Raped In America; What Was The Cost Last Time You Saw A Dr? Working Thread For World Health Costs.

reply to post by mental modulator


If i may, a British liberal, is someone who believes in the freedom to lead your own life, but this also includes the freedom to be poor. Our lib-dem party has slightly confused this issue by being a proponent of taxing the rich to pay for the poor. I am not against this stance, but it is not authentic 'liberalism' in the classic sense.

A socialist, as opposed to a Tory, actively supports nationalisation of the energy companies, the post office and the banks. Liberalism is a free-market ethos, as opposed to this. Nationalisation is not supported to such an extent. A socialist supports healthcare for all, irrespective of wealth, and the taxing of the top earners to pay for the people who 'have not'.

In essence, a 'liberal' in British politics is someone who believes in freedom (and liberty), a live and let live type of policy. It is not really an indicator of a socio-economic stance. Liberals can be on both sides of the left/right divide.

A 'liberal' is not a proponent of wealth re-distribution per se, that is a socialist policy, not a liberal one.

Of course, you musn't confuse 'one who is liberal', with a supporter of the Liberal Democrats

It is also interesting to note that our Conservative party is probably to the left of your Democratic party, even though they are regarded as centre-right in Britain.

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
When's the last time you've been to the emergency room? What was done and how much was the cost?

The last time I went to an emergency room (here in Portugal) was around 2 years ago - I had broken 2 fingers. I was appointed a doctor, got an x-ray after which I got a cast on my hand (sp?) a prescription for painkillers should I feel any pain in the following days. It cost me around 14 euros. Later on I went back to remove the cast, was again appointed a doctor and then it cost nothing.

reply to post by CRB86


thanks for that, a very good description. I'm definitley a Socialist and not a liberal although i would say my attitudes to legalising drugs are liberal. All a bit confusing

I know the US government has considered the Australian public health system as an option on several occasions but every option has its problems. In the Oz example, the scheme is funded by a levy which is 1.5% of taxable annual income added to your payable tax at the annual assessment in July. The levy is means tested so that the lowest income earners are exempt at the bottom end of a sliding scale. High income earners are penalised with an increased levy if they don't have full private cover for hospital expenses.

The concept of increased taxation is the hardest pill to swallow for US residents, especially those with very high incomes.

The public health system is essentially free eg. you could be hospitalised with a life threatening problem for virtually any length of time and not pay any hospital costs. Most medications are government subsidised which doesn't make them free, just considerably less out of pocket costs but there are some notable exceptions like some specialised drugs for rare diseases which haven't been covered as yet and those are hideously expensive for those unfortunate enough to need them.

Where private insurance comes into its own (I have always had full private cover) is for what's called 'elective' surgery which is basically anything non-life threatening. On the public system there are huge waiting lists for such surgery, things like hernias, arthroscopy for arthritic conditions etc. With private cover I can see the local doc who 'bulkbills', meaning he only charges what the health system rebate is for consultations which means I only need to swipe my health card when I see him. He gives me a referal to a specialist and I get into a private hospital and fixed up ASAP, like in days usually. Without private cover I'd get the same standard of care but might wait my turn for anything up to years to get the necessary surgery.

My private cover allows me to go to the private hospital emergency dept and I all I need pay is a small excess fee and ANY length of hospitalisiation is fully paid for, including all expenses incurred while an in-patient (doctors, surgeons, anaesthetists, theatre fees, medication. bed fees etc etc). It's something you hope you don't ever need but you're thankful you have it when it's needed.

Cosmetic type surgery is definitely not covered by either the public or private system and for that, you pay the big bucks which is why a lot of Oz patients take their chances getting it done cheaper in places like Thailand these days (breast implants, nose jobs for example).

Oz tourists travelling to certain places (the US in particular) are heavily advised to take out fully comprehensive traveller's health insurance against the chance of suffering a serious injury/illness while over there. We've heard many horror stories of the cost of treatment for let's say, a serious accidental fracture in the US virtually sending families bankrupt like having to sell the family home to pay the bill and get the patient back home again.

The US health system is in desperate need of reform and it's not going to be cheap but it should be a lot fairer for all citizens regardless of income. Basically those at the top of the income pyramid need to be helping those lower down but that doesn't exactly fit the concept of totally free enterprise and low taxation. It wouldn't hurt for your medicos to take a serious pay cut also and that will never get a popular vote.

[edit on 7/9/2009 by Pilgrum]

Thank you all for your posts!
It is interesting and insightfull to hear from other country's citizens.
I feel this is one of the most important threads on here!
Brilliant work Sancho!
If we dont bring this out in the open it will continue to fester!
Instead of listening to fear mongering we should be listening to how it could work and asking why it doesnt currently and how we can make it work.
Realize there are billions being poured into maintaining the status quo.
We should have a right to affordable health care.
People are afraid of taxes being raised or paying more somehow.
Who can blame them after seeing what they do with our tax money!
It benefits society in the long run to have healthy citizens!

Japan reporting in:

My last trip to the ER -

6 x-rays, 1 MRI, consultation/examinations with 2 doctors (1 specialist). Took about 4 hours in total, give or take.

Including medication and a clerical fee (because I'd lost my hospital card) it set me back a little under $100 US. Oddly, the card replacement cost more than my medication, but less than my parking costs (not included in the total).

Subsequent visits to the hospital walk-in for checkups have cost me ¥210. That's about $2.

I'm not actually sure how much I have deducted per month. It's not a large enough sum to really remark on. Maybe $70/month or so.

All in all, no complaints. An English speaking doctor would be nice, but it's not too likely out here in the boonies. I'm used to care in Canada (where I grew up) - and I actually prefer the Japanese system. Yes, I pay out of pocket per visit - but the wait times are shorter (same day MRI? not in Canada unless your life is in danger) and the staff are just incredible here. Beyond nice.

reply to post by Republican08
Very sorry to hear about the loss of your father. I lost my father, suddenly, in 2001. He was just 48 years young. He was admitted to our local hospital with multiple symptoms, including a headache and nausea. The physician ordered a CAT scan, but then cancelled the order after he decided my father's issue was simply the result of elevated blood sugar (he was diabetic). Later on the following evening, he began acting delirious and talking as if he was on a submarine in the Pacific during WWII. He proceeded to fall out of his bed. At that point, they decided to give him the CAT scan that he should have been given initially. While he was on the table awaiting the CAT scan, he coded. They were able to revive him but he needed to be put on a ventilator and he fell into a coma. They performed the scan and it turned out he had a large amount of bleeding in his brain all along. The following day, with no hope for recovery, we terminated his life support as that was always his wish.

The hospital and the doctors involved proceeded to lie and give conflicting reports about what had actually happened. They even denied that he had complained of a headache, despite the fact that myself and others were present when he told the doctor as much. The autopsy report even declared that he had presented himself in the emergency room with complaints of a headache and numerous symptoms. Bottom line, they should have done the CAT scan in the beginning. There is little doubt that the bleeding could have been reversed and that he would still be alive today.

To add insult to injury, after his death the hospital actually had the nerve to send us a bill for several thousand dollars for his ER visit, hospital admission, admission to ICU, etc. At that point we handed it to our attorney and proceeded from there. We're not a lawsuit kind of family, but in this case, it was certainly warranted. I have family members in the medical field and every person they discussed the case with agreed that he should have been given the CAT scan right away, especially since he was on blood thinners and had a high risk of internal bleeding.

Anyway, my point is that I certainly can relate to what you're going through. It's tough and although it does get easier as time moves on, it still sucks. Stay strong, my friend. God bless!

A while ago, maybe 6 months or so, I had a horrible tooth infection. I had to go to the emergency room, it was so bad I was just crying and shaking. I went to the nearest hospital at around midnight and waited a while to be seen by an doctor.

He asked me the problem, looked in my mouth real quick, said "Yep, it's infected", gave me a pill and two prescriptions, one for pain killers and one for antibiotics.

The final bill: $650!!

He didn't even fix it! I had to go to NYU Dental School to get it fixed ( I have no insurance)

I got a consultation, xrays, a few shots to numb my face and a tooth extraction which was slightly more violent than I had expected since the young female med student didn't have the upper body strength to completely yank it out lol All this included quite a large number of doctors and med students.

The final bill: $100 cash!!!

I went to Costco for the prescriptions and got each bottle of pills for about 15 bucks.

The moral of this story? Screw the hospital, with prices like that it's no wonder they went out of business.

I have no health insurance, and the last time I saw an actual doctor cost me about $200...I had to go to the emergency room because I had been attacked by a cat.
I wasn't treated very well either. I had bite wounds and scratches from my thigh, down to my foot...the doctor just glanced at it, took my vitals, then accused me of being on illegal drugs because of my fast heart rate, high blood pressure and dilated pupils. He never learned about epinephrine, apparently. After that, he wrote me a prescription for antibiotics and left.
That was it, didn't give me anything to clean the wound, and no bandages either. As I was leaving though, the receptionist was nice enough to give me a stack of paper towels to put on my leg cause I was dripping blood everywhere. I'm not sure, but I think he probably should've given me stitches...one of the scratches didn't stop bleeding until the next day, and now I've got a lovely white scar on the back of my leg.


For routine checkups and such, I see a nurse practitioner at one of those open door clinics. I don't pay anything to be seen, but any lab work I need done usually costs around $60-$100.
I really should be seeing a specialist, since I have ulcerative colitis, but I can't afford insurance and am not eligible for CMSP or other aid.

Quick story:
Fist fight in Germany - I tried to pick up a pretty ethnic girl and wound up getting beat up by five of her cousins. Broken nose, bruised ribs and kidney. Overnight in the hospital. Never got a bill and I lived there for three years.

Daughter fell of the jungle gym and busted her head on a bar. No hospital stay, four stitches, x-rays, and other assorted assessment/treatment - my insurance didn't cover it as my daughter's medication had used up her allowable coverage for the year. $2300 for three hours of treatment, cash up front. If they had billed me, it would have $5000. Discounts for cash, apparently.


Yeah, I support national health care.

i am about 10G in debt from an abscess tooth (hemorrhage) over the summer.


blows...

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


I've got an ongoing thread right now in BTS

here's the link
www.belowtopsecret.com...

We have the NHS over here in england, it saddens me when i see the cost of healthcare in the USA, how do the really poor and really sick afford to literally live. If i see a doctor over here it is free completly, if i have to have anything operated on i pay nothing.
I pay a sum out of my wages called National Insurance to cover this round about £30 a month but this also covers welfare as well if i am ever out of work. We can choose to have private healthcare if we wish. A prescription from the doctor no matter what medication it is, costs £7.50 if you are on welfare this costs nothing.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

Being in the UK, a visit to the ER would cost me NOTHING on the NHS, neither would any follow up treatment.
Depending on what treatment a patient needs, there can sometimes be long waiting lists, but no cost whatsoever.
I recently had a bit of a health scare, and the doctor fast tracked me and I got a hospital appointment within the week....once again...no cost.
When my son needed treatment as a toddler, I did pay to go private, as the waiting list for what needed to be done, was about 11 months, and that wait could have meant him being permanently deaf, which I didn't want to risk.

To Shadowflux and Alaskan man:

~edit to add~ Canada here.....

Same thing for me around this time last year. Woke up in the middle of the night in excruciating pain. Went to work in the morning to tell my employer I was going to be out for the day ( the left side of my face was like a grapefruit) Phoned my dentist...."sorry we have no openings today". I told them they didn't have to see me, just write a perscription for antibiotics. No go....and mind you, I pay full out of pocket to them...no dental insurance. I didn't want to go to the emergency room for an infected tooth. Called my doctor's office and explained my situation to the receptionist. Her response..."How quickly could you get here?" . 20 mins later I was at the office...1 hour later I was at the pharmacist. Filled 2 prescriptions, around $15ea. and took the day off work. That's, that........

Went to the dentist after my full run of antibiotics. Root canal....around $450 out of pocket.

My doctor's office whom I don't pay a cent(except taxes) treated me better then my dentist, who is a direct employee since I pay cash.

Gonna have to have a tooth pulled soon, estimated cost $600.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Connector]

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Connector]

I wonder what the how much a person pays in taxes to account for universal health care in their country, compared to what we have in the U.S?

While the visits are cheaper, I wonder how much they pay for their own type of "insurance".

I also wonder how much, if at all, would the doctors pays get reduced if this system passes. I then wonder if we would have a shortage of doctors etc etc.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

I believe it is only around 15 euros a month!
Which also covers welfare if you are laid off!
That was from one poster I believe who is in belgium.
Most of our taxes goes towards defense and paying interest on our debt!
Beautifull system we got here, eh?

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Well, I don't have health care. I havent had it for more than 3 years and I've needed to go to the hospital once, about 2-3 months ago for what we found out was a case of vertigo.
When I came into the hospital, the emergency room, they said they were going to turn me away since I didnt have insurance unless I could cover a $245 deposit. So I did (thinking my vertigo may be something serious like a tumor etc). I waited in the waiting room for at least 3 hours. Saw the doctor for about 10 minuets, was charged $165.
$165 for a 10 min visit! I want that job!
The healthcare here in the US is absolute rubbish... greedy sobs

In the USA where I live I went to the Emergency room (without any insurance) for the first and last time about 3 years ago. Talk about a good old fashion rape!

It happened late evening as I was watching a doom and gloom movie with a lot of stress in it. That's when I had a dizzy spell and decided to have myself checked out because who knows what that could be from. My heart rate was elevated because I was pretty nervous about having my very first dizzy spell (it never happened again by the way).

Those fu@#%rs gave me chest x-rays, a drug test (even after I told them that I'm not using any kind of drugs, period!), and hooked me up to a heart monitor for about 1.5 hours...

The cost....

$3200.00 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those thieves didn't determine or cure anything. They just followed their usual flow-chart of procedures and stuck me with a outrageous bill in which they were very keen to collect up on. The entire situation reminded me of a person who is attacked by leeches or blood suckers.

It was at this point that I went 100% alternative medicine. So the American Medical System did do one good favor for me. They made sure that I would seek out real medicine and never ever return to them again for so much as a aspirin.

I don't know if Obamacare is going to be a good thing or not. I do know that without medical insurance the USA Medical System has priced itself out of people's ability to afford them. Perhaps a competing socialistic plan will bring prices or services back into the realm of the sane.

From my personal experience (and I know I'm certainly not the only Yank that this has happened to) I think it is time that something is tried.

My grandfather said he used to work for around $0.50/hour in China as a Physician in the 70's and 80's.

Doctors today earn like $90/hr.


The healthcare system is corrupt, we need doctors that want to save lives, not go for the money. I know many doctors who had no intention of becoming a doctor back in high school.