is that his captors dressed him.

Or he WAS in custody and had the orange outfit issued to him, which his parents say he was in custody, they have emails from him stating this, and i believe one of the emails is from the CPA.

So the question becomes, was Nick lieing about being in custody, or is the gov lieing by saying he wasnt in custody.

I didnt personally know Nick, but i have no reason at all to think he would have lied.
On the other hand, i have plenty of reason to mistrust a source of information that has consistantly lied to me, and changes their story on a whim.

You are ready to accuse the CIA of killing this guy because of a generic white plastic chair ? I see it was mentioned you can get it at wal-mart..not only there though.. you can get it at the dollar store.. the big-lots.. where ever. It is a basic generic white chair that probably everyone that has posted here has seen at some time in someones back yard.
How quick so many are to accuse the US of such horrible things.. yet can't stand the idea that those who actually do these horrible things get punished.
There are those who want to blame the president.. either Bush or Clinton for 9/11.. when it was the terrorist that actually did it..
Now you want to blame the US for this guy when it was the terrorist whoactually did it..
I bet you are the ones who want to blame McDonalds for that extra weight you have put on when it was actually you who fed the food to yourselves.
Stop turning your heads from the truth. Those who pull the triggers, those who flew those planes, those who had that sword/knife.. and anyone who supp[ortsd their actions, they are the ones to blame, and they are the ones who need to be punished. Stop trying to protect them.