Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Pathos

 

"Our government" orchestrated pearl harbor. Research it and see for yourself.

Then if you can't admit that don't bother with 911 ever again, you'll just be unable to reach an unbiased conclusion.

What jprophet420 is telling you is that if you do not fall for the conspiracy theory that "Pearl Harbor was an inside job", then you won't fall for the conspiracy theory that "9/11 was an inside job." So, in that case, don't bother jprophet420 with facts or evidence because he will refuse to change his pre-determined conclusions.

Wierd, isn't it? But that is the fundamental premise of the so-called "9/11 'Truth' Movement." It is also why that movement is self-destructing.


[edit on 4-9-2009 by jthomas]

Originally posted by Albastion
Yes, there are many versions of what could have really happened on 9/11. Some of those may be honest conjecture, some might be disinformation.

What is much more interesting are the problems with the official story. For example, the 9/11 Commission report doesn't mention WTC7 at all. There is a lot of controversy involving WTC 7. In my opinion it is the smoking gun of the whole thing.
[edit on 4-9-2009 by Albastion]

Do you know why there are multiple conspiracy versions of 9/11?
Because once one the theories gets debunked, someone changes the narrative to fit a new theory. Its an endless and mindless cycle of nothingness, which plays out in circles of hatred toward an individual or group. It has nothing to do with 9/11 in general, but for the previous sitting administration who sought out a war in Iraq. That is also why they inject racism into any opposing debate. If they cannot make their original case, they will manipulate the original story to fit the narrative. It goes on and on and on. Eventually, it will lead them to developing conspiracy on top of conspiracy. At the end of the whole bloody cycle, they will have forgotten about the first and only truth. September 11th, 2001 occurred because a group of extremists made it passed our defenses.

reply to post by weedwhacker


hey Chap, absolutely Al Qaeda doesn't exist. It never has for a few simple reasons.

When the FBI went to file for prosecution and warrant of the responsible group, they discovered there was 'no group' or 'intel ' that linked a name in with the group, in fact, there was no reliable intel that linked bin laden to the crime, which is why Bin Ladens Warrant page on the the fbi.gov WANTED page does not say he is responsible for 9/11. It'd be illegal to do so in fact, since they already admit they do not have sufficient grounds to prosecute him.

Interestingly, the name Al Qaeda came about when the FBI were required by statutory law to take a case against an organisation, or individual, since there was no organisation and the supposed responsible individual could not be held accountable, the legal entity (name) 'al qaeda' was created, it's truly imaginary; at best, people are mistaken to think the group exists as Al Qaeda.

At most we can say Al Qaeda is the legal entity given by the FBI to attribute legal proceedings towards the eastern islamist rebels and terrorist groups whom are willing to fight to defend their country, these groups are possibly the group who perpetrated 911.

english.pravda.ru...

There is a news.bbc.co.uk article which says the identical thing 'Al Qaeda' never existed , but I can't find it right now.. other ATS'ers may though.




A

Originally posted by Pathos
Do you know why there are multiple conspiracy versions of 9/11?
Because once one the theories gets debunked, someone changes the narrative to fit a new theory. Its an endless and mindless cycle of nothingness, which plays out in circles of hatred toward an individual or group. It has nothing to do with 9/11 in general, but for the previous sitting administration who sought out a war in Iraq. That is also why they inject racism into any opposing debate. If they cannot make their original case, they will manipulate the original story to fit the narrative. It goes on and on and on. Eventually, it will lead them to developing conspiracy on top of conspiracy. At the end of the whole bloody cycle, they will have forgotten about the first and only truth. September 11th, 2001 occurred because a group of extremists made it passed our defenses.

Logical Fallacy: Burden of Proof

It shouldn't be up to the truthers to come up with a coherent story. Maybe the US government should release some of the black boxes, satellite footage, and security camera footage to settle the matter. They are the ones who are telling the official story. Besides, you ignore the fact that people can just make up whatever craziness they want to discredit honest people who want a real explanation.

Originally posted by Pathos

This video does explain a lot:
American Exceptionalism

OMG! that guy is twisting the definitions of Imperialism so much it's not funny! - he's leaving out all of the rest and just focus on one! - that's propaganda!

FYI! that's not the total definition - go back and look at the definitions mate!

No wonder so many people of your country are soo messed up!

That was a neocon brainwashing video.

Well! go back to watch your one way American fantasy propaganda and embrace ignorance, because you have apparently made up your mind already and are beyond any help!

I'm not wasting my time here!

Good luck in your fantasy world!


[edit on 4-9-2009 by Chevalerous]

Here is a list of the top 40 reasons not to believe the official 9/11 story.

The Top 40

I'm sure many of you have seen this before.

Originally posted by Albastion

Originally posted by Pathos
Do you know why there are multiple conspiracy versions of 9/11?
Because once one the theories gets debunked, someone changes the narrative to fit a new theory. Its an endless and mindless cycle of nothingness, which plays out in circles of hatred toward an individual or group. It has nothing to do with 9/11 in general, but for the previous sitting administration who sought out a war in Iraq. That is also why they inject racism into any opposing debate. If they cannot make their original case, they will manipulate the original story to fit the narrative. It goes on and on and on. Eventually, it will lead them to developing conspiracy on top of conspiracy. At the end of the whole bloody cycle, they will have forgotten about the first and only truth. September 11th, 2001 occurred because a group of extremists made it passed our defenses.

Logical Fallacy: Burden of Proof

It shouldn't be up to the truthers to come up with a coherent story. Maybe the US government should release some of the black boxes, satellite footage, and security camera footage to settle the matter. They are the ones who are telling the official story. Besides, you ignore the fact that people can just make up whatever craziness they want to discredit honest people who want a real explanation.

Also, add those people who want to sell books.

Within a court of law, truthers (plaintiff) would have to supply the facts and evidence. Why do they want a reinvestigation, they do not have anything to support their theories. If a second investigation did occur, it would be tainted by political motivations. As a result of individuals messing with evidence, they will twist it to fit their narrative. You will never-ever get a comprehensive story from reopening this case. It would be politically motivated.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

I have read through this entire thread. The amount of information given by many long term posters and very well educated people, is amazing. The only thing i see you doing is egging people on trying to get the to 'bark back' without giving any real substantial information to back up your thoughts. Your posts are pure rhetoric, Not science, logic or facts.

reply to post by Hakii
Answer to your question has already been examined and explained above your post.

I never really post on this particular subject but I do read the threads in it..I use to think like you as well UNTIL I started reading about 9/11 and everything that was wrong with it. It always made me feel uneasy and that something wasnt right about it. I have read more about 9/11 on this forum than anywhere else and many posters put up very good points with the evidence and links to back up their theories. Why is so hard to believe that a President would do this?? How many leaders in this world over time have killed hundreds of thousands or more for sport? Many! Nobody wants to believe that their leader would do this to their country and to their own people but the sad fact is it happens. You should probably read some of the threads in the 9/11 forum and go to the many links in regards to 9/11 and the truth...I had an argument with someone who thought like you and when they started reading about it they changed their mind on it and decided to learn more on their own. There are so many things that just dont add up...READ and you will see as well..

reply to post by Pathos


Thanks for the browbeating Pathos. I really enjoyed it. You
commented that anyone who doesn't subscribe to the official
9/11 commission report is lacking in humanity. My humanity
is intact, thank you very much yet I do not believe that the
commission report is an accurate explanation of the events
of 9/11. I watched both video links but the "American
Exceptionalism" video was a neoconservative apologist rant
if I've ever heard one. Whether it's Dick Cheney defending
torture or the pioneers
killing indians for manifest destiny it's the universal excuse for
any illegal and immoral actions we take as a nation. We can
do what we want because were "exceptional". The germans in
WW2 were as were the Mongol race when they overran europe.
Self-imagined superiority is always the justification for acts of
war and intimidation.
It would be much to my preference that we never commit such
acts that we feel the need to justify them. This is not an impossible
goal - to NOT torture, to NOT invade sovereign nations illegally, etc
etc.
I ascribe to no politcal parties but I am not an anarchist. I believe
America is a great country but I think we could be better. There
is one difference between us though - even though I may disagree
with you I will not resort to name calling or diminishing your
intelligence or humanity. You are my brother American, we can
disagree without being disagreeable. That is what makes our
nation great.

reply to post by 7redorbs


Well Chappie, I am interested in when you think the FBI "created" Al Qaeda. BTW, relying on Pravda?

reply to post by Albastion


Sure we've seen it before on ATS. Its full of misleading statements and lies. Its been demolished before.

Pathos, I have noticed many people have showed you links to information, reasoned why the official story does not make sense, and applied logic to come to their conclusions that the official story is NOT what actually happened.

I believe you should put aside your love for this nation for a moment, so as to think with no bias and be as objective as possible,and look at all the wealth of information that has been given to you.

Now, if you do that, and you STILL believe the official story is correct, then you are clearly not wanting to accept the fact that the government is lying to you.

Or, if you have already really looked at all the evidence objectively and STILL believe the official story is correct, then what was the point of you posting this in the boards?
was it to attack the people who don't buy the official story, or do you have another goal in mind?

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
I never really post on this particular subject but I do read the threads in it..I use to think like you as well UNTIL I started reading about 9/11 and everything that was wrong with it. It always made me feel uneasy and that something wasnt right about it. I have read more about 9/11 on this forum than anywhere else and many posters put up very good points with the evidence and links to back up their theories. Why is so hard to believe that a President would do this?? How many leaders in this world over time have killed hundreds of thousands or more for sport? Many! Nobody wants to believe that their leader would do this to their country and to their own people but the sad fact is it happens. You should probably read some of the threads in the 9/11 forum and go to the many links in regards to 9/11 and the truth...I had an argument with someone who thought like you and when they started reading about it they changed their mind on it and decided to learn more on their own. There are so many things that just dont add up...READ and you will see as well..

I think the truth was lost due to people feeling betrayed by Bush. If Bush did not attack Iraq in his second term, people would not be questioning the original events of 9/11. Many of these believers are dismissing what their eyes saw. Even though it played out (in front of them) on live tv in color, their feelings for what Bush did his second term will overshadow reality. When people are driven emotionally in this way, the truth of 'all' events are put into question. I have no problem with them questioning the original events; however, its driven by intense emotions that is throwing out all sense of logic. My advice to these people would be to let it go. We have a new problem sitting in office.

FYI - Yes, I knew that clip was based upon propaganda; however, it does speak a certain level of truth. People have to be reminded as to why our country is exceptional, and our current president is not helping with the healing process. Instead of having faith in this country, he is demoralizing everyone by apologizing to other countries and putting us down. The United States is a beautiful country that deserves better leaders. Bush's second term was illogical, for it was a late (rational) war being played out at the wrong time. Obama is making our problems worse.

We need leaders who can stand up and say, "We are Americans. Even though we have taken bad turns, the United States is an honest and great country at its core." Obama is too busy putting us down, and telling us and everyone else we s*ck. As a result of being put down, we have become divided by two presidents in modern history. One who has betrayed our trust, and a second one who is using our damaged morale for political leverage.

We deserve way better.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Pathos


We invaded Iraq during his first term. The questioning of Sept 11, started within two weeks of September 11th.

reply to post by newworld


What is astonishing is how readily some people tend to dismiss what they ridicule as the "Official Story", in favor of what amounts to a load of hogwash that is unsupported in any way.

Perhaps it would be a start if someone who is a "Truth Seeker" would sit down and actually define the "OS", as they see it.

Because, what has happened especially in the last several years, is the issue has become so cloudy and filled with outright lies and misconceptions that it is nebulous at best.

People who promote the VAST conspiracy aren't telling all the truths, they are picking and choosing what they want, to make their stories seem to make sense. It is dishonesty, and it is not pretty to see. AND it's a shame that people are falling for most of it.

I have seen so many, many completely incorrect assertions, from the "Truth" side, it boggles the mind. The Internet is rife with them, because ONCE a false claim is made, and it gets picked up by one or two other people, then it is sold as "Truth" forever, as it spreads. There is no room for facts, only the junk that people "believe"...

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Pathos

 

We invaded Iraq during his first term. The questioning of Sept 11, started within two weeks of September 11th.

Ah. Right and wrong. September 11th investigations was started in order to understand what went wrong. It wasn't an investigation into the question of "Was there a conspiracy?" As it turned out from the initial investigation, communications between the intelligence agencies was lacking. Even though one of the intelligence agencies was yelling, the other was not listening to the warnings.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

You'd have to be beyond ignorant to believe that our government had nothing to do w/ 9/11. Seriously..

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by newworld

 

What is astonishing is how readily some people tend to dismiss what they ridicule as the "Official Story", in favor of what amounts to a load of hogwash that is unsupported in any way.

Perhaps it would be a start if someone who is a "Truth Seeker" would sit down and actually define the "OS", as they see it.

Because, what has happened especially in the last several years, is the issue has become so cloudy and filled with outright lies and misconceptions that it is nebulous at best.

People who promote the VAST conspiracy aren't telling all the truths, they are picking and choosing what they want, to make their stories seem to make sense. It is dishonesty, and it is not pretty to see. AND it's a shame that people are falling for most of it.

I have seen so many, many completely incorrect assertions, from the "Truth" side, it boggles the mind. The Internet is rife with them, because ONCE a false claim is made, and it gets picked up by one or two other people, then it is sold as "Truth" forever, as it spreads. There is no room for facts, only the junk that people "believe"...

It is true that many of the theories that the truth movement gives are obviously incorrect (for there can only be one truth when it comes to these kinds of issues, five different versions can't all be right).
but the thing that unifies all the "truthers", as they are called, is that we don't believe the official story. We want the TRUE story to be revealed whatever it is.


the official story does not make sense; it goes against all logic to believe that the planes would cause such a collapse of the towers (which was eerily similar to a controlled explosion), or the evidence of internal explosions within the towers that are not talked about or mentioned in the official story, or why the evidence of the plane (some would argue it was not a plane) that hit the pentagon was so hurriedly hidden away, or why would the U.S. suffer an attack of this magnitude considering the fact we have some of the best security against this kind of incidents- the list is endless.

Maybe no theory of the truth movement is correct, but one thing is for certain- the "official story" is a lie, and what really happened is being hidden from us.