Raped In America; What Was The Cost Last Time You Saw A Dr? Working Thread For World Health Costs.

I went to a local hospital, Evergreen Hospital and Clinic, Kirkland, Washington, several weeks ago for a 2-view chest x-ray. It was not covered by insurance. At the patient check-in desk, the intake person said it costs about $457. I told her I will be paying out-of-pocket and it is not covered by insurance. She phoned someone in their billing/collection department. Then she said after a discount the price is $307.29. I paid that in cash. Had the x-ray. Later I received a bill for the difference of about $150. I have since learned that the very same service is available from other local providers for between $70 to $90. One of the fundamental problems is that health care delivery and insurance is a "for profit" business. In other words, too many people other than those who perform the actual service are taking the lion's share of what you are charged. Also, you have the privilege of paying extra for having the service performed in shiny new hospitals with tall ceilings in every room. The last place you want to go for medical services is a private hospital unless you enjoy being financially raped.

[edit on 9/7/2009 by dubiousone]

This snake bite cost $140,000.00 US



My brother was badly burnt and spent a month in a burn center in Lincoln Nebraska. He owes nearly $600,000.000 US and no one would even talk to him about follow-up care (rehab) because he was uninsured. He got no rehab outside of that performed in the burn center, and can barely open his left hand still to this day.



[edit on 7-9-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

There is a man who I know who is an Xray technician at a local Hospital. I have spoken to him at length about his opinion of what he sees as an issue.

One such issue is bloated procedures.

He tells me that doctors run all kinds or tests and procedures that are very expensive and unneeded but are part of the hospital program.

He calls this functionalism. No one dares to call out the exorbitant procedures. After all, they have staff to pay, and they are a for profit firm.

Add to excessive procedures, bloated price tags. Bloated price tags, to a caged customer who knows nothing about the technical details of what needs to be done, or its cost. What the customer does know, is they want to live, and the hospital knows they will pay any cost to do so.

The compassion in this thread is great, and I think we can all agree we need to find a solution. But it is this functionalism with a do not disturb sign on it that appears to be the culprit.

The process of lowering costs, would be a cutting of personnel and wages, and a review of administrative costs and procedures that would kill many health care related firms. To determine that which is a fare service at a fare cost takes the capital out of capitalism in the minds of some.

Lets face it, America has found an industry, that like oil, we cannot do without. From medicine to procedures. They charge anything they want....merely because they can.

Why do we need a public option for health care? Because, its the right thing to do.

Peace


[edit on 7-9-2009 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

I'd really like to hear your health care stories and the costs associated with them.

I'd like to consider myself an average, personally responsible American, but I can't understand a lot of the health care concerns that are out there right now.

I just had $125,000 worth of work done a few years ago and only paid $2,300 out of pocket. I got EXCELLENT care and am 100% now. No complaints (except for the helicopter transport, was a real rough ride but they had no choice).

But, then again I am a responsible person. I paid attention in school, got good grades, went on to earn a great living and I make no apologies for my personal responsibility. I don't feel the "guilt" that underachievers constantly try to make people like me feel. I earn what I get, and worked for everything I got (my health-care included).

My insurance premiums are VERY affordable for me, and I have never had a problem with my insurance company being the "inhuman monsters" that the underachievers constantly label them as. I think the main problem is most people don't even read their insurance policies, and if they do maybe are a little too ignorant to understand them. So when something happens, they are not prepared for it and blame the insurance company for their own ignorance. It is a problem with America, too many ignorant underachievers want everything boiled down to their intelligence level. Sad, really.

Lack of personal responsibility and blatant ignorance is the true downfall of America, heck this very thread is a good example of that in a few spots. And let's face it, there are segments of our population where over 70% of the births are to unwed mothers under the age of 18. I don't think we should have to overhaul the excellent health care system we have available to the majority of all Americans in order to have politician's by the votes of the poor and ignorant people that they use to keep in office.

When will certain communities that live of the government finally realize that after years of getting bussed to the pools to keep their "masters" in power they have not improved their situation one bit. That is proof that you can't depend on the government to be the crutch for your personal irresponsibility.


[edit on 7-9-2009 by IgnoreTheFacts]

UK Here.

My experiences.

Had some wisdom teeth pulled, NHS dentist. The dentist I had is both NHS/Private, while I was there he had some rich guys in who play for a large soccer club, he's known as a damn good dentist. I didn't have to wait long at all (a few days) for the treatment, even though I wasn't signed up with him already. My total cost was £40 (I think that's something like $60-$80USD), that's because I had a job, if I was unemployed or poor it would be free.

Have a couple of illnesses that involved x-rays, scans, blood tests, etc. I only had to wait a few days for the scans, and blood tests were same day. Those cost nothing. My treatments involved morphine at first for one, then later milder pain killers and anti-spasmodics. For these prescriptions I never had to pay more than about £7 a fortnight (about $10-$14USD), no matter if I was getting multiple types of drug. If i was unemployed or poor it would be free. I'm told the anti-spasmodics alone cost around £1500 for a couple of weeks worth on the open market.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


While your story is admirable, not everyone enjoys the luxuries that you do.
Not all have sound mind or education. Horrific child hoods and poor choices by the parents,themselves, employers or law makers. Loss of Jobs, or entrepreneurial undertakings that go south. Financial crisis, natural disasters.

We need to look beyond the " I got mine " and " I made my own " mentality.
There are those that made their own and created oppression. There are others who got theirs on the backs, sweat and tears of others.

Not every wage earner can afford the health care with ease, and not every person makes the best choices in life. When we spend 1/2 the worlds money on weaponry while we have Americans without health care and were the only industrialized nation without it, I say we can do better.

When one American does not reach out with their hand and their way to others in need, are we living a hypocrisy when we say United We Stand, Divided we fall? Or is that a prophesy.

Peace

reply to post by HIFIGUY

When one American does not reach out with their hand and their way to others in need, are we living a hypocrisy when we say United We Stand, Divided we fall?

I don't need the government telling me how to help people, thank you. I donate gobs of money and time helping my neighbors. None of my employees have to worry about poor pay, poor working conditions or lack of affordable insurance.

And I don't mind TEMPORARY help for those in need (other than disabled folks either mental or physical), including health care. But it would never end up that way.

Your way of thinking will make slaves of us all, and bring down the combined level of living where we all have something I hear called "shared misery" and "trickle up poverty".

When I did have my surgeries (varied) I had full coverage Aetna insurance - fully paid for by the company I worked for.

Obviously -- that was many many years ago.

Now I am 62 - and have not seen a doctor in 12 years. I have only major medical through my husband's company with a $2000 deductible - - costing in excess of $400 a month.

The only reason I have this insurance - is so if I have a heart attack or stroke - - I won't lose the house.

Totally ridiculous.

I live on the Mexican border. I go to Mexico for dental and meds.

Last time I had an x-ray - it was $5

A route canal plus crown was $200

I've actually had to have work done here in the States redone.

Many people fighting health care reform here in America do not realize that there are now more than 50 million people in this country with little or no health care coverage.

If you lose your job you are really up a creek and if you are old or young forget it.

One good medical issue, just one and that house you have worked for 26 years for, paid every month on and save for can be ripped out from right under you.

But, we Americans gladly and quietly bail out the big banks. go figure.

My husband had major surgery, the bill came to over $40,000. we ended up paying about $300.

Why? because both my husband and I were lucky enough to have jobs and good medical coverage.

Read my other posts.

Everyone EVERYONE deserves to have good medical care.

America is the only industrialized country to not have universal health care and people particularly here on ATS are fighting us getting universal health care tooth and nails.

Fact: I have a girlfriend that worked for Pfizer Pharmaceuticals as a sales rep. Single woman. Judi was able to buy her own house in "The Canyon" outside Hollywood California. The cost? a mere 3.5 million and this was 15 years ago.

I've said in all my posts and been shot down time and time and time again or ignored that you all are getting ripped off royally and continue to kiss the corporations & washington politician's hands that are strangling you.

People either don't care because they feel they are safe and "it doesn't concern me" or they really don't know how things could be and how at the moment unequal it is.

I've seen a young man lay outside surgery room doors waiting to be transferred to county die from internal bleeding.

I've had a girlfriend that made so much money selling drugs to doctors and hospitals at such outlandish prices that she could afford a house only some of us dream of

I've had a niece that lived in France for four years (going back) and said she was sick, her boyfriend called the doctor (they both speak fluent French). She was sick on a Sunday night, the doctor came, checked her over gave her a prescription and it costs just a few dollars.

Another friend and her husband are retiring to Spain because they want good medical care in their old age.

I work indirectly for a company that deals with healthcare agencies and I can tell you the cost is jacked up mega bucks because the pigs at the trough are hungry mothers.

Here in America our corporations and politicians are tight bedfellows and the medical corporations are shelling out big bucks lobbying in Washington and wining and dining our politicians and hoping the average American is not informed enough to demand and support good universal healthcare.

From: Hostile Takeover by David Sirota:

In 2004 Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R) was asked whether America could afford to provide health care to all its citizens. Since he was the first surgeon to head the Senate, some were hoping Frist would address the situation optimistically. Instead, he said, "it is impossible to get everybody covered," citing the fact that his home state of TN was supposedly "going bankrupt" trying to achieve universal coverage. The mind reels at how somone like Frist could claim the government does not have enough money to deal with health care. His comment, after all, came just a few years removed from his family being forced to pay $1.7 billion (how much money does this sucker have?:puz

in criminal and civil fines for trying to rip off Medicare while running the nation's largest for profit hospital chain HCA. Evidently, the Frists believe that there is plenty of health care money lying around to be stolen by well-heeled con artists. But when it comes to health care money for covering ordinary people, well that's a different story.

The issue came up again in the 2004 presidential debate when Bush attacked Sen. John Kerry's (D) universal health care proposal. Kerry "wants everybody to be able to buy nito the same plan that senators and congressmen get (read my public profile thread nobody cared enough about to star, flag and comment on - see what our politicians get at retirement and we pay for it).

Wake up, socialism is not a bad word. If your house is burning you call the fire department no charge it is paid through your taxes.

If you house is being robbed you call the police and they come to the rescue.

If you want to read a good book but can't afford it you go to the library and borrow it.

Wake up folks it doesn't have to be like this - if you are against healthcare reform and keep voting it down, my husband and I too will retire with Teddy and Lisa to Spain. America is a corrupt nation full of sheep. Get mad, mad enough to demand a change. WE THE PEOPLE possibly now have a president that isn't as corrupt as the last nimrod that stole office.

It's time for a change.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/665e343793b9.gif[/atsimg]

Originally posted by JayinAR
But I think it may miss one aspect in the equation. How much money do these countries pay in taxes. Here in the states we pay approx. 40% of our money back to the Gov when you factor the taxes you pay every day.

This is for Denmark, which has a public healthcare system

Taxes:
1)average regional tax of about 33 percent
2)Work tax 8 percent (only paid by people with jobs)
3)Healthcare tax 8 percent(to pay for regional health expenses)
4)low tax 5 percent(on all personal income)
5)High tax 21 percent(on all personal income over US$67000)

There is a tax ceiling of 59 percent so that 1+2+4+5 cannot be more than 59 percent of personal income.

Deductions:
6)personal deduction for everyone over age 18 US$8000
7)work deduction(for everyone who has a job) US$2600
8)Transport deduction(less than 60 miles to+from work) US$0.6 per mile
9)Transport deduction(more than 60 miles to+from work) US$0.3 per mile
10) union dues + unemployment insurance deduction

Benefits:
11) baby benefit(children 0-2) US$3,165
12) small children benefit(children 3-6) US$2,505
13) children benefit(children 7-17) US$1,971

Add to that a 25% VAT on all goods and a 180% tax on all motorvehicles.

A single working stiff without children making US$50000 would take home roughly US$32000-US$35000 per year after taxes.

5 weeks paid vacation is mandatory+ 1 optional week.

Will that rise?
I'm not so sure that the National Program would ease enough tension on the overall economy to make it so that Joe Neighbor is now going to be able to save money because viola, he now doesn't have to pay as much for milk.

Currently about half the US federal budget goes to pay for expenses incurred on previous, current and future wars and upkeep of the empire. At some point the US will have to decide on healthcare or military.

I pay $15 to see a doctor.

In Denmark you don't pay to see a doctor.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by aaa2500]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


You sure have been posting quite a few threads about "healthcare", among some other members...

But i guess some of the member who have posted responses, and you, think that the Obama healthcare reform will be any better?...

We recently learned that President Obama has secretly made a sweetheart deal with Billy Tauzin, the former congressman turned chief lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry. In return for $80 billion in projected cuts -- and $150 million in supportive television ads Obama has apparently sworn to protect the industry from congressional efforts to, among other things, let the government use its bargaining power to lower prescription drug costs.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

But hey, Let's keep up the propaganda of healthcare reform being good for the PEOPLE......




[edit on 7-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I'll give one example of not having health insurance. At the time of this incident we had a restaurant/self-employed and didn't/don't have health care. My wife had back/hip pain for a few days. It escalated to the point that she couldn't get out of bed. So, I took her to the emergency room. Long story short; after several test & a few drugs she was sent home with noe explination of what was wrong. The pain went away after a few more days. The Bill: $6,000 That's about 2k/hr for nothing more than a little Morphine...

We take full responsibility for our financial situation. Not finishing college, Hurricane Katrina, and our failed restaurant are just a few of the mistakes that have put us in this catagory: American's that don't make enough to pay the bills. But, when the bills keep going up & wages keep going down how do we get out of this hole. It's the old 'one step foward, two steps back'.

We had the kids on state run health care until we moved to California. We now have to get them on California's plan. My oldest daughter has braces that need to come off, but we can't afford the procedure. The dentist in California said te Dentist in Mississippi ripped us off for thousands, but that's another story...

my wife & I both need check-ups. we keep putting it off; hoping to beable to afford the luxury of a doctors visit somehow, someday.

I just got finished paying off a $1500 judgment against me from a hospital I sought treatment at after I got in an accident and broke my nose on my steering wheel.

Originally, the bill was $600. I went in, a nurse looked at my nose, told me it was broken (DUH!) gave me a referral to a nose doc and a tetanus shot. That's it, that's all.

I was 19 at the time and could barely pay rent let alone a $600 medical bill.

Another story...

My sister does have insurance but my niece has to go in twice a year to have her prosthetic eye adjusted after having her eye removed from retinoblastoma (the eye literally turns to cancer). The cost of the procedure to give her anesthesia (because she's only 3 and screams bloody murder if you try to do anything with the eye) take the eye out build on it more with acrylic so it will fit in her growing eye socket better costs $2,500. They won't do the procedure, even thought my sis has insurance, unless she pays $500 up front.

If my sis can't come up with the money (she makes only $1000/month at her job but stays because the hours work for day care and the medical insurance) my nieces eye socket will shrink in size thereby pushing out the prosthetic.

WELL I HAD been going bto same doctor for years cost of visit was 15 bucks co pay he merged with several other doctor's my copay went to 40 bucks a visit because some of the guys he merged with where specialist that was thye excuse they used even through he was generalist he vsent me to one of the doctors he merged with for a cat scan not an mri i got a 4000 dollar bill from my insurance saying they paid1000 but the other 4000 i had to pay i told thye doctors to go to hell that they got what they got from insurance 5000 grand for a head scan in a catscan machine that is 15 years old is bullfodder and i aint going to pay it. my insurance is supposed to pay 90 percent of any bill if i go to one of there doctors which i did they approved it before i even went to catscanners office

Originally posted by Alaskan Man
i am about 10G in debt from an abscess tooth (hemorrhage) over the summer.


blows...

i think my mum had the same thing a few years ago. being dental work it may have cost 15 pounds or something, but it might have been free, i forget

nhs.

I live in Arkansas. Memorial Day weekend of this year my child was very sick. I knew it was an earache, but with his fever and pain so high I decided to take him to the emergency room. It was the first time we had taken him there. They told me there was a 75.00 charge and the rest would be billed to us because we don't have any insurance. We sat in the waiting room about an hour, they called us back and we sat in a patient room about an hour. When the doctor came in he asked what was wrong. I told him my son had a bad earache and needed some antibiotics. He looked in his ear and said your'e right-I'm gonna give him some antibiotics. After two and a half hours I got the prescription for the antibiotics. And about 2 weeks later I got the rest of the bill...650 dollars! For the doctor to look in my kids ear and say your'e right its an earache it cost me 725.00 and all i wanted was antibiotics.

Son got a 105 fever 12/23. Was out of state visiting relatives, got pre-approval from doctor to go to ER. Insurance decided not to cover it. A chest x-ray and some lab tests...1500. STill didn't find the problem. Fever kept coming back. Few weeks later found a large red lump on his little..um. exit. (basically a demonized hemoroid)
had to go to the ER per pediatrician. Found an abcess the size of the doctors thumb. When it makes the ER doctor flinch and shake his head, it is bad. Had to go back to another ER the next morning for emergency surgery. Outpatient. son was fine in a day. Insurance only covers 80 percent. Shelled out another 2 grand. All for a little abcess. That is apparently quite a common problem for babes.

Edited to add:

BTW, for the past three years our health insurance alone costs 9k a year. With out of pocket expenses: 13-15k a year.

And no, we couldn't get it cheaper because we both have "pre-existing" conditions.



[edit on 7-9-2009 by nixie_nox]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Don't you think a system that allows EVERYONE to access health care, without worrying over losing their shirts would be better?

Is it fair that an insurance company can tell a Doctor what treatment they should give you, even though the Doctor disagrees with their order?

You speak about Propaganda, yet isn't what you said the same thing?

It's ok saying we heard, or we think, or we know, where are the facts?

See what nobody seems to spread around is, all the payments deducted from peoples wage, will stop, and then a tax taken to cover everyone, I very much doubt that the tax taken will be anything near what would be and is deducted from the weekly wage, therefore making people much better off, allowing them to spend more, and taking the need to suck up to their employer in case they lose their job, because they need their health insurance.

To me it seems that the US health system needs a kick up the arse, and those making billions from peoples illness should see what it's like to lose instead, why not try it and see instead of spreading what you accuse everyone else of doing?

Many years ago I lived in England. When I was in US I had a very bad back that would put me down 7 days at a time. My parents thought I Was faking it.
Anyway, when in England , it went out, and the doctor did some simple tests with his hands and determined it to be a slipped disk. He game me some pills and two hours later I was out dancing! Turns out the medication was not approved in the US , and when I went back, it was living hell again.

Now, that doctor visit was 100 pounds which was 200 american dollars then. I did not get it free because I was from America. This was in 1988.