Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

reply to post by The_Zomar


You should get your facts straight before posting, Zomar. No one claimed that the steel "melted"; what happens is that steel weakens considerably far below its melting point and this, coupled with damage caused by the aircraft impacts, led to collapse as the remaining columns could not support the structure.

Continuing from Judicial watch timeline and pathos education into what really happened
from here
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The All Republican Shadow Government is initiated.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d8d78772a67e.jpg[/atsimg]

Keep in mind pathos ALL of this sounds like the stuff of great conspiracy yet no one even had time to construct such a sordid and corrupt fable. THIS STUFF happened THAT DAY asnd that day we got answeres. We just weren't allowed to know until Judicial watch got the details.

PROPAGANDA NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

SEE BELOW:


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/82370c921d5e.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/143d6abb0782.jpg[/atsimg]


Minds made up about attacking IRAQ That very day!
Pathos doesn't want to be confused with the FACTS:

See Below:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e303a65599b0.jpg[/atsimg]

More evidence we shot down the plane that if it had landed may very well have had the answeres that would have convicted Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Dufus GWB

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/16e8d52873a7.jpg[/atsimg]

MORE PROOF our Government was not only involved,

They weren't even interested

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cc1d9af629f7.jpg[/atsimg]

Pathos you got some splainin ta dooo

Hey Pathos, first of all we must agree that 9/11 was a conspiracy. The definition of conspiracy is "an act of joining in secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement."

mw1.merriam-webster.com...

so where we differ from you is whose conspiracy it actually was. there are facts backing up the 9/11 truth movement, whereas the government has not given facts to back up there side of the story. and the 9/11 truth facts can easily be found. just google it.

Originally posted by Pathos
Wait a minute. I just noticed that some of you 'believers' are not from the United States. Your giving us a lecture about how you feel about our country? Whow! Slow down here. What?!?!

Now I am wondering if Americans are being influenced by other nations. Since the French, Netherlands, and other countries says it was a conspiracy, the events of 9/11 were a conspiracy?

Hmmm.... Are other nations injecting their beliefs on American citizens, and are they trying to create a wedge between its people and government (on this issue)?

I think I stumbled onto a new dynamic. It did not dawn on me to check where some of you are coming from. Was it not the French who first speculated on 9/11 being a possible conspiracy?

Huh... Now I understand what had happened. My fellow Americans have to wake up and take notice. Citizens from other nations are trying to create a wedge between you and some of your leaders and citizens.

Not only do I think 9/11 happened without it being a conspiracy, but I am now viewing the internet with a different set of eyes. Some (to possibly several) of you guys are being influenced by foreign citizens from other countries.

The Netherlands and Taiwan? What type of agenda do you guys have?

You guys need to be very-very cautious in what you read online.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

So now you are trying to use a red herring argument to add an irrelevant topic into the discussion and claim that foreign countries are spreading "conspiracies" to divide those who don't believe in the official story.

I believe you should be very-very cautious of what you watch in T.V. and hear from political figures.

I have to do some research. I am beginning to wonder if the 9/11 conspiracy theory has foreign origins, and the internet allowed it to grow into something bigger. I am also heading to the college library on Monday, so I can cross reference psychology books about the long term impact of the internet (on nations). Maybe I should check sociology books as well. I will have to research offline references. Hmm...



[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Pathos


In my mind 911 was an orchestrated plot by factions of the world elite to use as a tool for a hidden agenda that we have only just scraped the surface of on these boards.

Like you i don't think George bush had any knoledge of the events of that day and neither did 99% of the government you and many others think actually run the country.

To truly understand why 911 happened you must go back hundreds of years, and understand that the world you perceive is nothing like the one you live in.

Your post only informs me you know very little about true world history. Its all there if you care to open your eyes, but sadly many people are blind.

When you take into consideration all the facts surrounding 911 the only rational solution to be realized is the official story is a lie.

here are a small collection of documentaries to get you started on your journey. i suggest you watch and read as much material as you can, 20% of it will be nonsense 30% pure speculation but the balance is what is really happening in our world.



Watch

watch

watch

watch

watch

watch

watch

watch

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by BlackOps719
Do us all a big favor and point out ANY case in the history of the entire physical world where a gas line explosion or propane based heating system exploded and caused an entire skyscraper to collapse....AT FREE FALL SPEED.


Then I will show you the episode where the coyote builds an ACME jetpack and whizzles off into space to get an early jump on the approaching road runner

What I love about the official story goons......they have no regard for basic science or the universal laws of physics....whatsoever.

Speaking of no regard for basic science or the universal laws of physics, the buildings did not collapse at "freefall speed."
There is no evidence of demolition of the buildings in spite of many posted videoframes with highlights, circles, and cryptic colored lines.

except the FACTS prove otherwise.

yes they all collapsed at near freefall speed... a physical impossibility unless it was a CONTROLLED DEMO.

And YES, there is overwhelming EVIDENCE of CONTROLLED DEMOLITION.

so what government agency did you slither here from.................

I think what people are reading and finding online is rewriting world history. As a result of being exposed to foreign countries, without borders, the American paradigm has been heavily influenced by external elements. This could be very dangerous.

Originally posted by Pathos
I have to do some research. I am beginning to wonder if the 9/11 conspiracy theory has foreign origins, and the internet allowed it to grow into something bigger. I am also heading to the college library on Monday, so I can cross reference psychology books about the long term impact of the internet (on nations). Maybe I should check sociology books as well. I will have to research offline references. Hmm...



[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

I do the very research you are talking about pathos, in fact one of my employers a Christian think tank funded by the late DR. Esty chair for the General Assemby of the Presbyterian Church in America commisioned a study on forums just like this one. I researched one on online gaming for several years, sexual predators also and one on telemarketing scams that was featured on 20/20 where I testified for states evidence to convict this and two more men Christopher Livanos, and Joseph Pertersen of American Arcade and amusment. Livanos is now serving time again for securities fraud after being on parole some people just never learn.

www.ftc.gov... back when the internet was just getting started.

Perhaps I can assist you. I even have the Business licenses of one of the defendants still in my posession as a memento of three years work.

I agree with you about the need for more research but it sounds like you are looking for reasons the internet has caused some kind of nation wide delusions where our judgement is suffering said delusions by the internet

I tell you what pathos, I have in my posession the pdf of the judicial watches investigation tmeline and I know you can't get it unless a member of websites hosting it. It is rather large but it is by far the most detailed most comprehensively compiled data from FOIA documents to who said what and when, photos and all for you if you'd like me to email it to you or perhaps ATS would host it as I know they do not have this either.

Up to you



[edit on 5-9-2009 by Stylez]

reply to post by Pathos


Yes it is sick.

We don't want to cry about it, we want YOU to stop crying about how awful it would be, take this seriously, and then do something about it. You could not find a "logical" way to approach this thread but this thread makes no logical point. Ad hom is technically a logical fallacy, and so therefore is just calling us grotesque, etc. It isn't scientific or quantifiable.

But of course you should know that, being so much smarter than us to reach your conclusions so much more firmly.

reply to post by pteridine


Actually the 911 commission report says just that. Reports, pictures,and thermal images of molten iron.

What's the opposite of Truther? Liar?

You can't settle the truth of what someone might have done by simply saying you don't believe they would do it. That kind of "a priori" argument doesn't fly with human behavior. Someone did it, so it is within the scope of human nature to do terrible things. There is no reason to believe dark skinned people from elsewhere are any more inherently evil than powerful white guys. We clearly haven't given a second thought to slaughtering over a million people in Iraq and Afghanistan. What is the distinction between killing "people" and killing "Americans"? We all look the same on the operating table or in the morgue.

So it comes down to looking at the evidence. When you get down to that level the case is overwhelming that elements within our own government in fact did it.

hey guys i'm new to this but i'll post up my website on youtube i've got some great vids for you guys to have a look at, illuminati, 9/11 vids, videos which i have produced and made myself come and check them out!!!!
www.youtube.com...

Here is a link to one of them!!!!

Welcome to the Network

www.youtube.com...

Never thought i'd say this especially about Skadi, but this may be perhaps the best response in this thread.

And here i thought a plane hugger wasn't capable of such eloquence.

hehe

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Pathos...an apt name.

People such as yourself worry me more than 100 Bin ladens. Its folks with a blind knee jerk mentality to anything that might cause you to pause that get people like Hitler, Ahamedinejhad, and Franco the jobs we remember them for.

You also attack a an idea that you are clearly ignorant of. Judging by your posts, you obviously have no clue about alot of what you attack, you attack out of sheer blind ignorance. That is not the mindset of an individual who is very conscious of the world beyond his own.

I did not suspect a conspiracy in 9/11 simply because I had nothing better to do, nor did it start by Youtube browsing or conspiracy site trolling. Youtube did not exist then. It really started from reading the own words and accounts of the very powers and entitites you so rabidly trust and defend, and starting to notice first inconsistancies, then blatant lies. In otherwords, I just watched and read the news. Conspiracy sites came a year later.

If you do not find the following, at the very least, worth of further investigation:

FBI ordering their field agents to stop tailing the 9/11 hijackers a few months before the attacks, even though the field agents were worried that the suspects were coming close to something big

Intelligence warnings from allies, with specifics even, which were at first denied by the Bush administration, then admitted. Even actor James Wood, a week before the attacks, watched said hijackers doing a dry run on the very flight that would hit WTC 1. he reported this to the authorities, yet nothing was noted or passed on.

Heavy involvement by the Pakistani intelligence agency, which has extremely strong ties to the CIA. This includes wire transfers of large amounts of money to the hijackers

Flight 77 hijack confirmed for almost 40 minutes after two planes hit the WTC, yet no interceptor jets scrambled, no evacuations in washington D.C. no alerts given, no measures taken

Large debris field from flight 93, plus passenger phone call, suggesting breakup in mid air and possible shoot down

Why five Israeli men with faked passports were arrested on 9/11, taking pictures and celebrating the death and destruction in the towers, yet quietly released and deported afterwords without incident or follow up

Why the 9/11 commission declared the weird increase in put options (bets that the price of a stock will go down, in effect) in United and American Airlines, to be "innocuous".

Why building 7 collapsed, even though it wasn't hit by a plane.

Why 2 trillion dollars in the Pentagon's coffers went unaccounted for not long before the attacks

Why the Air Force was tied up in an exercise simulating the very events that ended up happening

Why the Bush administration had many pages of information regarding the Saudis blacked out for the 9/11 commission.

...then, well, you would make the world's worst fraud/criminal investigator.


These are all facts and questions presented to us by the media and government themselves, not tinfoil-hat wearing geeks in basements. And these are right off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Pathos
I have to do some research. I am beginning to wonder if the 9/11 conspiracy theory has foreign origins, and the internet allowed it to grow into something bigger. I am also heading to the college library on Monday, so I can cross reference psychology books about the long term impact of the internet (on nations).

What is "long-term" when the internet has only been popular even here in the US (where it was invented!) since the early/mid 90's?

Pathos, when was the last time you figured out something by yourself and not having to reference a big thick manual written by people who have trouble lifting their noses 5 inches out of a book? I suppose you wouldn't know where to begin, would feel helpless and conclude something along the lines of it being impossible to figure anything out with the help of "experts," who are so much different and more intelligent than any other type of human being. Maybe you just live in a bigger city or something where no one has time to learn practical things for themselves and you're just very dependent upon having to trust the things people say, rather than understand them intuitively yourself?

You know what a "sheep" is, and why "sheep" is constantly used as a derogatory term, right? You understand what values are being reflected by not being a "sheep"? Not just non-comformity but psychological independence, confidence in the strength and ability of your own mind. You just have to know how to use it, not just take the word of people you don't even know as holy writ. I'm not saying you can't do that if you want, I'm just saying you aren't using your own head for anything but interpreting the letters and words.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by Pathos
Wait a minute. I just noticed that some of you 'believers' are not from the United States. Your giving us a lecture about how you feel about our country? Whow! Slow down here. What?!?!

Now I am wondering if Americans are being influenced by other nations. Since the French, Netherlands, and other countries says it was a conspiracy, the events of 9/11 were a conspiracy?

Hmmm.... Are other nations injecting their beliefs on American citizens, and are they trying to create a wedge between its people and government (on this issue)?

I think I stumbled onto a new dynamic. It did not dawn on me to check where some of you are coming from. Was it not the French who first speculated on 9/11 being a possible conspiracy?

Huh... Now I understand what had happened. My fellow Americans have to wake up and take notice. Citizens from other nations are trying to create a wedge between you and some of your leaders and citizens.

Not only do I think 9/11 happened without it being a conspiracy, but I am now viewing the internet with a different set of eyes. Some (to possibly several) of you guys are being influenced by foreign citizens from other countries.

You guys need to be very-very cautious.

I'm going to try to say this in the most respectful way!

If you don't have the intelligence to understand the consequences of the actions made by your hijacked country to the rest of the world after 9/11 - then your are more thick than I first thought!

The actions of the insane American Neocon Junta has affected us all!

Because of your Military Industrial Complex & Corporations and their bombs my country is flooded with Iraqi refugees that we have to pay for with our taxmoney - the USA doesn't give us a dime for that!

Your rendition flights landed in our countries!

Many of the secret torture prisons and their victims were located in our countries!

The insane PNAC agenda and the neocon administration forced our countries through economical blackmail to accept the false war on terror.

Your temporarily insane administration/puppets for the Corporations forced our countries to accept their insane agenda which brought us pesky and totalitarian surveillance laws - tapping our phones, emails, parcels, letters etc - all in the name of the phony: WAR ON TERROR! implemented after 9/11

You are delusional if you don't see and understand these new realities that are now surrounding us!

Don't you dare telling us that we don't have the rights to be interested in one of the biggest con & crimes perpetrated in modern history! - which started with the awful & terrible tragedy of 9/11 2001 - It has affected the daily lives of all of us in our countries god damn it!

In the name of all the destroyed families and all the innocent women & children who have been killed by your corrupted Corporations/Politicans and the evil Military Industrial Complex and their bombs I would say:

Be ashamed of your ignorance!

Please go back and watch the video: 'Apology of an Economic Hitman' - and maybe you learn something from the real world beside all the the propaganda you have been indoctrinated with!

I'll pray for your soul!


[edit on 5-9-2009 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by Stylez

READ EM AND WEAP AGAIN

......OUR INTELLIGENCE

My irony meter just asploded....

Well, this is typical of troofers, I guess......

reply to post by Chevalerous


Starred! Couldn't have said it better myself, man.

Originally posted by Chevalerous

If you don't have the intelligens.......

.....to spell intelligence correctly, then you shouldn't be talking about other people.

That was quick. I just barely had time to unpack my back-up irony meter, and it asploded too.....

Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by Pathos
I have to do some research. I am beginning to wonder if the 9/11 conspiracy theory has foreign origins, and the internet allowed it to grow into something bigger. I am also heading to the college library on Monday, so I can cross reference psychology books about the long term impact of the internet (on nations). Maybe I should check sociology books as well. I will have to research offline references. Hmm...

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

I do the very research you are talking about pathos, in fact one of my employers a Christian think tank funded by the late DR. Esty chair for the General Assemby of the Presbyterian Church in America commisioned a study on forums just like this one. I researched one on online gaming for several years, sexual predators also and one on telemarketing scams that was featured on 20/20 www.ftc.gov... back when the internet was just getting started.

Perhaps I can assist you. I even have the Business licenses of one of the defendants still in my posession as a memento of three years work.

I agree with you about the need for more research but it sounds like you are looking for reasons the internet has caused some kind of nation wide delusions where our judgement is suffering said delusions by the internet

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Stylez]

Think about it this way. The internet did help Obama to obtain $1 million dollars in untraceable donations. If you are an American (British) citizen, I can sure use your help. Why would I include British citizens? Since many of the psychologists out there are European born, he or she might be able to get information quickly. We can cross reference their findings offline in the United States. Credibility would be from finding their American counterparts.

What we have to find offline (with possible online connections) is:
(1) Psychology references that define the impact of external elements on the individual. I will also have to look at some textbooks from several classes I took to get specific psychologists. (Adolescent Psychology, General, Humanist, etc...)

(2) Sociology references that have case studies of smaller elements in the environment that cause larger changes within societies.

(3) Look for anything within psychology, sociology, and science that supports or disproves environmental influences (specifically internet) on individual lives.

(4) Keep a close record of reference sources. You want to find case studies, essays, and other credible documents from professional individuals. Wikipedia and others like it are not allowed. Note page numbers, date of publication, authors, etc...

(5) We need to find the original online story to the first conspiracy theory of 9/11. We need to know who made it, who owns the site, and where are they from. Find out if they have any political leanings.

(6) Good luck.

When the library is open on Monday, I will start with my research. Anyone else who wants to help find offline resources, American or Britain, please feel free to do so. We need credible information. Find newspapers clippings, etc...

Our goal is to prove or disprove:
(1) the 9/11 conspiracy theory as being or not being psychologically connected to a foreign element.

(2) the 9/11 conspiracy theory being connected to a foreign or domestic political party.

(3) the 9/11 conspiracy theory being influenced by pure speculation, which came from an uninformed individual.


[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]