Financial Collapse summary - confirmed & suspected events.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


So.....what's the good news?
There has to be a way out of this mess.
Growth?

Originally posted by dimensionaljumper
reply to post by Zosynspiracy

 

"That's why we are different than the Chinese, the Indians, and a whole host of other countries."

The Chinese and Indian middle class are quickly catching up to our middle class in terms of wealth.

I am an American citizen but work abroad. Oh, and by the way. My company is not an American based company, it is an Asian based company. So you could say that I am an outsourced resource.

You should know better then to try and bluff this group. As a techie, one contract gig I had I worked with a programmer on a project for a major package shipping company and he talked about his life in India. The middle class there IS NO WAY closing in on our middle class. You forget that they have a cast system which prohibts some from even entering middle class. So don't compare those that are making their own way in the US with the untouchables in India. It's a lose-lose comparison.

Ive often wondred, wether or not its possible..the war in afghanistana nd in Iraq is what, at least at some level what really keeping our economy alfoat right now. BEfore WWII, obviously, we were in a depression. it was WWII that got us out..production to make $$$. so here we are today in a multi billion world, and how many fronts does our governemnt have going on? 2 or 3 over in the middle east thier? so, my small theory is, as long as our governm,ent wages war, in perticular afghanistan , IRaq for now, the economy wont entirely collapse yet.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


I dont disagree with you Ex_MislTech.

Just saying that my view is, if you cant beat it, thrive in it, or at least attempt to. There are a lot of humans on this planet. And economics is a caste system, but the beauty of it is that you dont have to stay stuck in your caste system. You can rise up, you just have to garner the necessary tools and business smarts to make it happen.

One's ability to evolve is essential to survival.

Yes, the world has changed vastly in the last 30 years, and it will change even more in the next 30 years. People cant have a "now" mindset, they must think ahead. This is how those who have much wealth acquire it. They are visionaries amongst a land of blind men.

reply to post by dimensionaljumper



So were you born in this country? Educated in this country? Seems to me like you could care less about Americans and the American middle class judging by your attitude. The sad thing about China and India is that when their "middle" class finally does catch up they'll realize there is no way to sustain that type of lifestyle because they are almost a billion people and have half the land area the US has. We are a very special country my friend and people like me intend to keep it that way for generations to come. Like I said you sound like a globalist. Look I'm not proud of a lot of things about America.......including our lavish, materialistic lifestyle..........but that doesn't mean I think we deserve to live like a third world country. There is no way the rest of the world can expect to live like we do in America. Hell I don't like the way we live per se. We are 1% of the worlds population using 25% of the worlds resources. How can Indian and China possibly expect to take our place with their massive populations?

Originally posted by dimensionaljumper
And by the way, BOA is not going to shutdown 600 locations.

"A bank spokesman, James Mahoney, rejected a published report that the bank plans to shed 10 percent of its branches, a move that would cost thousands of jobs. But he said cuts would come as more consumers bank online or by phone."

The reason they will shrink the network of their banks over the next 5 years is be cause consumers don't use the physical banks as much as they used to. Most do their transactions online. And a large percentage of the workforce is paid via direct deposit.

www.cnbc.com...


Do you guys want the economy to collapse? If so, why? Are you currently not succeeding and thriving in this economic system? If not, why? When the going gets tough, the tough get going. There are millions of Americans that are currently thriving in this economic system. You could be one of them, but instead of figuring out how to thrive, you just complain and hope that the system fails, because you just cant seem to fit into it.

Sure, there is corruption in the markets. But there has always been corruption, and there will always be corruption, because it is a product of man. Man is flawed, and so are the systems he creates. Stop bitching about it, and go out there and get a better job, or better your education level people. Doom and gloom is so out of style!

So out of style? Did you seriously write this and not decide to go back and edit it? Yikes. I'm only 30 which puts me slightly ahead on years (and experience) then you but no where near what some of these other posters on here have. They have a lot more experience with things going on and see the patterns of society. So the "doom and gloom" is the result of those that have seen things happen before and learned from it. You and I may not have the luxury or 40+ years of seeing how the world turns which means we have to back off of pretending to know it all and allow those that may know what they are talking about talk.

Besides, being arrogant is so out of style.......

Their is no such thing as USA VS China
Their is no such thing as Christian VS Muslim
Their is no such thing as Black VS White

Their are those who are controlled VS those who control.

The sad thing is plenty of people who are controlled don't know they support the chains that hold them down.

The idea that tons of lazy people don't try hard enough and deserve to by poor is one of the more ignorant and hilarious aspects of this control system.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


I like America too. But I don't make exceptions for it. America is no longer the land of the free, because most are slaves to debt. By choice.

What is so wrong about thinking of the world with a globalist mindset instead of a nationalist mindset? I wish well-being for all humans, not just ones born on American soil. I dont think Americans should have an upper hand on the rest of the world economically just because we are Americans.

Great minds and relentless spirits are what once made this country great. Somewhere along the way many lost that. They became zombies addicted to media, tv, and internet. They expected too much with putting forth too little effort.

reply to post by Roadblockx


doom and gloom out of style was a joke.............god, you guys are so touchy in this room.

you dont have to be 40 or 50 to see patterns. pick up a history book.

the point i was trying to express was that this room EEEKS of fear and loathing.
and quite frankly I dont get it. i grew up in a very low income household, and decided that when I became an adult I would not repeat the cycle.

I believe this is still possible to do, for anyone who puts forth the effort.

Originally posted by dimensionaljumper
reply to post by Zosynspiracy

 

I like America too. But I don't make exceptions for it. America is no longer the land of the free, because most are slaves to debt. By choice.

What is so wrong about thinking of the world with a globalist mindset instead of a nationalist mindset? I wish well-being for all humans, not just ones born on American soil. I dont think Americans should have an upper hand on the rest of the world economically just because we are Americans.

Great minds and relentless spirits are what once made this country great. Somewhere along the way many lost that. They became zombies addicted to media, tv, and internet. They expected too much with putting forth too little effort.

Haha and as a software designer aren't you perpetuating that addiction of technology (media, tv and internet)? After all you're the reason why I'm able to use my computer correct?

Look kid......I'm calling you a kid because you sound very young and very arrogant and the funny thing is I'm only 30 probably not much older than you. But I know my history and I'm an American and I DO MAKE EXCEPTIONS FOR MY COUNTRY AND despite all our problems I'm proud of who I am and where I come from just like the Chinese, just like the French, the Indians, the Mexicans, and the Canadians. America is still a great country and there is still hope. Yes we have our problems and yes we are way to materialistic and yes we have gotten way to comfortable in many areas of our lives and yes our kids are a mess and yes and yes and yes. You act like every other country out there doesn't have problems either. Yes we are slaves to debt. But so are a hundred other countries. What country do you think that is so much better than America isn't a slave to debt, a slave to consumerism, or literally a slave? China? Indian? You tell me what country is so much better than the US?

And I never asked you if you liked America........I asked you if you were born and educated in this country? Just because you are an American citizen does not in my book make you American.

[edit on 2-9-2009 by Zosynspiracy]

reply to post by Roadblockx


They outsource because its all about ROI.

Low investment, High return.

And I dont have a BHO bumper sticker. And I dont look down on people who have families, if you would have read my earlier post in whole. I said that I will probably fall into that category in the next few years. But I will do it with caution.

Originally posted by 21st century man
My first post! And on such a dire topic.
Good work on the research, and like the visual ski jump.
I can't help feel two things, 1. - What can we do? We can help ourselves and our immediates, but on a large scale the MSM have got it sewn up. 2. If TBTB are so in control, why are they allowing such open discussion and speculation about this upcoming crash? Wouldn't this then suggest they are allowing us-the great unwashed - to fret about this whilst something is happening in the shadows?
Maybe I'm just hyper paranoid!

Welcome!

I'll tell you what we can do. Usher in the abundance paradigm!

I have a post (first link in my sig) and a book, offered FREEly (second link in my sig). And many posts around here... In particular, this one:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These describe what we can do right now.

[edit on 9/2/2009 by Amaterasu]

This prediction is made every month. It never happens and it's always a failed prediction. I now don't believe any of this after the last 10 failed.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


To use something or to be addicted to something are two totally different things. I dont perpetuate anything. You are making this way too personal.
You asked for specific details about my personal life, and I obliged. But now you are attempting a smear campaign because my outlook is different than your own.

reply to post by dimensionaljumper


Each question I have asked and you have answered has allowed me to better understand you and your viewpoints........aka your globalist perspective and disdain for the American middle class that's all. My last question was very relevant. If one is not born in this country and has not lived here for any length of time it's hard for one to understand what it means to be American and how we are different than other countries. Even if you are an American citizen that had the opportunity to reside in the US and go to school here but now live abroad that does not make you an American. Now that I better understand your perspective I actually respect it a little more although I completely disagree.

S and F

GREAT Information!!

Thank you for linking all of it for us!! I sincerely hope people heed the warnings and look at the links and realize we are going to be going downhill in the very near future (like days at this point).

Originally posted by ziggy1706
I've often wondered, wether or not its possible..the war in Afghanistan and in Iraq is what, at least at some level what really keeping our economy afloat right now...

(note: edited for readability, not your fault, I occasionally hose myself also when I'm in a hurry)

Well... if you want to buy into a somewhat "out there" point of view... What is propping us up are a series of "bubbles" that were artificially generated by Greenspan et al. The general idea, is to pump money and spending in the economy by throwing debt on us.

Nikolai Kondratiev was a Russian economist who proposed a theory that Western capitalist economies have long term (50 to 60 years) cycles of boom followed by depression. These business cycles are now called "Kondratiev waves". (Wikipedia)

Kondratiev waves are driven by technological revolutions and rise to a peak as the technology becomes adopted and exploited, then a recession phase, followed by a depression period which typically has some sort of economy driven/related war, then a recovery with a new technology being discovered/developed that then drives the next wave.

Waves can overlap as the different technologies used by the society shift importance.

Wave One - 1771 - Industrial Revolution - War of 1812 at the dip
Wave Two - 1829 - Steam and Railways - American Civil War at the dip (Austro-Prussian War in europe)
Wave Three - 1875 - Steel, Electricity, Heavy Engineering - World War I at the dip.
Wave Four - 1908 - Oil, Autos, Mass Production - World War II at the dip.
Wave Five - 1971 - Information Age - The economy related war is likely still pending

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/01b5fd67ccce.png[/atsimg]

If you will note, wave five peaked in the 1981 - 1987 time frame. Oddly enough... Greenspan who took control of the Fed August 11, 1987, seems to have engineer or enabled a massive run up in the stock market. What specifically he changed to let the market run away like that, I don't know. But it staved off an inevitable recession and the Dow peaked around 11722.98 on 14 Jan 2000.

This is where you might get angry...

In 2002, in the New York Times.. in an opinion piece, the following was written:

The basic point is that the recession of 2001 wasn't a typical postwar slump, brought on when an inflation-fighting Fed raises interest rates and easily ended by a snapback in housing and consumer spending when the Fed brings rates back down again. This was a prewar-style recession, a morning after brought on by irrational exuberance. To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble.

NYT

The Dow peaked again 12 Oct 2007 at 14093.08.

Right now... if Kondratiev's theory is correct, we are in for one huge fall as all that over extended debt comes due. Whatever new technology there is to drive the next wave will probably not show up until somewhere between 2016 to 2034... provided we are still a capitalist society.

BTW... Greenspan went on to do consulting work for Pimco after he left the Fed.

Now... as for spuring people to take on new debt... that's what it's all about. That's what "Drive America" and "Cash for Clunkers" was all about. Personally, I suspect that Cash for Clunkers was also intended to funnel money to the States. You paid sales tax on the full retail value of the vehicle, and you will pay Federal tax on that "voucher" come April 15th. Having a brand spanking new car loan to pay off helped the finance companies... such as GMAC.


Here, another graph for you...

This is the current debt, in 1980 dollars, for each individual in the civilian workforce, as defined by the Bureau of Labor and Statistics. It's based on outstanding private debt figured from the Federal Reserve.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d1963dd0f6da.png[/atsimg]

Note: Chart data comes from here:
www.bls.gov...
www.federalreserve.gov...



So... there's why, as best I can figure.

Note: Not every one buys into the "Long Wave" theory, so take it with a grain of salt.








[edit on 2-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]

reply to post by RoofMonkey

Excellent post, RoofMonkey -- the real issue is debt -- without which no 'money' can be created by the Federal Reserve. Fractional reserve banking is the culprit, aided by the 'American dream' of a better life involving highly-leveraged assets and lifestyles purchased on future promises of continuing prosperity and inflation.

All the posts have been excellent, this discussion is eye-opening, and each of us becomes more and more aware of our vulnerabilities and our strengths as truth emerges.

Just imagine what would happen if all of us decided to take a 'spend-free holiday' for one week -- no purchases at all. Do you think anyone would notice? I think we would truly discover who has the ultimate power in this economy. But I digress -------

I heard someone say that the war between Russia and Afghanistan is what bankrupted the Russians and eventually caused them to collapse. No one has every been able to go over there and defeat Afghanistan in thoughs mountains. This person went on to say that if America don't get out of Afghanistan soon, we will face the same fate. Then I hear others say that the war is what's keeping our economy afloat. Right now, thw war in Afghanistan don't seem to be a good idea to me, especially if it's true that every country who went up against them eventyually went bankrupt.

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[edit on 2-9-2009 by venividivici]