Ladies and Gentlemen, the 2nd American Civil War is upon you.

Ah yes a perfect world with two sides ...yes?
Sounds so simple to me with every one with a point of view.
I say let all the meat eaters consume all vegetarians then all life will become some sort of equilibrium.
No! let the vegetarians eat all the plants!
Then whats left?
Dirt,worms, you?
What side are you on?
Who cares?

Well, there won't be civil war, or even much civil disobedience. People are hurting and need work. People like me and others are building businesses and creating jobs. I suggest you do the same, and forget about wars.

The best thing about the internet is that it is teaching more people to type. lol

Originally posted by Janitor From Mars
I didn't realize that a moderator had started the thread.

Regardless, what gives?

"What gives" is that you didn't get any warning for anything you posted on this thread.

"What gives" is that you know that already, from the automated U2U you received when you got the warning for whatever it was you posted.

"What gives" is an apparent deliberate attempt to disrupt this thread, because you know full well that whatever happened is nothing to do with the thread, or me.

Now, are you a big enough person to admit that, or not?

[edit on 5/9/09 by neformore]

reply to post by neformore


nefermore, I think the election of Obama is an indicator of your premise.

He and his crew were computer/internet/technology canny, and they made the most out of it.

Therefore, I think your premise is very insightful and clearly intuitive.

Hearts and minds. And misinformation. And skewed perspectives. And fabrications. Lies and videotapes.

That's why I prefer the shooting wars.

Enjoy the internet while you can people, because it will change in the near future. The U.S. government views the internet as a breeding ground for "Terrorism" both international and domestic.

The promise will be to make the internet "safe" for us.
NY Times

Then it will turn into this:Vietnamese government expands internet censorship to block Catholic websites

reply to post by neformore
Thats a funny way to put it but i believe i can see why you see the internet like that.There is so much infomation on the net.There is also so much disinfomation on the net too.You can breakdown disinfomation into three different catorgorys.The first type of dis-infomation is diliberate dis-infomation put out by employees of the goverment to confuse people and send them in the wrong direction.Theres are a lot of them on the net.Then there is catorgory two.People making up fake infomation ie-made up stories to confuse people and really make things alot more difficult to research.Then there is catogory three.Sometimes people think they are doing the right thing but by accident or misrepertation they make really bad mistakes with stories.Some of the goverment and military employees may look like they have retired,been sacked or left the goverment but in fact as still employed covertly by the goverment to spread dis-infomation



[edit on 5-9-2009 by GORGANTHIUM]

[edit on 5-9-2009 by GORGANTHIUM]

reply to post by neformore


Spot on for me, S&F for you. Last week I was absolutely raging because of some blatant 'warfare' here on ATS and put a little something together, but forgot all about it until I saw your thread. Here is what I had drafted:

Internet under Siege.

For almost a year now, the internet has been under siege from agenda driven astroturfers, shills, disinfo agents, their sock puppets, spin and other propaganda methods.

Agenda driven political ranting is now commonplace on finance boards, tech blogs, alternate sites, motoring blogs, even in MMO games and almost anywhere else you can imagine.

Recently stories emerged about the internet possibly being taken over or shut down by government in times of crisis, rather than being outraged, I wondered if it would mean an end to the political tripe being vomited all over the internet and forced down everyone’s throats.

It appears that vast swathes of the internet is already under the control of the sensationalist news corporations who do the bidding of their would be kingmaker owners. The ‘new’ media has followed in the footsteps of its more traditional counterparts with relative ease and mostly unnoticed.

Whilst there are many paid shills out there, targeting specific internet sites with an agenda set by their bosses, the vast majority of these people are unfortunate victims of brainwashing by large media corporations who prey on peoples existing ignorance and fears.

Net neutrality is really a non-issue, extremely powerful people are now exerting their views across all areas of the internet at very little cost, with many ordinary people quite happy to spread their message free of charge.

I didn't get any further than that, after my mini personal rant, I felt better and forgot all about it (I have been avoiding all message boards for around a week now). For me there are three sides in this 'war' with the few people who can see what is going on becoming very irate and wishing it would all go away.


[edit on 5/9/09 by DeepCoverUK]

reply to post by neformore


"And if so, why are you fighting at all?"

I need the practice

The internet is indeed a powerful medium.

There would naturally be a fear that an online Socrates would arise to enthrall the online world with a new vision of a perfect Republic that demonizes the old. Or a digital Marx, that inspires a real world revolution.

Or what of a Confucius or Lao Tzu (Tao Te Ching)?

The reality is the internet is far more akin to Nietzsche than anything else. And perhaps that is fear in of itself. That we would all consider ourselves to be stateless in our opinion of nationality. Let alone the ideas of entropy until our eventual madness.

But the world is what you make of it. With the internet, there are far too many old world power players that wish to shape it to their ideal. Hence the battlefront that you feel Nef. Or at least that is my opinion.

reply to post by neformore


Divide and conquer.

"Never waste a crisis"

Let them make war!

Exploit to the fullest any and every opportunity to push the masses left or right, never let them develop the ability to stand firm in the center. For there is the real threat to government.

Know your place, choose a side, let that side think for you, follow the rabbit of your choice to the wonderland of your illusion.

The Obamanation is fomenting a crisis(swine flu,financial collapse,domestic terrorism??) in order to declare martial law and thus seize control of all media including the internet, since the internet is the one media outlet they do not have a majority control of.
Look back at 1930's Germany and remember Hitler was elected to office and only became a dictator after a manufactured crisis (The bombing of the German Reichstag??),after which he proceeded to implement government controls of the media. Hilter was a Socialist before he became a Dictator and a Fascist.
Reasons to do this??,they cannot hope to pass their unconstitutional laws and they will no longer have control of congress after 2010.

The secret is to stop fighting,you all live in fear,and respond out of fear.

Stop being afraid.

It is like a stray dog,the more you holler at it,the more you chase it,the more you try to catch it,the faster it runs away from you.

Fighting only feeds those who attack you.

Think about it....you create your reality,the media and educational institutions influence you to respond in certain predictable ways,according to your conditioning,in order to create the reality they enjoy.

Create your own,quit being so destructive.

It is all quite meaningless,it's just a game.

Think more,think outside the box.

When they claim to be protecting you,realise that it is the reverse,they are trying to skew your perception,your perspective,to protect themselves (media/PTB/Governments)..

We outnumber them many,many-fold,we are the stupid ones.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]

I do not seek war nor hate.
I do note seek a way that harms.
I do seek that which we can all prosper.
There is a way that does not hate...
and a way that turns a sword into a plow share.
Loves partner is Wisdom.
Many will hear of them...
Few will walk their way...

Your civil war isn't my way...nor of the one I follow.

If it doesn't end with we come in Peace, then it isn't peace at all.

Peace

[edit on 5-9-2009 by HIFIGUY]

distracting the mind is just as bad as controlling it.

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
reply to post by neformore

 

The problem stems from the fact that there are two camps that believe their way is the best way for the US. The Conservatives distrust any type of government oversight and fear taxes as if they were mustard gas falling from the sky, preferring to believe that an unrestrained society free of government intervention will lead to Utopia for all (all who care to work). The Liberals believe government oversight is the answer to individual protection and realize taxation comes with this oversight, and believe that since the government represents the populous (supposedly), it will inevitably act all of the population's interests with its laws and regulations.

Technecly that is how our government is supposed to be, our constitution is supposed to keep us from reaching either extreme, If both parties serve their purpouse things are fine, so thats not the problem, the problem is that both sides are moving towards total government, America has been involved in a power stuggle for decades now, and when the day arives when the governemnt has total power over us, that is the party that wins!

I know I am likely to come under heavy internet fire here in my home office but please don't forget the REAL WAR going on right now as we type.

The total Iraq/Afghan death count is heavily disputed and ranges from approximately 100 thousand to well over 1 million dead thus far.

Total number of American troops...

4,316 dead as of June 24, 2009. As of April 6, 2009 there were 31,102 wounded in action. Of these 9,477 required medical air transport. There were 36,106 non-hostile-related medical air transports (9,452 for non-hostile injuries, and 26,654 for diseases or other medical reasons). [30][31][32][33]

Total number of refugees...

As of November 4, 2006, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees estimated that 1.8 million Iraqis had been displaced to neighboring countries, and 1.6 million were displaced internally, with nearly 100,000 Iraqis fleeing to Syria and Jordan each month.[50]

reply to post by Leo Strauss


No fire from me, and that is most certainly not forgotten.

However, I'm talking about information warfare, not the blood and bullets kind - although oddly it can lead to that eventually.

The 2nd American Civil War, as I termed it, is an information war, not a shooting match - and I think we should all be thankful of that. Your post serves as a reminder of what happens when the talking stops.

I do fear that the information war could escalate to that scale though, if some of the rhetorical hysteria from both sides isn't toned down soon.

Originally posted by neformore
I do fear that the information war could escalate to that scale though, if some of the rhetorical hysteria from both sides isn't toned down soon.

One man's information is another's propaganda.

Have no fear of the information war escalating. There will always be a continued division. Every truth is someone else's lie, every evil is good, up is down, right is wrong.

The endless push from right and left always finds a way to balance out in the end.

Winning and losing is all a matter of perspective.

Are you looking from the right or from the left?

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Winning and losing is all a matter of perspective.

Are you looking from the right or from the left?

Is Love right or Left?

Peaec

I liked the you-tube guy yelling at his camara ,

in real life , I get alot of that when I am logical, polite , calm , and define my terms till they start calling me names and run away .

the sad news I have is that ... you are not seeing history in the moment .

harperferry is a good point of veiw .

you need to remember that political conversations were very loud and not so diffrent from now in 1860 .
leading into the presidentual eletion the very same ideas and debate was going on in 1858-1860 .

--------------------------------------

I have a sound file , I have no idea if it is real or not .
( never beleave any thing you read on the internet )
its petagry asserts that it was vidio camara in the pocket of a press-pass attendee , recorded as sarah brady , jane fonda and hilery clinton talked about a conservitive radio talk ( likly rush )host.
you can only hear one voice , and it is not clear .

the only thing important , that is not totaly exspected was in refrance to the internet , the voice said ,
" free speach is to important to leave in the hands of amatures "

it is clear what was meant , the internet is not controlled , am radio talk show hosts can be managed , but it is unexceptable the uncontrolled , loose cannon , free excersize of common people in un sensored intercourse of ideas .

may I suggest , I will defend the right of any one to say anything stupid and offensive .
I can handle myself in uncivil discord ... and let them look foolish by them self.

what I can not stand for and will attack with word and deed is the sensorship of civil ideas I don't agree with , I love making fools of the clowns , but I need clowns to make fun of.

how can you bedait a nazi , if their ideas are never heard ?
how can you point out that abortion is a medical issue , with no foundation in the constitution , or that bush put in place , what the lib/dem's agree'd with ... agreed to and supported .

how can you say to a animal rights person , children are paying the bills for what your asking , you can't have it both ways .

and the economic failure is a direct result of big goverment , tax money going to a fedaral goverment .

shut the money off and the problems go away .
change only one thing... pull the money out .

money is control , when people control their own money , the people control their lives .

its not hard to understand , its easy to see logicaly , but freedom is never easy to keep , and is easily lost to control freaks with other peoples money to spend .