Basic Marksmanship (Proper Sight Alignment)

reply to post by DaddyBare


I have never had the urge to post to ATS until now.....

DaddyBare, I think what you are doing is a fine first step in properly educating the novice in some fundamentals. I myself have been teaching for almost 20yrs and shooting competitively for a good deal of that. I have trained some great operators down to the beginner out for a weekend of fun.

With that being said, from what I can tell DaddyBare is competent and has provided this thread with good basic information. But for some of the others making replies, if you are not an experienced instructor, keep your B***Sh** training advice to yourself. You are going to suggest something stupid that is going to get a newbie hurt or even killed. Like the D***A** who made the suggestion about "bump firing." That is really "cool" right up until you loose control of the weapon and you shoot yourself in the face.

As for the "to hold or not to hold your breath" for Christ's sake, there are different schools of thought on almost every aspect of the shooting sports. Keep it simple for the new guy, a short pause in breathing will work fine for the new guy. I have used different breathing techniques for various shooting sports or tactical techniques, one set in stone breathing technique will not always fit the bill for every situation or person, it depends upon what you are doing and how much time you have. This is really for a more in depth later discussion.

The two vids posted are very good, Todd is an incredible shooter, take what he says as the gospel. I have met him, but I don't know him like I do Rob Leatham, Phil Strader, Piatt or some of the other guys. So anything you see online from those guys will be just as solid.

Please the most important thing for a newbie to focus on......

Is SAFETY, no more stupid replies that will get a novice hurt in the shooting sports.

reply to post by JayinAR


the first basic being : know your target , know whats behind your target , find cover , and never give the #$%^%$ a fair brake.
never assume there is just one .

reply to post by lr308


And a very good first post it was.
Do you know Ken Marshall, by chance?

reply to post by readerone


I understand this.
However, if my wife is out on errands and someone walks into the house 20 minutes after she has left, I am not going to hide with a pistol.

reply to post by lr308


agree'd .

I might add.. any person who is learning to shoot , might seek out a local NRA , or indoor range .

I would not start out with a hand gun .

a nice .22LR or shot gun in 12 gauge might be better .

reply to post by guppy


There's also Babylon AD. Although it's only one scene, Vin Diesel does us an M16 to shoot a guy down from a distance. He appeared to be holding it properly.

reply to post by Miraj


The M16 is a fine weapon.
In good hands it is highly effective.
For whatever your purpose.

Rifles,

Boxer stance. Off foot forward one pace. Hands posed as if you are in the motion of throwing a jab at someone.
Same rules apply for marksmanship.

if I have a newbe ....
the very first thing out of the box...

you learn to clean all the guns I have .

you learn the words " I was afraid for my life or the life of another , I want to see an attornie ."

then they learn what those words mean in context to marinda rights and the jury instructions in a manslauter case .
( these instructions can be aquired at any court clerk , while you pay your speeding ticket )
and would include the self defense exception to the manslauter .
which in most state is " if you are afraid for your life or the life of another , you may willfully , take the life of another "

in some states there is wording of grave bodily harm , retreat , expectation of something or other exceptions ... but the core is...

are you afraid for your life , or the life of another .


I suggest , the shooting arts are divided in to three catigorys

1) talking about shooting

2) cleaning / mantaining

3) shooting

because you can do one well , means nothing about the other two .
the fundimentals are simple . your safty , and the safty of those around you .

reply to post by JayinAR


No, I don't know who he is, it is very possible that we have crossed paths over the years. I am going to assume that he shoots some form of competition. It really depends upon what discipline. He may be a fine shooter, just doesn't ring a bell.

reply to post by readerone


Good advice.
I have seen first hand the consequences of YEARS of neglect on a weapon in regards to cleaning when a rifle exploded in my face.

Amazingly the bolt of the weapon ended up about 50 feet behind me but missed my face.

I did rupture an eardrum though. ***Wear hearing protection, folks***

Serious stuff.


[edit on 2-9-2009 by JayinAR]

I just wanted to add in my two cents because I somewhat disagree with what you are teaching. The thing with zeroing , it all comes down to about 3 things(I'm just writing this off the top of my head) Trigger squeeze, breathing, and keeping your same sight picture(which I think is most important).

-Sight picture-

As everyone has there "own way" of lining up the sights I think its best to stress to keep that same sight picture and how to do that. With the M4a1(ar15 or m-16) iron sights I find the easier way to keep the same sight picture is to lightly place your nose on the charging handle(just barely touching it) not too much because it will pop you in the nose and this can result in a bloody nose(personal experience lol). you shouldn't worry about where the middle prong of the 3 pronged fork is. if its flushed with the other two prongs that is ok, but it shouldnt go higher(don't quote me on that), if its lower that is ok too.
Sorry if this is getting a little confusing just wanted to point out some things. Also when it comes to zeroing and even regular shooting, you should remember to blink in between shots(if you dont it will result in a blurred sight picture), and take breaths accordingly. oh almost forgot when zeroing you want to be in the most stable position you can be(prone supported), but really I can't tell you exactly what the position you need to be in because it all comes down to whatever is comfortable to you. Also a good thing to practice between shots with target shooting is to lose your sight picture then gain it again, this should tell you if you are doing a good job at keeping the same sight picture, if your shooting all over the place then you are doing something wrong.

Trigger squeeze
"squeeze don't pull" I'm sure everyone has heard that before, but I find you get the less "pull" from using your finger tip, some people like to wrap there finger around the trigger I find this to cause more pull(usually to the left for right handed people) and your bullets will land left and right of where you want it to go. DONT JERK THE TRIGGER

Breathing
good breathing techniques are important also, especially in the prone position. if your taking a deep breath in, while shooting, this will cause you to naturally shoot higher, deep breath out the opposite and will cause you to shoot lower.(again don't quote me on this, but basically it will mess up your shot) that is why it is best to breath out(not all the air like you are trying to sufficate yourself)then take a shot, breath in, breath out, shoot, breath in breath out, shoot, and so on.

hope this isn't complicated but these are the basics I was taught in the Infantry. but really it all comes down to what works for YOU.

reply to post by lr308


I was just curious.
I work with the man and apparently he is some sort of bad mofo competitive shooter. (like at one point tops in the nation)
I still say meet me on the range.


[edit on 2-9-2009 by JayinAR]

hehehehe..
I think the M-16 is over rated , m-14 was better .

I agree with the boxer , weiver , or a sitting weiver .

reply to post by readerone


The M16 is what I learned with.
The M4 is what I perfected. (Good enough to know when the round was bad)

The M16 will do in a pinch.



[edit on 2-9-2009 by JayinAR]

reply to post by readerone


A nice, squared-off boxer exposes more body armor surface area if you're wearing, too, as well as an increased chance of hostile fire striking a trauma plate instead of soft armor.

[edit on 2009/9/2 by Griever0311]

reply to post by Griever0311


Very true.
There is a reason the military teaches these things.
They are the most effective.

The military teaches jiu-jitsu. It is the most effective.
Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency.

Effective lethality.

reply to post by JayinAR


my father was quite well know in the 60'.... I didn't know untill he died and we saw his awards .

what I did notice was he was a slow shooter , and liked to help others learn to shoot well , even more then he liked shooting himself .

what I also notice , shooters are polite .
and the very best , are very polite .
the guys that are very polite , have that calm to them ... you know your going to see tiny patterns ( or at least I won't be surprised )

reply to post by readerone


I would agree with that.
The guy that jumps down your throat for missing a shot he ma not make himself.
I had a leader like that for a bit.
He was a dickweed and I didn't respect him at all.

He liked to yell at people when they messed up, yet when it was his turn, he was like a craftsman blaming his tools.


[edit on 2-9-2009 by JayinAR]

As an Army veteran I was trained on the M16-a4. The first thing we learned was sight , breathing, proned( supported, unsupported) then on to grouping. before we even fired one shot we learned that weapon intimately. what every working part is and its' function. Out of the box people Learn your weapon of choice first ( what it's capable of ) just my two cents.