Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

reply to post by Pathos


i did say freemasons were harmful. i said that thousands of them can successfully keep secrets.

the atom bomb was a conspiracy against the enemy. conspiracies are always against the enemy.

in the case of 9/11, the general populace is the enemy, and "they" are good at keeping it secret.

your argument is that if something is too big, it can't be kept secret. i showed this to be false.

this is the edit...

that was a BAD typo. i meant to say "i DIDN'T say freemasons were harmful." OOOPSSS!!!

[edit on 9-9-2009 by billybob]

reply to post by Pathos

Popular Mechanics:
Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report

Your signature automatically renders anything you post suspect.

UnPopular Mechanics is just another Military Industrial Complex contractor and Defense Dept mouthpiece with a built-in need to lie for the status quo. James Meigs has proven himself a compulsive liar and professional spinmeister again and again. He has a bachelors degree in Philosophy and absolutely no background in science whatsoever. He excels in the arts of propaganda and illusion. Another UPM staffer Benjamin Chertoff (of the devil in Russian and cousin to former Homeland Security czar Michael Chertoff) is another propagandist.

Obviously you have approached 9-11 with a deep built-in bias in favor of the government god; the giver of freedom and life and defender of same. The very government our founding fathers warned us we must control with an iron hand or it would turn on us. Has our government turned on We the People and betrayed us? You know it is so.

Why are there so many holes and obvious contradictions and impossibilities in the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY? Why are so many retired government officials and military officers and intelligence officials demanding a real investigation into 9-11. Why do you ignore them?

Why do you not question the need for lies from those alleged to be investigating the 9-11 Attack on America and the WTC Destruction? Why do you not question the need for lies from those alleged to be defending America from air attack?

With the misdeeds of the 9-11 Whitewash Commission and the allowance of the deliberate lying to them by the Defense Department Generals, and the deliberate ignoring of the willing 503 WTC 1st responders and their 19,000 pages of testimony reporting multiple explosions and demolition in the WTC, and the deliberate lying by NIST and John Gross; Surely an actual investigation into 9-11 is not too much to ask for.

Is it?

Are the 3000+ victims of the 9-11 perps never to receive justice? What say you Pathos? Why would you be dead-set against a real investigation into 9-11?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2a89fac91af.jpg[/atsimg]

Zionist Michael Chertoff is a US/Israeli dual-citizen and the primary architect of the Phony War on Terrorism.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b7fe349dc69b.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by billybob
how many masons are there throughout the last , say, 100 years, and have they been able to keep their secrets?

Free Masons are harmless. I should know. I have two in my family. Masons are local business owners who only seek more business.

The Atom Bomb wasn't a conspiracy.

Originally posted by Pathos


The Atom Bomb wasn't a conspiracy.

No the premise of your argument if I'm not mistaken, pathos, was to show your disbelief something as big as 911 could be kept under wraps by so many, all keeping the same huge project a secret.

So that is the question to you pathos, you say their would have been whistle blowers because it is so hard for you to believe all those firemen were in on it when no one says they had to be. All those cops and health workers were in on it, when no one says they needed to be. All they are is "un-knowing agents" in a conspiracy. You seem to think 911 truthers believe the Government planned 911. No one has said they had to be, YOU ARE SAYING that ABOUT us.

All that has to be proven is complicity and that many in law enforcement and at top levels of the Government knew that Osama Bin Laden was going to attack the towers. That can be proven unequivocally absolutley.

The next question is what would be the motive for allowing an attack like that, to go off without a hitch, where if you add up all the un-answered questions and the very strange and unique "firsts" in history that happened that day, from not just one, not just two but TRHEE steel frame building to come down by fire a first in history. THREE! the same DAY! by the same Group! and all three coming down at near free fall speed onto their own footprint too! in the same City!

All plane crashes where all but one had voice recorder didn't have data totally destroyed by crash damage. The fact the towers represent the longest burning building ever taking as long as five months to finally cool down the molten metal being dug out from the pile of steel at ground zero.

The idea that ALL of our military were engaged in similar defense operations ensuring they would be confused or delayed about a real attack to buildings is just so ironic. The fact we had only TWO aircraft to scramble in the whole continental United States and that EVEN THEY, were sent on a wild goose chase but more than that is the fact they were sent out without a single missle of ordnance added to their wings.

The fact that law suits being made by Osama Bin Laden to the united states supreme court since 1997, we constantly warning us to get out of the middle east face an attack with many cliches and hints that any idiot could figure out about what this guy was going to do.

The thoughts and ideas of the PNAC where just hours after the attack we see key people all archetects of PNAC, saying Iraq did this and Ironically Colin Powel who was known for his opinion about staying out of there, was "conveniently" marginalized so much he couldn't get a message to anyone no matter what he tried or did, he was kept out of the loop like GWB was in the beginning. Dick Cheney former CEO of weapons dealers for haliburton, would have known like he did when Haliburton was selling nuke components to iran. Ironic isn't it that we abmonish Iran for this same thing? Ironic isn't it that Cheney, Wolfowits, Rumsfeld, were reticent about anyone asking questions why they were so sure it was Iraq having something to do with it and why they INSISTED their had to be SOME clues to implicate them and not to come back to them until they had the answer they wanted to hear.

That 4 passports could fly out of wallets in the back pockets of terrorists, in good condition, when just finding teeth you could identify a body was near impossible. The sheer coincedence of Rumsfeld saying back then to test his pet project of "transformation" for the new American n Century, they would need something like a "New Pearl Harbor". Proving those men I mention are liars had taken long but now, EVERYONE knows they were.

Proving they had known such an attack was not only possible but imminent proven by the fact they were already engaged in military war games for such an attack, then lied about even imagining someone using planes as a weapon like that is asking us to bury our heads in the sand buns up kneeling asking "how deep" you want to go.

George Bush had planned on going into iraq before he was elected and THAT was proven. The idea he might see the attacks on the towers as an opportunity for that pearl harbor they needed is academic,.

All they needed to do is add a little more drama to the equation to get the mass hysteria and confusion run amock that something like two Gigantic Towers crumbling to the ground from two planes hitting them would bring.

Rigging up such a CD is easy according to you, a random set of floors set on fire by some jet fuel will do the same thing and so reliably well that even the parts of the building set on fire and falling on an adjacent bunker building will do what our militarys bunker busters can't do and bring THAT building down too!. They not only had known about it , they made damn sure it went off without a hitch!

Their are many here having questions and many here posing as truthers saying idiotic things just to have the logical fallacy of guilt by association made on ALL truthers as crack pots be establsihed by agents of the official alibi's employers.

You are either one of the employed, or are the most Naive American the Government ever pulled that one over on.

It really doesn't matter which, as BOTH are detestable, so much so they are grotesque and BOTH have no business, telling us how sick we are and only ONE has the answer to my question.


why







[edit on 9-9-2009 by Stylez]

Some stuff to read:
Skeptic.com
www.skeptic.com...

National Geographic
channel.nationalgeographic.com...

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by Pathos

In order for any successful conspiracy to work, only a handful of people can get involved. If you have more than four people in the group, the entire operation will fall apart rather quickly. Someone is guaranteed to open their mouth about the operation; thus, turning in their fellow conspirators.

When it came to using the event of 9/11 to get into Iraq, there were only eight people mainly involved.

[edit on 8-9-2009 by Pathos]

This is an interesting theory. Why is there only eight in on the conspiracy to start a war with Iraq?

Why doesn't it include Ahmed Chalabi?

Why doesn't it include any member of the INC?

Why doesn't it include "curveball"?

Why doesn't it include the person known only by the alias A.S.?

Why doesn't it include Sabah Khodada?

Why doesn't it include Jamal al-Ghurairy?

Why doesn't it include Francis Brooke?

Why doesn't it include James Woolsey?

Why doesn't it include Chris Carney?

Why doesn't it include Michael Ledeen?

Why doesn't it include David Wurmser?

Why doesn't it include Milos Zeman?

Why doesn't it include Michael Maloof?

Why doesn't it include the forgers of the Niger documents?

Why doesn't it include Peter Ricketts?

Why doesn't it include Pat D’Amuro?

Why doesn't it include Jack Straw?

Why doesn't it include Joseph Lieberman?

Why doesn't it include Stephen Cambone?

Why doesn't it include Harold Rhode?

Why doesn't it include Stephen Hadley?

Why doesn't it include Stanislav Gross?

Why doesn't it include Robert Kagan?

I think I'll stop there. I think you get the picture that there were many people in on actively pursuing war with Iraq. The list could go on, especially if we include their support staffs. The point being simplified versions of history just don't cut it.

Originally posted by Pathos
Some stuff to read:
Skeptic.com
www.skeptic.com...

National Geographic
channel.nationalgeographic.com...

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Pathos]

Been there done that and so many of them have already been exploited as the reason people like you are still here.

Because WE won't ever give up until people like YOU give us the truth and not more ridicule about how absurd it is to think our Government, ya know the one that did the tuskegee experiments,

the one testing '___' on its own soldiers,

the one where one state had already signed eugenics laws into effect and doing experiments on unwilling "patients" (victims) .

The one that had its most beloved President shot in the head in a convertible on live to shock and confuse a nation while sending the message to another one in the same family a few years later.

The one that kills civil rights leaders for asking that same Governmentr to do what its Constitution is supposed to Guarantee.

The one that bugs your phones, listens to your conversations reads your emails and lies to your face about having sex with that woman or a putting thoughts and images of the threat of a mushroom cloud by manipulating an entire nation to participate in a unprovoked pre-emptive attack on a country building alleged WMD's

Yeah pathos, that would be the one.









[edit on 9-9-2009 by Stylez]

reply to post by SPreston

Zionist Michael Chertoff is a US/Israeli dual-citizen and the primary architect of the Phony War on Terrorism.

PROOF.

My gawd, is there no end to the delusions?

Paranoid revisionist rantings, stemming from who knows where, only the deepest recesses of some depraved mind, and that mind has managed to spread and infect a handful, it is testimony to the powers of persuasion.

When otherwise sane and rational people can be so easily swayed, by nothing other than rampant speculation, innuendo, and outright lies.

Seek out the "sources" of the bitter crap being fed out, regarding this issue. THAT should be your focus.

Everybody's focus.

Ya know, IF I were guilty of some misdeed, a very clever tactic to employ might involve the intentional leaking of false information implicating me, but by making it SO outlandish, it is laughed off by reasonable people, and therefore suspicions of my true crime are diverted, and dismissed.

Yup, seems to be working just as I planned......

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by billybob
how many masons are there throughout the last , say, 100 years, and have they been able to keep their secrets?

Free Masons are harmless. I should know. I have two in my family. Masons are local business owners who only seek more business.

The Atom Bomb wasn't a conspiracy.

Yeah, my dad was a freemason, and his group had nothing to do with any secrecy against the people. They were just an international social society interested in studying the occult and freemason practices. So they imitated certain rituals, such as standing around a fire and such fun activities. Most of the time they traveled to place and hung out together. It was always fun!

So blaming the freemasons for conpiracies is like blaming the Jews. They are not all involved! Just some of them, like any other group of people.

The atom bomb was a conspiracy by the way, but that's another story. Why do you say it wasn't? Just interested... Maybe you can convince me, since I don't know enough about it really, just what I read in Jim Marrs' book, which would make it a conspiracy.

Originally posted by NIcon
This is an interesting theory. Why is there only eight in on the conspiracy to start a war with Iraq?

Only those eight have political influence, and they have what they need in hand.

Originally posted by MightyAl
The atom bomb was a conspiracy by the way, but that's another story. Why do you say it wasn't? Just interested...

Maybe you can convince me, since I don't know enough about it really, just what I read in Jim Marrs' book, which would make it a conspiracy.

I was looking at the creation of the atomic bomb from a historical perspective. Since it was being constructed for defensive purposes, to protect the US, it would not be considered as a conspiracy.

9/11 conspiracy theories are based upon one's own government conspiring to kill them. The atom bomb was developed as a means to protect not to deceive.

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
speculation, innuendo, and outright lies.

Seek out the "sources" of the bitter crap being fed out, regarding this issue. THAT should be your focus.

Everybody's focus.

Ya know, IF I were guilty of some misdeed, a very clever tactic to employ might involve the intentional leaking of false information implicating me, but by making it SO outlandish, it is laughed off by reasonable people, and therefore suspicions of my true crime are diverted, and dismissed.

Yup, seems to be working just as I planned......

Yeah, and another is to come in here say a bunch of things without offering an iota of proof, not even a link to substantiate your unwanted unwarranted ridicule, then offer an example so academic, a rookie just hearing about 911 this afternoon would have already considered it and checked it out, as if you are so much more "in the know" then all those who have actually TRIED any investigative research using ANY impartial not Government connected resources. NOOO we haven't thought about that one weed! We were too busy working out the minutia of our next big theory! But Thanks! It will make a nice component to add as one of those "Why do you think" come backs.

If you got something to say then BACK IT UP. If you got an Idea, don't assume you are the only one who has thought of it. If you got someone to criticize, SAVE IT! It is none of our business.



[edit on 9-9-2009 by Stylez]

reply to post by Pathos

The fact of the appearance of false witnesses, forged documents, their formation of Team B tells me they didn't have what they needed and there was an active pursuit to come up with a case. So if it were a conspiracy as you say, there were many more players involved.

As for political influence is it standard practice to exclude those that don't have political influence? To take your case, if the JFK assassination was in fact a conspiracy, could we not exclude Lee Harvey Oswald because he had no political influence?


Edited for punctuation

[edit on 9-9-2009 by NIcon]

reply to post by weedwhacker


actually, it's not working.
perps are easily identified by their evasiveness and outright denial of facts and evidence, but mostly their defence of the indefensible.

for example, "okay, they lied about the shootdown over shanksville, but that is understandable.", and, "yeah, they lied about the WMDs, but we liberated iraq from a bad dictator guy".

yeah the government has a funny way of making us look like fools. they enjoy brainwashing us with media and they can get away with just about anything really... as long as they have a cover up story for it

this is nothing new. the american government is as corrupt as they come. hell, at least in other countries the leaders are bastards and horrible, but they show the people how horrible they are. Here in america, our leaders like to act like they are good guys when in reality they are the worst human beings alive

Originally posted by NIcon
The fact of the appearance of false witnesses, forged documents, their formation of Team B tells me they didn't have what they needed and there was an active pursuit to come up with a case. So if it were a conspiracy as you say, there were many more players involved.

Not if one of the conspirators was the Vice President.

9/11 conspiracy would have had way too many people involved. Nothing would have gone unnoticed. Someone would have spoke up and said something. Its impossible to carry out a conspiracy in such a massive scale.

When it comes to creating the Iraq and Afghanistan connection (the real conspiracy), to be honest you only need four people. Since two of them were the Vice President and the CIA director, all you need to do is fudge evidence to make a connection. According to the PBS documentary I saw, Cheney pushed the CIA into finding a connect. George Tenant was eager to remain within the inner political circle, so he helped fudge the initial report to the UN. Cheney just took advantage of Tenet's eagerness. Just a few people. Just a few movable pieces.

Iraq: Bush's War
www.pbs.org...

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Pathos


"9/11 conspiracy theories are based upon one's own government conspiring to kill them. The atom bomb was developed as a means to protect not to deceive."

I don't see how you can reconcile the above statement with the statement below (taken from the last page):


"According to several of the theories, a small group of CIA agents may have been involved. That is a perfect example. Since there was only a few people involved, the possibility of a conspiracy is definitely on the table."


How could the JKF case include the possibility of the killing of an American citizen...THE American citizen, while the 911 case could not?

Originally posted by Pathos


9/11 conspiracy theories are based upon one's own government conspiring to kill them. The atom bomb was developed as a means to protect not to deceive.

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Pathos]

Know way man, Their is only ONE reason for making the atomic Bomb and keeping it a big secret, You might have heard of "Lise Meitner" the woman who figured out the mathmatical equation of Oto Hans Chemistry problem that when done by an atomic physisist made it possible to make einsteins E=MC2 the physical equivalent of an attack so huge it would have any country on its knees for us.

Defense would have been giving the Japanese a demonstration out in the ocean off there shores. An attack is to punish them in an atomic over kill we wanted to keep secret from all those bleeding hearts who think the Government is some group of boy scouts eating apple pie and singing the star spangled banner while stabbing us in the back.

Originally posted by Pathos


9/11 conspiracy would have had way too many people involved. Nothing would have gone unnoticed. Someone would have spoke up and said something. Its impossible to carry out a conspiracy in such a massive scale.

Ha ha that's just IT pathos NOTHING is going un noticed, it is just being ignored or derailed by Government zombies who don't seem to notice the big conspiracy was covered up. Just because some out there need a colonoscopy to get there ideas we haven't figured this out yet, at least the part they have already been busted about, isn't our fault we can't keep them from being indichted and convicted and imprisoned.

It is people like YOU keeping justice at bay.

Happy?

The 9/11 truth seeker stuff is full of crazy loons that are far on the left wing who don't look at facts at all and believe bizarre insane looney conspiracies.They are trying to get in politics now...They are very radcial loons..

reply to post by Pathos

It may only take four people as you say, but it's funny in a historical kind of way why they would then in fact bother to send extraneous pieces around the globe looking for connections. Were they not aware that this possibly could expose their plot?