Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

reply to post by king9072


Now, reprint the whole paragraph from that report. When taken in context the Pearl Harbor statement comes across a lot different. And yes, we had plans written up to invade Afghanistan before 9/11....we also had plans to invade dozens of other countries. There are file cabinets full of all sorts of war plans at the Pentagon, up to and including a supposed plan on how to respond to hostile aliens.....

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by 7redorbs

 

Well Chappie, I am interested in when you think the FBI "created" Al Qaeda. BTW, relying on Pravda?

I am relying on the British Broadcasting Company as well, considered one of, if not the most reputable broadcasting company in the world. I think that is interesting.

It's a fact the FBI created the name Al Qaeda, if you don't know it, check it, because I assure you, you will be as surprised as I was.

A

reply to post by 7redorbs


The same BBC that goofed up reporting on WTC 7? The same BBC that hunted down the wrong guys and called them the "alive" 9/11 hijackers? I want to know when YOU think it was.

Especially since Osama was spewing hatred of the West since the 80s....

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Swampfox46_1999]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by king9072

 

Now, reprint the whole paragraph from that report. When taken in context the Pearl Harbor statement comes across a lot different. And yes, we had plans written up to invade Afghanistan before 9/11....we also had plans to invade dozens of other countries. There are file cabinets full of all sorts of war plans at the Pentagon, up to and including a supposed plan on how to respond to hostile aliens.....

Hey, how are all those many, many security camera videos from the pentagon coming along? Have your bosses told you when they'll release those yet? Innocent governments are always so quick to provide all the evidence. I am sure there's a logical reason why no one is allowed to see them.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by impressme

 

Now why is it when I type in "disinformationist" into dictionary.com it says no such word....

Of course when I do a google search it comes up a few thousand times.......attached to 9-11 "truthers"

What is a "truther"? I typed it into dictionary.com and it says no results found.

Back on topic, it seems the OP is just beginning to question his reality. I applaud his effort for thinking about disturbing topics in which society is afraid to consider. However it seems that the OP is still in the acknowledgement step of finding the truth. Don't let the disinformation cloud your judgement.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by 7redorbs

 

The same BBC that goofed up reporting on WTC 7? The same BBC that hunted down the wrong guys and called them the "alive" 9/11 hijackers? I want to know when YOU think it was.

Yeah, I understand your suspicions, if you check though, Al Qaeda never existed until after 9/11. This is because the name was created by the FBI to prosecute, they can't prosecute (or declare war for that matter) without an entity, thats why one was created.



A

reply to post by 7redorbs


See my edited post. Osama and his organization were around long before 2001.

After a few pages it seems like people are trying to get the truthers to "prove" it was a conspiracy. That is, prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that 9-11 was an inside job. You are the people, and you serve as the jury. It is up to you, the people, to decide what "reasonable doubt" means.

Whether or not we can provide that proof of a conspiracy in this thread is irrelevant. In a court of law that would take years. How could we possibly do that in an internet forum? The funny thing is we never had to prove it at all.

All we had to prove was that believing in a 9/11 conspiracy theory is not immoral, illogical, or grotesque. That was the point of this thread, and I believe that we have succeeded.

We submitted evidence about how the government planned specifically to attack its own people before, with Operation Northwoods. Operation Northwoods was a 'grotesque' plan, to use your own words, and it has some very chilling similarities to 9-11. We stood back, taking personal insults, while trying to logically explain our position to you. When you asked for proof, we gave you evidence, such as the anomalous collapse of WTC7, which you dismissed as sheer coincidence. Ok then.

The fact is, we don't have to prove anything to you, other than the fact that the belief in conspiracy in this case is a valid opinion that should be respected. Your attempts to marginalize people who want a better explanation for what happened on that day are doomed to fail because there are too many of us. Your attempts to compare us to holocaust deniers and moon hoax believers was as ineffective as it was idiotic.

According to a Zogby poll on the matter, about half of America wants a reinvestigation to 9/11, with an error rate of +/-3.1%.

The OP is calling 150 million people grotesque... and that is just Americans. The numbers for the rest of the world is no doubt much higher, and that was in 2007. I doubt the rest of the world is as trusting of the Bush administration as some Americans are.

The whole point of this topic, which was calling truthers grotesque, falls flat. We weathered their childish insults and ultimately forced them into a reasonable discussion with us, and that is the true victory.

This is a quote that comes straight from Hitler's psychological profile. Hitler's rules were:

Never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it

Look the Big Lie in the face and see it for what it is.

The Big Lie is a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. -- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Albastion]

reply to post by king9072


They have already been FOIA'd and the videos that showed anything related to Flight 77 have been released. The majority of the videos didnt show a thing because the cameras were not pointed towards the Pentagon.

Oh yes...my bosses....

My bosses, are concerned about the operations of an F-16 fighter wing...and not about people like you.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Swampfox46_1999]

reply to post by jprophet420


The truth is 911 truthers are a minority i don't know where you got your statistics from but its a fringe movement we actually discussed this in one of our debates.

Only 46 per cent of respondents named al-Qaeda, while 25 per cent said they did not know and 15 per cent said the US government was behind the attacks as of September of 2008. This was also a world wide poll

In Muslim countries - there we've carried out a number of focus groups - it's clear there is a feeling that the US had some kind of motivation, such as invading Iraq
There are also some difficulties with the idea that Muslims carried out attacks on civilians - which is widely seen as wrong and contrary to Islam... And there are plenty of people in Muslim countries who say it would have been too technically difficult [for al-Qaeda] to pull off.

However with the continued attacks by al-Qaeda including the latest in Saudi Arabia these numbers will continue to rise as people see al-Qaeda is a threat.Took Saudis a while but there going after them with a vengeance.


This truther movement is nothing new even after pearl harbour about 14 percent of americans believed the government staged Pearl Harbour. During the vietnam war had a conspiracy runniong saying that this was being done to attack the chinese. There is all ways a fringe movement involved whenver the government deploys troops.

I don't know about creating Al Qaeda, but I'm pretty sure the U.S. and other countries supplied the Mujahideen with weapons to fight the Soviet-backed communists in Afghanistan around 1980. Bin Laden was involved in that from what I understand.

reply to post by eMachine


There were two distinct groups fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. One group were the Afghan fighters that the US supported through Pakistan. The other was comprised of Arabs being supported by Osama and others.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by 7redorbs

 

See my edited post. Osama and his organization were around long before 2001.

But Al-Qaeda wasn't!


Question: why make a name up a new (different) name for an organization that already exists?


A

[edit on 4-9-2009 by 7redorbs]

reply to post by 7redorbs


From the November 1998 indictment against Osama Bin Laden..

"From in or about 1989 until the present, the group called itself "Al Qaeda" ("the Base")...."

www.fas.org...

Im sorry, what were you saying about the FBI creating "Al Qaeda" after 9/11???

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

They have already been FOIA'd and the videos that showed anything related to Flight 77 have been released. The majority of the videos didnt show a thing because the cameras were not pointed towards the Pentagon.

Yes, the video that the pentagon released had missing frames
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You make excesses for the government as if YOU know where all the cameras were amide, that is the most ridiculous excuse I have heard yet. Stop spreading disinformation!

reply to post by impressme

You make excesses for the government as if YOU know where all the cameras were amide, that is the most ridiculous excuse I have heard yet. Stop spreading disinformation!

That is "excuses" and "aimed".

I guess you are one of the fools that thinks local businesses are going to pay money for surveillance cameras and instead of pointing them at their businesses, they would point them towards the Pentagon///

To the OP.what's grotesque here is your blind faith in our government you are giving the benefit of a doubt to people who planned to use domestic terrorism to get public support for an invasion of Cuba.Also, I know this might seem totally and utterly outrageous but look at the shoot-down site at Shanksville and then explain how several people some of them veterans described hearing what sounded to them as a missile hitting that plane.The story of the heroic passengers overpowering the evil "terrorists." is just that a story.

Pathos...an apt name.

People such as yourself worry me more than 100 Bin ladens. Its folks with a blind knee jerk mentality to anything that might cause you to pause that get people like Hitler, Ahamedinejhad, and Franco the jobs we remember them for.

You also attack a an idea that you are clearly ignorant of. Judging by your posts, you obviously have no clue about alot of what you attack, you attack out of sheer blind ignorance. That is not the mindset of an individual who is very conscious of the world beyond his own.

I did not suspect a conspiracy in 9/11 simply because I had nothing better to do, nor did it start by Youtube browsing or conspiracy site trolling. Youtube did not exist then. It really started from reading the own words and accounts of the very powers and entitites you so rabidly trust and defend, and starting to notice first inconsistancies, then blatant lies. In otherwords, I just watched and read the news. Conspiracy sites came a year later.

If you do not find the following, at the very least, worth of further investigation:

FBI ordering their field agents to stop tailing the 9/11 hijackers a few months before the attacks, even though the field agents were worried that the suspects were coming close to something big

Intelligence warnings from allies, with specifics even, which were at first denied by the Bush administration, then admitted. Even actor James Wood, a week before the attacks, watched said hijackers doing a dry run on the very flight that would hit WTC 1. he reported this to the authorities, yet nothing was noted or passed on.

Heavy involvement by the Pakistani intelligence agency, which has extremely strong ties to the CIA. This includes wire transfers of large amounts of money to the hijackers

Flight 77 hijack confirmed for almost 40 minutes after two planes hit the WTC, yet no interceptor jets scrambled, no evacuations in washington D.C. no alerts given, no measures taken

Large debris field from flight 93, plus passenger phone call, suggesting breakup in mid air and possible shoot down

Why five Israeli men with faked passports were arrested on 9/11, taking pictures and celebrating the death and destruction in the towers, yet quietly released and deported afterwords without incident or follow up

Why the 9/11 commission declared the weird increase in put options (bets that the price of a stock will go down, in effect) in United and American Airlines, to be "innocuous".

Why building 7 collapsed, even though it wasn't hit by a plane.

Why 2 trillion dollars in the Pentagon's coffers went unaccounted for not long before the attacks

Why the Air Force was tied up in an exercise simulating the very events that ended up happening

Why the Bush administration had many pages of information regarding the Saudis blacked out for the 9/11 commission.

...then, well, you would make the world's worst fraud/criminal investigator.


These are all facts and questions presented to us by the media and government themselves, not tinfoil-hat wearing geeks in basements. And these are right off the top of my head.

Even if you do believe wholly the official account and explaination, then you should be outraged, as the official story on its own is nothing less than fatal incompetance on the part of the people you pay taxes to do a job to. It was a catastrophic failure at all levels, then, and if you are truly a good citizen as you like to claim, then you would be demanding heads rolling in washington. People should have been fired, massive inquiries into why key officials were not doing the job we tax payers pay them handsomely to perform. If you believe the official story, and actually UNDERSTAND what it is they are feeding you, then you can only believe that 9/11 because of a massive, critical failure in our entire governmental apparatus. And an unforgivable one, at that. This isn't some mathematically challenged Pentagon accountant paying 40k for a toilet seat. This screw up cost the lives of over 3000 people, many of them Americans you claim to have such love and faith for.

Of course, that's only if you believe the official story as is, unadaulterated.

However, unlike you, there are many of us who, at a simple glance, aren't satisfied with the BS that they want us to eat, and we want some friggin answers and an investigation. A real one, not the underfunded whitewash that the 9/11 commission report was.

And, for the record, i do believe middle eastern hijackers did indeed hijack the planes and crash them into 3 buildings. I do not believe in holograms, missiles, or flyovers. So the usual debunker ravings simply roll off me like water off a ducks back.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Why 2 trillion dollars in the Pentagon's coffers went unaccounted for not long before the attacks

It wasnt 2.3 trillon in cash. From Rumsfeld's speech on 9/10/2001....

According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.

www.defenselink.mil...

And it was known about long before Sept 2001...

In fiscal 1999, a defense audit found that about $2.3 trillion of balances, transactions and adjustments were inadequately documented. These "unsupported" transactions do not mean the department ultimately cannot account for them, she advised, but that tracking down needed documents would take a long time. Auditors, she said, might have to go to different computer systems, to different locations or access different databases to get information

From the AP...

By JOHN M. DONNELLY The Associated Press 03/03/00 5:44 PM Eastern

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The military's money managers last year made almost $7 trillion in adjustments to their financial ledgers in an attempt to make them add up, the Pentagon's inspector general said in a report released Friday.

The Pentagon could not show receipts for $2.3 trillion of those changes, and half a trillion dollars of it was just corrections of mistakes made in earlier adjustments.

hv.greenspun.com...

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by 7redorbs

 

From the November 1998 indictment against Osama Bin Laden..

"From in or about 1989 until the present, the group called itself "Al Qaeda" ("the Base")...."

www.fas.org...

Im sorry, what were you saying about the FBI creating "Al Qaeda" after 9/11???

This is the time when I apologise for getting my facts wrong, Al-Qaeda was a label invented to try Bin Laden and co in their absence after the 1998 Embassy bombings NOT 9/11/2001.



A

[edit on 4-9-2009 by 7redorbs]

[edit on 4-9-2009 by 7redorbs]