Ladies and Gentlemen, the 2nd American Civil War is upon you.

I think there is superb opportuntiy developing here that might
be escaping notice. What used to be considered the far right
and far left are finding common ground. i can't believe it but
the day has come where I actually find myself agreeing with
statements made by people like Gary North and other
fundamentalist christians.

Right or Left we are all seeing
our liberties vanishing piece by piece. It's time to start
reaching across the aisle and finding our new allies because
I do agree with the OP that we are in the early stages of a
civil war. just how bad it gets is really in the control of the
federal government. If they were to decide to stay within
constitutional grounds many of us would relax our guards
and possibly decide to try to work within the system once again

reply to post by die_another_day


not much of a reader hu? The many strands of debate have been winding their way through our western civerlisation since at least egyptian times, the pamphlateers of victorian london were themselves much like the posters on forum threads - it's not about two sides, its a million strands of different debate which somehow will hopefully all tie up to create a lovely and safe world for us to live in... However at the moment most people are too scared to open their mind and consider that the first thing they thought of or whatever it was their father [figure] told them might just be nonsence.

Take part in debate, expand your mind - listen to what both sides have to say in all things, if you don't then you're just being a victim to the 'war'

Originally posted by seagull
If it's a second American civil war, I'm opting out...

These so called sides are nothing more than a contrivance by those on either "side" who seek power and position. I refuse to give them the satisfaction...

The only side I'm going to choose is my own.

I will think my own thoughts, and act as I feel I should...without regard to whether it suits one side or another.

In other words: To Hell With All Of Them...

I have to agree here. One of the reasons I hate politics is that there is too much extremism on both sides, or on any side for that matter. A lot of people in political groups think in terms of either/or, black and white. I have yet to see a well-balanced group who are not out to promote left or right wing propaganda but is out to help inform America. Of course, the problem here is what direction should we lead the people. Well, the federal government, in my opinion, is the main enemy of the people and the Constitution, therefore, we must lead in the direction of resurrecting the constitution and its powers through informing people of both the expanding shady government and ridding ourselves of these worthless Congressmen and women who are incompetent. Some are good, but a LOT of them I have found to be liars. Ex. South Carolina senator Mark Sanford who so praise, in a crusade-like way, family values - whatever that ambiguous term means.

As for the frontier, I think we must note that the internet allows us to be informed and connect with each other but it also allows the government to notice where are these "constitution praisers", these "2nd Amendment nuts", these educated minority who dare to look critical on the government! It is a two-way street. And there is no need for a secret police because the government has the convenience of watching us from afar as we help each other...from afar. You see my point? The internet separates us as it does unite us because there is nothing more better than an old-fashion, nationwide protest against the government. It is a physical act the government hates because it shows that the dumbing-down agenda isn't working or at least we've figured it out. It should spread like wildfire. Our reliance on the internet plays into their hands as it does benefits us too. And when the truth finally reveals itself, mass protest, togetherness in a realistic way (no cult-like peace, love, etc), is the key.


"The Constitution is a goddamn piece of paper." - Bush.

Is it?

reply to post by DevilJin


i wonder how many stuck in the past types spouted the same vitriol about Abe, Tomas and co when they tore down the old institutions to build a new better one?

I don't know if you head but King James was put on the throne by decree of the great lord God! It was the amazing greatness of the british aristocratic system which let brittania rule the waves! How dare these good for nothing terrorists throw away the great history of our once proud empire!!!! Gad zooks!!

Times change, it really is just a piece of paper - sure it contains some of the most important words in american history, written by some of if not THE most dramatic reformers in american history. I'm sure if they were alive today they could think up a few updates, after all the world is totally different today than it was then.

It's not just some evil people who want to kill us all that want to 'rip up' that 'bit of paper' (also known as 'move on and into a better future'), many, many rational and sensible people with no money on either horse also feel this way.

I think there are tens of thousands of dead from Gettysburg alone that would disagree with you (well, if they could communicate) in equating what's occurring now with their experiences in the real Civil War. We seem to be so willing to throw around metaphors and phrases and make comparisons that may initially inflate what we're trying to communicate, but we only end up deflating the true meaning of those words and events down the road.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by DevilJin

 

i wonder how many stuck in the past types spouted the same vitriol about Abe, Tomas and co when they tore down the old institutions to build a new better one?

I don't know if you head but King James was put on the throne by decree of the great lord God! It was the amazing greatness of the british aristocratic system which let brittania rule the waves! How dare these good for nothing terrorists throw away the great history of our once proud empire!!!! Gad zooks!!

Times change, it really is just a piece of paper - sure it contains some of the most important words in american history, written by some of if not THE most dramatic reformers in american history. I'm sure if they were alive today they could think up a few updates, after all the world is totally different today than it was then.

It's not just some evil people who want to kill us all that want to 'rip up' that 'bit of paper' (also known as 'move on and into a better future'), many, many rational and sensible people with no money on either horse also feel this way.

So, you are calling me a traditonalist? Fine. Of course time changes, but some things and code of laws are transcendent. You may want to give the government more power as that is the change that is coming and you seem to support that, but for me and others, the constitution as a "piece of paper" is the only thing we have that gives us control over our own lives.

The constitution grants us many rights that the government needs to abolish in order to expand its control, which it is so called " for the sake of national security". Government cannot grant security against both domestic terrorists and foreign terrorist without getting rid of some favorable laws of the people without bringing about drastic changes, which means people will have to give up those laws that protect their freedom, no matter how small or illusory that is, in order to give the government's more leeway to "protect" us. In order to protect, you must control the masses.

Political correctness is a form of control, for example, because there is a difference between being offensive to a group and just being controlled by political correctness in how to use the damn English language! For example, calling blacks "African-American" (not necessary), calling a woman an actor instead of actress (do women actually get offended by this?), so on are all a part of unnecessary control of free speech.

But then again, being a traditionalist is wrong because we must wipe out the foundations of what made the country in for something new and improved. I don't consider myself to be a true traditionalist because I am for changes, but the changes being brought, in your mind, are perfectly fine, despite its friction with man's natural rights.

I think what you are not understanding is that the government is not supposed to be as powerful as it is today. That the government uses state of emergencies to install new laws that are unconstitutional. Legally, you don't even have a sense of privacy because the government can investigate and detain you if they believe you are some domestic terrorist or a terrorist in general.


Of course, none of this matters because god forbid, someone should be a traditionlist.

Originally posted by seagull
If it's a second American civil war, I'm opting out...

These so called sides are nothing more than a contrivance by those on either "side" who seek power and position. I refuse to give them the satisfaction...

The only side I'm going to choose is my own.

I will think my own thoughts, and act as I feel I should...without regard to whether it suits one side or another.

In other words: To Hell With All Of Them...

Seagull, I can understand your position. I empathize with it and
peace is my desire as well. Since we're calling this a civil
war why don't we use our first civil war (1861-1865) as a frame of reference.

Before Fort Sumter was fired upon in Charleston harbor by the
Confederates probably MOST of the nation felt exactly as you. i.e. -
we don't want a war. Many people on either side didn't actually
think that hostilities were inevitable. The position of the South
was simply "let us go in peace". Lincoln and others in the cabinet
wouldn't hear of it, it was All the Union or nothing. Lincoln insured
a war by refusing to surrender Federal property that was in
Confederate territory.

Lincoln could've easily ordered the surrender of Ft. Sumter and
there may have not been any war at all. But certain seccessionist
hot-heads opened fire on the fort and the war had begun. An
obstinate person in control on either side can virtually guarantee
that conflict will ensue. Both sides thought that the war would be a
quick and easy affair, many joined lest they lose the opportunity
to "share in the glory" as it were. Regionalist pride trumped
commonsense and compromise and the war began in earnest.

With each new battle casualty lists grew longer and longer until
just 20 months after it had begun the battle of Antietam claimed
23.000 casualties in a single day of fighting. No-one could have
forseen the horrific carnage that would come just as today we
cannot guess at what the cost will ultimately be should a second
civil war occur.

Just as then we are seeing a division among Americans not along
the lines of state's rights but of Individual rights and the meaning
and substance of the Constitution on one side. on the other hand
there are those who feel that the Federal Government should do
whatever it deems necessary (regardless of the will of the people)
which seems at present to be giving exhorbitant amounts of money
and legislative advantage to mega-banks and multinational
corporations.

Clearly the Constitution has been trampled, individual rights
subborned for what they claim to be the "security and prosperity"
of the nation.
Will the best interests of multinational corporations be served or
shall the good of the people come first? This is the line in the sand
that sooner or later, one side will cross.

Should a war come you might elude for a while like those high in
the smoky mountains or the western territories but eventually a
draft was instituted by both sides. The war came to you wherever
you lived and whether you wanted it or not . Your money was taken
to pay for the war as well as your crops, livestock or sons. The
American civil war touched all but the richest, who could live in
luxury and pay for substitutes to go to war for them.

Once again it will be the poor who bear the brunt either economically
or physically when conflict comes. But it is coming and I have no
intention of seeing the "World's last best hope" go down the drain of corruption, greed and oppression.

My forefathers fought and died on American fields, islands in the
pacific and the air over Europe to give us the freedoms guaranteed
by our Constitution and I am prepared to do the same should the
need arise. Like at Fort Sumter, Americans are waiting for the first
shots to be fired, then all hell will break loose.
This isn't prophecy, it's just the way of history.

I don't read a lot of the OP's stuff...but this is a joke right? Satire? There is no war going on in the forums. It's just people posting opinions. Equating internet arguing with soldiers going into real battle, risking their lives, and not e-reputations, is pretty wrong, and stupid.

When my wife comes home today and asks why I'm wearing desert camo, I'll explain to her that a war is going on. Then I'll yell to her, "I need more ammo...I mean, emotes. And some mountain dew! I'm getting sleepy and the war needs me! Ahhh!"

Seriously?

It's not a war, it's an awakening.

The majority of the population is waking up to the reality of ponerology, the psychopathocratic control of society.

We're dealing with it, things are going to change.

And, as shown in the video linked on the first page, Mr Brzezinski needs to start being more careful with his mouth, because while it might be "easier to kill a million people than control a million people", today he dosen't have one million people to deal with, at a guess he will have, very soon, around 2.5 billion people taking to the powerstructure of the world elites and dragging it down.

If I'm right in taking the temperature of society the world's elite, Rothschilds, Rockefellers and cº, have a choice now: They try and phase shift society into the NWO slavery they seem to be planning on, and this will headbutt these psychopaths right into the human spirit and they will be hunted down by the lower grade psychos that they hope will do their bidding, something which I don't really want to see, or they also realise that their goals are untennable and they quietly exit stage and discretely watch their empires being peacefully dismantled as humanity makes elitist property comunal, in effect making them pay for the derivatives crisis they created.

Sadly I suspect they would rather be rulers of a mole hill than live in a real civilized loving society. But they may surprise me yet and realise that they are on the wrong side, because this is not a battle of wealth and dominion, this is a process of sublimination of spirit, one they could join with us. All it takes is a choice.

They can't win the war against the middle class when they're fighting peace... we can just turn our backs, shun them and occupy what they see as theirs. And it's over. This is the real R[LOVE]ution.

Fear or Love folks, fear or love?

There's more than just fear or love. Those are not the absolutes, and they aren't even opposites of one another. They are not the only two choices. Yeah I just picked out a tiny part of your post, but I see the 'fear or love' thing a lot, and it is just plain wrong.

bla bla bla more doom and gloom
go fix your life and stop waitng aorund for other people to fix it for you.

reply to post by seagull


The only war I'll join is the one where ALL OF US start fighting against the crooked, corrupted cronies on Capitol Hill, on Wall Street, and heading up the banks.

Until then, I'll let all the others fight their pointless battle.

The only one's out to destroy this country are those on in the White House, on Capital Hill, on Wall Street and heading up the banks.

reply to post by Oland


Definition of War:

Definition 1:

1 a (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2) : a period of such armed conflict

Definition 2:

2 a : a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b : a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end

Examples: A war on drugs, a war against disease, a war for your mind, a war against the poor/middle class

So yes, there is a war going on right now. As the OP said, it is not being fought with guns and bombs. It is being fought with words and ideas.

The casualties are our integrity and ability to be civil to each other regardless of differences.

reply to post by nunya13


Then I guess this means I'm at war with you!

*pew pew*

/ducks behind half-broken wall after reading your reply

Medic! He got me! He found a definition for war! Oh god, it's bad. I don't think I'll make it. Hopefully he doesn't post something about fear and love or I'm done for! Oh no, oh no, what if he tells me to "wake up" at the end of his post? Dear lord!

You're not taking me alive!

*pew pew pew*
*ratta-tatta-tat*

Originally posted by Oland
I don't read a lot of the OP's stuff...but this is a joke right? Satire?

Not at all. Indeed, if I was joking I'd have started it with something like "A horse walks into a bar...."

Sadly, I'm deadly serious. If you can't see the out and out ideological conflict that is going on at present - through the written word and through various forms of "new media" as well as the "old media" then I'm sorry, and I do wonder what you might be reading. I do think that the people who have starred and flagged the thread so far might see it differently though.

Still ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Equating internet arguing with soldiers going into real battle, risking their lives, and not e-reputations, is pretty wrong, and stupid.

I think you missed the point, that or you choose to deliberately obfuscate it. I made a comparison for figurative purposes - although the comparison is much much more relevant than you might think it is.

I'm sorry that you can't grasp the concept, however the premise of the thread is very very real, and if you spend some time reading the political forums of ATS, and other sites, you will see that the lines have been very clearly drawn in the sand.

The real 2nd civil war won't come, because 70% of the people who post on this forum just make stupid things up, or dream it after watching die hard the night before. SO NOW it's this new type of war and the weapons are words, emotes and propaganda. (boy that was handy)

Which by the way, are weapons in all real wars that have been fought by and STARTED with, I might add, throughout history.

What a BS thread. flag and star him for it kids, but be quick about it, die hard two is on in 30 minutes!

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Thanks, and I will return the compliment about your thread SKL -the OP is excellent

Some people who are contributing here think I'm being dramatic, or somehow want to mix up the idea of actual physical warfare with the type of information/intelligence/propaganda war that we are discussing.

I think its important that people realise the difference. Wars can be fought on many levels. Its understanding them and how they work that is the key to stopping them and progressing.

In this case - in my opinion - people are being played off against each other by political divides that only serve to weaken the population as a whole.

reply to post by neformore


Sorry, your reply to my post was pointless since I can't grasp your super intelligent concepts. However, I did pick up a few words in there with my tiny non-forum mod brain, such as the horse joke (which was awesome and I'd love to hear the end of it).

I guess I'll just continue on blissfully ignorant and do things on the internet that are not war-based, such as fantasy football. Isn't there a link in your sig about that? I guess you go to war and play fantasy football on the same battlefield.

You assume too much about me. Also, maybe, just maybe all these people are star-flagging you because you're a forum mod and they are suck-ups? See, I can assume too.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Oland]

Great thread, nef. I agree. For the most part.

Originally posted by nunya13
The casualties are our integrity and ability to be civil to each other regardless of differences.

These don't have to die! This is a choice. We can have the battle or even the war, but we don't have to lose our reputations or civility. Some people are just giving them up for free...

Psalms 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.

Psalms 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

MEEK:- Showing patience and humility; gentle; kind.