Thirteen Goals of a Witch

Originally posted by OmegaPoint

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

If Christians find their ideas so interesting, then they could share them on a Christian site. This is ATS, and we should feel free to share any idea on any subject!

Now that's a rather contradictory statement..

LOL, I guess it does appear that way, but not when you read the post it was replying to:

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

If OP found those ideas so interesting, then he or she could share them on a witchcraft site.

reply to post by KarlG


Many people experience corruption and/or abuse in the church. This causes them to deny any belief in a supernatural god, until they come across stories of ghosts, ET's and demons. Like any kid looking to join a gang, they become Wiccans in order to protect themselves from these "paranormal" entities.

I believe that personal expression is very important in this life. Some people prefer to share their experience with others (and absorb "ambient energy"), while others are better going at it alone without anyone to betray their trust. Being a Christian has nothing to do with attending church, but about putting your faith in Jesus Christ. The concept of church is basically a way to make a system of faith into a public institution. In the Bible itself it says not to put your faith in churches above your faith in Jesus Christ. The Protestant Reformation started, basically, as a way for people to practice Christianity without attending a large, magnanimous church adorned all sorts of expensive accoutrements.

Originally posted by KarlG

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Most of the people I know who have converted to Paganism did so because it filled a need in their lives that was not filled by any mainstream, organized religion. While I will debate the validity of some beliefs here on ATS, the only real problem I have with any organized religion is the need to convert others to their way of thinking and the forcing of their values and beliefs on those who choose not to follow their religion.

Funny you should think that Christians force their beliefs on others. Actually, they extend a hand of help to others. Most of the people I know who have converted to Christianity did so because it filled a need in their lives. It gave them hope for a life hereafter, a purpose for this life, and an understanding of the love of God for them in their daily lives. Most of them came to me or people like me because of the life we live and enjoy, the family stability and happiness we exhibit in our daily living, and the love we show for each other. You don't drive people into church stalls like cattle. Virtually every convert I have brought into Christianity came to me.

LOL. Funny! Repost. No comment here... read what I said above about Islam and Christianity.

I think I might read the book on John, if you say it does fit me. But remember, I get uncomfortable around "singular-being-worshipping". The moment things like "God is great, we must love Him and trust in Him to go to heaven" appears, I'm putting it down.

[edit on 2-9-2009 by KarlG]

Yeah, I was editing that post and it got behind about 3 more posts. Thought it was missed. Sorry. John is a good book to start with. He was the disciple Jesus loved, and his book is about love, and God from the love perspective. It's the best book in the Bible for getting a concept of God and Jesus. Most folks have a completely wrong take on Jesus and God. For example, in the book of John it says "God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." John 3:17. God loves us. We just don't get it.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
Where are they? Where is the local Wiccan church on my street? There are 40 Christian churches in a square mile around me, but there is not one Wiccan church. Do they hide? Are they ashamed of what they do? If their works were good, wouldn't they be coming to the light?

I rest my case.

[edit on 2-9-2009 by Jim Scott]

Well, considering YOU were the one who said Wicca is a "selfish" religion, I'm surprised you don't understand why Wiccans don't have churches. Considering that you actually DID hit the nail on the head, albeit a bit too bluntly...

I wouldn't use the word "selfish", i would use the word "solitary".

Wiccans dont have churches. Witches dont have churches. This is not Islam, where mosques are needed, or Buddhism, with temples. Wiccan churches are AT HOME (read so many of the posts detailing what I do above) in the safety of one's own house, with one's PRIVATE, personal space. There is absolutely NO need for witches to come right out and build churches (40 or more) in a square mile radius around us. That, in fact, goes against many of the preferences of Wiccans.

"HEY LOOK, LOOK AT US, COME VISIT US!"

Nope, no thank you, not our style.

You didn't rest your case, because your case... isn't there!

The NATURE of this religion is such that we don't go for GRANDEUR! SIZE! SCALE! No Vatican strongholds, no large-scale church fundraisers... we don't need funds and we don't need large buildings to affirm our love for the natural way and our surroundings.

MISCONCEPTION!


[edit on 2-9-2009 by KarlG]

OH, and btw, with regards to the "solitary" nature of the witch:

Ever wonder why is it the witch is always portrayed living by herself, in a cave, with her black cauldron, with only her cat for a companion?

It's exaggerated, like everything else about the witch, but the idea is there: the witch is solitary, and prefers his/her own private sphere instead of large gatherings in large, grandly buildings.

It really irks me when people speak of Islam on ATS and really dont know what they are talking about

Don't mean to sound rude, but I'd really like to shed some light on mosques in Islam

There is no requirement for going to mosque, not creating grandeur structures for the faith as noted in the Quran. However, the presence of mosques where muslims go to pray is for the purpose of praying with fellow muslims, gaining insight on life, and most important harvesting positive energy and feelings within a geometrical strucutre. The Kabba which is located in Mecca is a mosque and in the middle is a black stone that is said to have come down from the heavens to s how Abraham where to set up the very first location of worship. This location is also rumored to be the actual centre of the earth as opposed to Greenwich,but thats another topic. Every year at the Hajj, millions of Muslims gather at Mecca, and perform a prayer in which they circle the Kabba, black stone, 7 times counter clockwise. To me this metaphorically mirrors our galaxy's rotation (and the concept of every single cell in the universe rotating) around a black hole in the middle of the galaxy.


Even the prostration of prayer in Islam parallel those of Moses and Abraham in the bible where it states that they bow their heads to the ground to their Lord.

Other positions parallel those of a specific type of Yoga which promises to tune your frequency. Therefore praying in the Islamic fashion tunes your frequency and helps you become aware of a higher power.

I may have digressed here, I apologize, but I just had to comment on that.


Peace and blessings to all.

ver[iy]reply to [rl=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread497363/pg11#pid7014158]post by KarlG[/url]

I think that here lies the difference between at least myself and those Christians who are here to 'Witch bash'. I completely understand the precepts of Christianity. I was raised a Christian, and had a formal Christian education (didn't see the inside of a public school until I was a Junior in high school), and studied it for the better part of two decades. On my bookshelf right now, I have 12 books on Christianity, not including the three different versions of the Bible (plus the Latin one which is a family heirloom), and I've read them all at least once.

Meanwhile, I would be willing to bet that those who have such a big problem with those who are Pagans have not read so much as a pamphlet on the subject. This is blaringly apparent by the completely inaccurate statements made by many.

The motto here is 'Deny Ignorance', so why don't you educate yourself before you post on such subjects. It won't hurt, and unless your faith is weak, it probably won't change your mind on anything, but at least you won't sound like an ignorant fool. I suggest The Complete Idiots Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft (this is not to imply you are an idiot, but it is a easy, plain English introduction to the subject). Education... It isn't just for school aged children anymore!

reply to post by Jim Scott


Wrong! Weak argument, I have seen some pagans more willing to help others than most Christians I have known.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Um, you are starting the fight by calling those who don't share your beliefs Satanists. You are welcome to think that but don't think it isn't going to bring about an extreme response. Rather like what certain atheists like to do to you and your response. Expect it's now vice versa.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


As it should be!!!! Follow your own path.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Um dualism encompasses the ideas of good AND evil. How does that translate into "dualism is evil"?????

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


That comment is ignorance not denied.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Yet you call your god "He".

reply to post by OmegaPoint


It's a label. Nothing more.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Worship and respect are two vastly different things. I am called to respect those things you mentioned not worship. You distort things for your own purposes.

reply to post by Jim Scott


Because the Church has coerced and at times shoved Christianity down a great number of people's throats. Rather like why you are here now telling us we are Satanists, selfish and etc. All for political or CONTROL reasons.


[edit on 2-9-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Just a comment:
I think Jim Scott said something to the effect that Chritianity is more fulfilling than Wicca / Paganism. I disagree with that entirely and suggest that no one can state what is internally fulfilling for anyone else. especially those he doesn't know. In my own experience, having been raised Chistian, for reasons I won't go into here, I prayed to God that I was stepping off that path and onto a path that would lead me to Truth. That path lead me to the Goddess......and then into Wicca, a nice soft landing after lots of trials....and then to my own Wiccan tradition and practice. Much much more fulfilling than what I endured in the church of Christ. You'll probably say I've been decieved but what is spiritual peace if not fulfillment?

Some of you were sharing books to read awhile back in the thread. There is a book that I would suggest to everyone: Knights Templar Revisited. Traces Christianity back to the ancient Egyptian religion and shows that it really could not have come from the Jewish religion. And it's backed up with
a bibliography you won't believe. I beleive the scapegoat mentioned earlier is a Jewish practice and not a Christian one.

Another important book is Triumph of the Moon.....wonderful history of neo paganism and addresses Gardner in a very different light. Written by a Rhodes scholar whose name I cannot remember now.

I have been delighted in finding so many witches on ATS! Merry meet to you all! I wonder about a thread on sharing traditions, practices, beliefs of the wheel, circle, elements, etc?

reply to post by missvicky


Abso-frakkin-lutely!!! It was the same for me! Then add on the discrepencies in the Christian beliefs in the afterlife and that which has been shared with me by those who have crossed over. There is a Pagan author who is into afterlife communication who received the following message in an EVP that explains why they do:

"Unaware, they spread lies... they follow old words... they are not here... Question all... Question everything..."

Originally posted by missvicky

I have been delighted in finding so many witches on ATS! Merry meet to you all! I wonder about a thread on sharing traditions, practices, beliefs of the wheel, circle, elements, etc?

Umm... Wouldn't be a good idea... people would suggest we move our discussion "to a witchcraft site". It's a hostile place here for non-Christians, in general.

But, oh well, nice to meet you! You can PM me and we can chat some about elements and practices if you wish! Blessed be!

reply to post by KarlG


Hostile for anyone really it seems. How all sides claim that the other makes ATS hostile for them. Le sigh. I hope we are one day able to achieve the free exchange of ideas without all this silly rigamarole.....

Originally posted by missvicky
Much much more fulfilling than what I endured in the church of Christ. You'll probably say I've been decieved but what is spiritual peace if not fulfillment?

Well-said, missvicky!

So true that many people try to push for their religion to be "more fulfilling" than others, using their own experiences as "fact". Like I said before, each person has his or her own tastes, and what constitutes peace and calm for them, so we should all attempt to find our own spiritual haven.

There is no absolute truth, i.e. if you believe in Wicca and not in the Christian God you will not go to heaven. The notion of heaven is unclear here, and it's a cross-contamination of religions that is unnecessary and excessively confusing, not to mention contentious.

reply to post by KarlG


Yes, you're probably right.
Unfortunately.

(referring to your response to my idea for a thread, got out of synch)

[edit on 2-9-2009 by missvicky]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by KarlG

 

Hostile for anyone really it seems. How all sides claim that the other makes ATS hostile for them. Le sigh. I hope we are one day able to achieve the free exchange of ideas without all this silly rigamarole.....

I have no idea how I 'foed' you in the first place. Seeing as we actually agree on many things, hmmm... I do 100% agree with you... ATS is hostile because of its NATURE. "Deny ignorance" is its motto, thus because everyone has a varying belief of what is "absolutely true", we deny what others perceive as truth, perceiving THAT as ignorance, and then we promote our OWN perceptions of truth, such that everything ends up becoming heated and uncomfortable.

[edit on 2-9-2009 by KarlG]

reply to post by missvicky


The best way to beat it is to do it and not let those that would drag you down into the mud as they often seem to want to do. I would participate if you made the thread. When I could at least.

[edit on 2-9-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by KarlG


Perhaps it was a misunderstanding? But either way, we are in agreement. I think people need to learn to understand that just because others don't agree with them doesn't mean they are necessarily insulting their beliefs.

reply to post by KarlG


Well that's it then......there is no absolute truth objectively speaking. It all boils down to our experiences whilst walking in our own shoes. But, and here's what drives us crazy, what if the there is such a thing as truth and it's our attachments to our own definitions of it that clouds our vision, our perceptions, our reactions.....clouds our own definitions of it?


(is this the long version of the chicken and the egg?)

[edit on 2-9-2009 by missvicky]