Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Pathos

 

"Our government" orchestrated pearl harbor. Research it and see for yourself.

Then if you can't admit that don't bother with 911 ever again, you'll just be unable to reach an unbiased conclusion.

Our government provoked Pearl Harbor, but they did not orchestrate the event. As a result of poking around, we were caught off guard by a sneak attack.

We were not caught off guard by the attack. We knew it was going to happen, and was informed of the Japanese fleet heading to Hawaii three times. We could have at least been ready for it.
And yes, we did prod the Japanese into attack, and then we didn't have the troops ready for the attack.
So yes by knowing full manipulation there was orchestration.

I agree.

Personally, I'm glad the OP posted this thread. I am still on the fence here.

As someone who has taken the oath, I feel sick to think my country could have a hand in this.
I was still active then, when it happened, I threw on my uniform and drove straight to the base. We sat and watched it all day, wanting to blow the hell out of anyone who did this.

Maybe it's denial, I don't know. But it scares me to even consider that this is true.

I guess, sometimes, I don't want to take the red pill.

00.02

First off, I would like to say that I do not consider myself a " Truther", or any other name you would like to put on people's opinions. Also I would like to say I do not believe the entire official story . I have just recently (4 or 5 months ago) started to look into the events that took place before, during , and after 9-11 . So if you don’t mind may I ask you (Pathos) some questions ? Also if there is anyone other than (Pathos) who feels they can answer my questions with respect and common courtesy please feel free.

( This is in no way a shot at you, I am only asking because you started this topic and I need some of the things you said explained.)

1. (Pathos) Do you believe the official story 100% line for line?

2. You said

Once Wikipedia is entered as evidence, the whole logic behind everyone's 9/11 conspiracies are lost.

Are you saying that nothing on Wikipedia can be used as logical evidence. Can you not use Wikipedia for logical evidence at all or is it just with 9-11?

3. In your opinion how come they found Saddam in a hole underground and still have not found the person they said planed the whole thing Osama?

4. In your opinion why did Osama plan 9-11 when the bush family and his were good friends ?

5.

Interviewer: OK. So on September the 11th, in 2001, what hit the Pentagon?

General Stubblebine: I don't know exactly what hit it, but I do know, from the photographs that I have analyzed and looked at very, very carefully, it was not an airplane.

You said

Using your own reference, the evidence that support a conspiracy is junk. I saw the events with my own two eyes, and I saw planes plow into buildings.

You guys have nothing.

Could you please show me this video of planes plowing into the pentagon? Was the plane that hit the pentagon on the same channel that Bush had seen the first plane hit the tower on 9-11 (I say the pentagon because that’s what you were commenting on)

7. You said

So, you are all physics experts with a Doctrine's degree? You know how architecture is affected by an airplane crash?
So, you guys know how an airplane comes apart from hitting a building at high-speeds?

If the planes did bring down the north and south tower how would you explain WTC7 falling also?



Thank you

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by Societalgnorance
To the OP : You need to come to terms with reality.

Think about 9/11 with an unbiased mind and theres only one conclusion. Stop fighting yourself and all of the propaganda thats been beat into your head since a small child and come up with your own educated, unbiased opinion.

My opinion is based upon 300 years of United States history. I think this is one sick and twisted conspiracy.

I think that expressions of disdain for questioning the government is a crime against america's children, perpetrated by people who hold opinions like the one you have.

-rrr

Are human beings capable of murder for profit and power? I would say the answer is yes. Are Americans human beings? I will go out a limb and answer yes.

Cui bono? Who benefits from endless war?

he Carlyle Group
The Carlyle Group

Jun 26th 2003
From The Economist print edition

ON the day Osama bin Laden's men attacked America, Shafiq bin Laden, described as an estranged brother of the terrorist, was at an investment conference in Washington, DC, along with two people who are close to President George Bush: his father, the first President Bush, and James Baker, the former secretary of state who masterminded the legal campaign that secured Dubya's move to the White House. The conference was hosted by the Carlyle Group, a private equity firm that manages billions of dollars, including, at the time, some bin Laden family wealth. It also employs Messrs Bush and Baker.

In the immediate aftermath of the attacks, when no one was being allowed in or out of the United States, many members of the bin Laden family in America were spirited home to Saudi Arabia. The revival of defence spending that followed greatly increased the value of the Carlyle Group's investments in defence companies. …

Listen to this wild eyed extremist!

you hit the nail on the head randy... like I've always said about people like this pathos character who believe the OS...

They've either done little or no research, can't comprehend it or are in denial.

Brainwashed is an even better word.

Most refuse to accept that they've been deceived so badly and so blatantly by their own government, so they hate anyone that shatters this fantasy and illusionary world that their ego has been brainwashed to believe.

Whats being revealed is extremely uncomfortable to ones ego. So of course its ones own ego defense mechanism kicking in when their concept of truth is shown to be a LIE.

Another reason most can't believe it, is simply because this conspiracy is SO BLATANT and right in front of their faces.

For several years, I accepted the official story because the media said so and I thought I even SAW real visual evidence of it. Little did i realize early on how manipulated that "evidence" was.

The only ones who believe the official story and evidence, are those who have never examined it properly.

And the perpetrators never foresaw the technology they used to pull off the hoax, would be used against them to expose it.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Pathos

 

I am not sure if some of you get off on this debate. I do not understand how a person could blame a sitting US President for killing 2,000+ of his own citizens. I find it revolting, grotesque, and freakish

you're not going to be very good at this. you can't even get the
first fact rigfht, even in rounded form. over 3000 would be correct as an estimate.
if you only knew how much i wish i could be like you.politicians that don't
lie, commit treason by lying to congres to wage war. you don't even know
these people you think so highly of.
here let me give you a clue

BRAINWASHED

is a good place for you to start sir. accept this as a possibility for yourself.
and go from there.



[edit on 4-9-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by BlackOps719

Originally posted by Pathos
Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

Out of all the topics that can be found here, I find the 9/11 boards to be very disturbing.


[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

You should find it disturbing, because it is very much real and most likely one of the most proven truths that you will find on this site.

There is an overwhelming mountain of evidence that contradicts almost every detail of the official story line.

I couldnt have said it better.

and indeed, ignorance is bliss.




[edit on 5-9-2009 by Orion7911]

Now let me explain how we know that 9/11 was False Flag Attack.

1) It's impossible for two separate airliners to bring down three separate skyscrapers. It's as simple as 1+1=2. No tinfoil hat required.

2) The first attack on the WTC in 1993 was an inside job. In fact the
explosives were provided by an FBI informant as part of a terror sting operation. The FBI informant kept going back to the FBI and explaining
that there was indeed a plan to carry out the attacks. He kept telling the FBI that the attack was going to happen, but the FBI didn't stop it.

3)The ex-prime minister of Italy was himself admittedly involved in government-sponsored terrorism(Operation Gladio) against his own people before 9/11 and said the following:

Intel Agencies Know 9/11 An Inside Job

This was first published in Italy's oldest and most respected newspaper. It was then covered in English on Prison Planet.

www.prisonplanet.com...

4) Danish scientist Niels Harrit with others(John Joseph Granier, B.S.M.E., M.S.M.E., etc.) found THE IRREFUTABLE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE:

Nano-thermite was found in the WTC rubble. Nano-thermite is not naturally occurring and can not be magically created by a series airplanes crashing into skyscrapers or by the fusing of elements in a building, as a result of fires and other explosions. Nano-thermite has only been around for a very few years. It is difficult to make and created in military labs. It has to be engineered through the use of nanotechnology.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Pathos


You sir, are a prime example of what I have experienced in talking w/ many people. The general population firmly holds to the belief that no person or government could be so twisted and "evil" ( which in this case, translates to greed) to commit such an atrocity.
They tend to focus on one, and only one aspect of this horrors and if that can be explained reasonably, all is well with them and the "truthers" are just a bunch of loons. Please set back and do not be as closed minded, or one dimension-able as many other obtuse people. Look at the simple facts of the whole scenario;
Why did all three buildings turn to dust? This has never happened before in recorded history. More importantly, according to the clip, the softening agent was jet fuel which caused the steel to lose it's integrity but could it travel down 96 floors and drench ALL of the weight baring columns? To say nothing of Building 7 that had no jet fuel OR trauma. It's unexplainable by the Purdue clip.

Why are there explosions throwing out chunks of building 30 stories below the collapsing top sections? Purdue clip didn't touch this HUGE fact.

Physics, no structure can fall at freefall speed regardless of the trauma induced upon it. I repeat, the sheer mass of lower of the building alone would heavily impact its rate of decent. The silly little Purdue clip doesn't address this factoid.

I can go on about the whole picture taking in the many FACTS, as opposed to one small aspect. Please sir if nothing else do not be one of the sadly uninformed and allow your TV or main stream media to tell you what you should think and what the "facts" are relating to HUGE matters concerning your own well being.

Originally posted by Pathos
I am not sure if some of you get off on this debate. I do not understand how a person could blame a sitting US President for killing 2,000+ of his own citizens. I find it revolting, grotesque, and freakish.

If I am correct, I think that most of the 'truthers' did not blamed the sitting US President personally for killing 2,000+ of his own citizens for it, but sorely his strange behavior in it all, they are however convinced that 911 was not executed the way and by whom the government claimed it was done.

It’s no doubt that because of all the available evidence, or more precisely the lack of certain decisive evidence, that all the indicators pointing out to people/powers from within the USA and not outside it.

Originally posted by Pathos
I keep asking myself "What type of human being do you have to be in order to believe 9/11 is a conspiracy?" After pondering this question for a few days, I concluded that there is something seriously wrong with some of you.

It are people who want that the truth must come out, no matter how painful and mind blowing it would be, and not be fooled with such pack of lies, so there is nothing wrong with those people.

Originally posted by Pathos
What you 'truthers' lack is a shred of humanity.

That’s your opinion, nothing more.

Originally posted by Pathos
Enjoy the above two clips. Maybe you will learn something.

I saw already many of the 911 clips and never ever enjoyed them, but they give me the information for why I am convinced that it was an inside job.



[edit on 5/9/09 by spacevisitor]

The supposed "proof" behind 9/11 is feeble. Much of it are statements taken out of context after the fact, or comments about affects of the actual plane crashes, that were unprecedented, and ergo, had unprecedented results. But you can ignore all that if you are forming a conspiracy theory.

A random list of things I have witnessed regarding 9/11 in random order would be:

Dumbing down of terrorist capabilities. If you are a truther, they are not the most advanced terrorist group that is funded by a leader with millions of $$$, they are "cavemen with box cutters." Apparently it's impossible to hijack a plane with a sharp object, and obviously, terrorists are too stupid to fly planes. This is always guesswork, they can't possibly know that, but they act as if they know this is fact.

Anything said after is definitive proof! If someone says missile (when talking about how a plane is used as a missile), it MEANS missile! Clearly our top leadership are so incredibly stupid and naive, they would admit this sort of thing to the press. It's IMPOSSIBLE for them to say or be taken out of context, if you are a truther. Simply because anything said that can be used as fodder to fuel their agenda, must be used.

The ironic fact that truthers each are 100% that their theory is correct. However, ironically enough, their own theories vary to a great degree. The plane that hit the Pentagon, if you are a truther, is either: A missile, an explosion set off the moment the real plane flew over the Pentagon (which no one saw fly away), a different plane, there was NO plane, etc.

Ignoring witnesses that don't support your truther claims. It's funny, for the Pentagon plane, many people said they watched the flight slam into the side of the Pentagon. But apparently, they were ALL WRONG! Heck, they even questioned them after the fact to prove it. Well.. not quite less than half. Apparently it doesn't matter if you question only part of them, it proves they are all wrong. And if any did say they actually saw the event happen, they are dismissed as liars, duped, etc. I've even seen it said that it was a magic trick... they were fooled ala David Copperfield.

But on the other hand, if you have a handful of witnesses that said they saw the plane flying on a different path, it means without a doubt, it was a conspiracy! Because their witnesses are not as big as liarheads or ignorant fools as the others. Not sure how that works, but that's what they believe.

Ignore the experts! That's important, I think, if you are a truther. Because clearly the folks here are engineering, structural, explosive, etc... experts. One and all. Yet for some reason, when experts with 10 or 20 years in their respective fields say "This is what happened," they ignore them. Either they are liars, payed off by the government, or again, stupider than our experts here.

It's pretty simple. A real conspiracy theorist can take a single small event and blow it vastly out of proportion. We've seen it time and again. Now, take an event that is much larger, with hundreds of events, many of them unique and unprecidented.... and man, it's a field day for the theorists!

Finally, there is no point arguing with them. It doesn't matter what you say or prove, they will ignore it. If you had the top 100 engineers, top 100 explosives experts, etc... all study this together in great detail, and claim it came down just as you saw it, every single truther would say they are lying or wrong, guaranteed. There is NO arguing with them. It's impossible in the extreme to make them see any other viewpoint, so there is no point in trying.

P.S. You'll probably be called a disinfo agent for your orginal post.

So, what people are saying it that the smoking gun to the 9/11 conspiracy is what happened to the Pentagon.

CNN Memorial Names By Flight and Location

The American Airlines Flight 77 Washington, DC

The Washington Post: Sacred Grounds

The Passengers and Crew of Flight 77

All those names are fake?

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by jonny2410

Originally posted by OldDragger
Oh boy! You did it now!
You challenged THE BELIVERS!
Notice how often that word comes up in those threads?
Your gonna be told of THE TRUTH told to WAKE UP, that you just are too freaked out by the thought of THE GOVERNMENT doing such a thing.
These folks are as dogmatic as theycome, they hold to their beliefs as does the fundamentalist, they pore endlessly over THE EVIDENCE and must spend days on YouTube doing REASEARCH.
As with all dogmatists, it's really useless to attempt to reason with this crowd. They know stuff you don't, they have evolved beyond the rest of us simpletons, they BELIEVE!!!!!

This is the best post of the damn thread, even the damn fricking day.

After all it for people to accept the fact that a few odd terrorists carried out the attacks would be far to boring, no like all the "truthists", lets call it an inside job...

oh right, shame on us critical thinkers and researchers who use common sense, question our government and demand supporting evidence before we accept something as truth and fact.

Oh and of course, lets go over a FEW of the stupid reasons too innocuous to be suspect and worthy of questioning.

but sure,,, we should have all just ignored the hundreds if not thousands of flaws, discrepencies, and contradictions to the OCT. We should just ignore that Bush claimed to have seen the first impact on TV before he entered the classroom even though the first impact was never shown on TV til several days later. We should just ignore that the hole in the pentagon was too small and damage too little for a 90 ton jet to fit into let alone flight 77,,, or that the parking lot pentagon video's have missing frames and show evidence of tampering, or that the FDR's were tampered with and don't match up to the real flight path NOC. Or that there's nothing unusual about the Feds showing up within minutes and confiscating all video from any and all camera's in the area that would have shown what if anything hit the pentagon which the tapes they released DIDN'T... we should just ignore the fact that our pres, gov and military claimed to have never imagined terrorists flying planes into the twin towers even though on that very day its now a fact they were in the middle of a "mach" exercise of the exact scenario that happened (gee what a coincidence do you think?). we should just ignore and see nothing unusual of all the video fakery in the so called live footage fed to the world by the MSM now PROVEN beyond a doubt by Sept Clues. We should just ignore as coincidence that many of the hi-jackers have shown up Alive. Or that there's nothing unusual that the ONLY remains from the planes was one of the "hi-jackers" passports having fell out of his pocket and then being magically found by some "anonymous" person at the WTC even though an entire 90 ton jet plane and its passengers were vaporized in temperatures that were so hot they melted steel, pulverized and turned to dust 2 110 story modern steel reinforced skyscrapers that its architect said could easily with-stand impacts from commerical jets (oh btw, he died under mysterious conditions soon after 911... but thats nothing unusual either is it?.
We should just ignore that there were explosions going off in all 3 towers before, during and after the impacts, ignore the clear squibs and charges as the tower fell into its footprint which several professional demolition companys agreed was an obvious controlled demolition, and ignore that wtc7 wasn't hit by any plane yet came down in an even more perfect controlled demolition. Lets ignore that several news crews and the BBC reported WTC7 collapsed 20 minutes before it did. Or that the owners of the WTC LARRY S is on record admitting they had to PULL the building which anyone with a brain knows would take WEEKS if not months to PLAN. Lets ignore and say there's nothing unusal about the WTC powering down a week before 911 and no big deal that MARVIN BUSH was in charge of SECURITY for the WTC. Nothing unusal about all the debris and crime scene being hauled off to asia immediately after 911 without any examination or investigation on it to study more about why one of the greatest steel structures ever designed is the only structures to ever "collapsed" due to fire.

Gee, what was i thinking? Its so obvious its NOT a conspiracy.

anyone else like to continue?

Originally posted by Pathos
So, what people are saying it that the smoking gun to the 9/11 conspiracy is what happened to the Pentagon.

CNN Memorial Names By Flight and Location

The American Airlines Flight 77 Washington, DC

The Washington Post: Sacred Grounds

The Passengers and Crew of Flight 77

All those names are fake?

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

For me there is no discussion needed for such a question, let all of them rest in peace.

I have no doubt in my mind that they were in fact all victims of that immense tragedy, but again not due the way the government claims they were.

The big problem of in this case the Pentagon attack, is in my opinion the lack of enough solid decisive evidence of a real crashed Boeing 757.

reply to post by js331975

Please read my following post on the subject then. If you disagree (with research/evidence) i would like to see why.

Here is your missing plane for Flight 77:

Pentagon Camera I
(Frame - 1:27) Visible plane nose.

Pentagon Camera II
(Frames - 0:25 to 0:26) Plane skimming the ground.

Its Pentagon surveillance footage.

Like I previously said. Its grotesque to think that people believe this was a conspiracy.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by Pathos
So, what people are saying it that the smoking gun to the 9/11 conspiracy is what happened to the Pentagon.

CNN Memorial Names By Flight and Location

The American Airlines Flight 77 Washington, DC

The Washington Post: Sacred Grounds

The Passengers and Crew of Flight 77

All those names are fake?

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

Find any bodies? One? just one? ya got any they can autopsy?

Why did the Government coerce those who listened to the contents of black box recordings vow not to mention what they heard?

Look Pathos, their is no way you can honestly say the official story , and that's what I'm going to call it a STORY, can be corroborated and many involved in the 911 commissions report have already said they lied.

Now having said that and knowing they have lied, that means QUESTIONS REMAIN! Questions YOU don't have answers to or for.

If you are like most of us who saw that tragic and horrific day, you want answers do you not? If you said yes and I am assuming you did,

THAT MAKES YOU a TRUTHER!

Until ALL the biggest questions arre answered leaving no reasonable doubt about the many curious and unanswerd questions, regarding 911, we are ALL TRUTHERS and in the spirit of knowing the truth, the whole truth and nothing BUT the truth we ask for that truth and we are committed to getting it and until we do, THERE is no such thing as a skeptic or debunker their can only be truthers. So watch what you lable us and in what context you make those lables because unless YOU got all the answers, you ain't no better than those you call grotesque.

reply to post by Stylez
See the post above yours.

Originally posted by spacevisitor

I have no doubt in my mind that they were in fact all victims of that immense tragedy, but again not due the way the government claims they were.

The big problem of in this case the Pentagon attack, is in my opinion the lack of enough solid decisive evidence of a real crashed Boeing 757.

Excellent point, you should also mention the 20fps CCTV camera caught it all going on at the pentagon, on tape.

If TPTB wanted it to be released and the truth to be known, they would have released THAT on 9/12/2001 and people would have seen for themselves, whether it was or not.

It is demonstrated clearly, they do not want this. As to why, your guess is as good as mine... not another reichstag fire i hope.


A

Reposting this again.
Here is your missing plane for Flight 77:

Pentagon Camera I
(Frame - 1:27) Visible plane nose.

Pentagon Camera II
(Frames - 0:25 to 0:26) Plane skimming the ground.

Its Pentagon surveillance footage.

Like I previously said. Its grotesque to think that people believe this was a conspiracy.