convince an evolutionist that the God of Scripture is real?

I will humor you and quote the washington times.

The standards say high school students must understand major evolutionary concepts but that the basic theory that all life had a common origin has been challenged in recent years by fossil evidence and molecular biology.


Eight out of 10 Americans believe God guided creation in some capacity. A Gallup Poll reveals that 46 percent think God created man in his present form sometime in the past 10,000 years, while 36 percent say man developed over millions of years from lesser life forms, but God guided the process.


This is complimentary to your statement, but this is man not scientist. Man also believes that bombs went off at the bottom of the world trade centers because they saw a doctored video on youtube. Also 28% or man do not believe that American astronauts have been on the Moon.

Man believes what they hear, and what they fear. Some may not "believe" in god as a whole but fear him enough to believe in him so that they can ascend to heaven.

So let me ask you, If god has a divine plan. We all do our part in his plan, and god gave us free will. Where does one start and the other end?
God says all men are equal, but, as an example take a new born infant, it has been alive for say 3 days. The infant dies, why? It's because of SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) Or maybe someone decided that they just don't like children. So this is gods plan? To kill a new born. Why? To teach someone a lesson that they were doing wrong? Doesn't this make the man a higher person over the baby? Did the infant do something wrong? How could it, it was 3 days old. If we have free will how come god can manipulate us for his plan. Those two are contradictory to each other.

In the bible, women are not equal to man so should I treat women like they're under me? Maybe that baby was a female?

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Corinthians 14:34-35 Let women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

I am also pretty sure in the bible it claims that a women's period is a unholy act and is dirty for several days. A man whom sleeps with a women on their period becomes dirty.

Equal rights only came during the 20th century. When the bible was "Modernized" Updated if you will to include such. The fact still remains god says I should denounce women as equal.

Don't call this absurd or ill informed. I am taking quotes from the bible =)
I am also taking quotes from Washington times.

One last thing, many cultures have developed different religions. The Mayans, Greek, Persians, Egyptians, Native Americans, and etc... Even some have interpreted the bible different or even Jesus for that matter.
What makes Christianity so "Absolute"? If anything its just one in many. If I have to choose a religion it would be Buddhism.

Again attacking someone over a statement is juvenile. If you want people to believe in creation, in god. Present a valid argument, present facts, and sources. Instead of saying "Absurd" make a coherent reply with all your points defending your side.

My old science teacher use to tell me, that science and religion do not mix. I quote "Put religion in one pocket and science in the other."

My sources:

Washington times
The bible

Updated for grammar



[edit on 17-9-2009 by Benihime]

reply to post by Benihime


Some very good points in the second post in my opinion. though the first one you seemed a little angry as i suppose is understandable. however i am hoping for a friendly debate so please play nice

And you know why people don't listen to the washingtont times? because they are bias and no answer is good enough for them.

(In the bible, women are not equal to man so should I treat women like they're under me? Maybe that baby was a female?

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Corinthians 14:34-35 Let women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. )




If they had a GRAIN of understanding they could figure it out on their own, but what do they do? use circular arguments that go nowhere because they don't want answers, you can tell the way they ask questions.



One passage they left out because they suck! excuse my language. damn advocates.


Mark 10:8 " AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh "



infact it says woman and men should be subject to EACH other. This is called sanity, if you put it in context, if you are bias, you will be bias ofcourse.


Now if the two become one flesh and subject to each other how can they put themselves above each other?


Obviously they can't, doesn't mean he puts himself above unfairly the woman.

God made man first and women out of the man.

That's why he wants men only to speak in church, women have certain duties and men have certain duties but it doesn't take away womens roles because God doesn't want them preaching.

women are strong in other areas because in our Church the greatest saints save Jesus is a WOMEN and God saved the world through a women called Mary whom Jesus came.


again no understanding today.


Babies who are taken out are done for a reason, God knows why. because we don't understand, does that make it unjust? No. our humans minds can't understand God. And this is what pride does to people.'


and it's not killing. Gods the author of life. An Old guy dies of old age, is he murdered or is it just death?

Death comes to everybody. By that persons logic everybody is murdered by God.


it's insanity.


peace.





[edit on 17-9-2009 by JesusisTruth]

[edit on 17-9-2009 by JesusisTruth]

reply to post by JesusisTruth


You seem quiet mad about my questions. You say I am being biased but clearly I am not. I am just asking questions for better clarification. You see I use to embrace god. I use to study the bible. When I became older and more learned I figured out that a lot of it is just nonsense. You use your faith as a shield to a perfectly healthy argument saying that we the "Non believers" are biased and wont accept any answer. NoturTypical used the Washington Times for a percentage on Creationism vs Darwinism. There is a reason why NO ONE should trust the news, it is because they are all biased!

I do not ask questions because I have no argument, no its because I just want clarification. Also the old testament was rewritten in favor of women rights. As I said, but one thousand years Women had no rights, they were nothing but slaves. My points are still valid and you attacked my argument with anger. I still await a valid argument other than mouthing off.

I refer to it as murder because it simply is. It is murder by definition. If god caused an infant to die then it is murder by definition. =) God makes the new life and kills it in 3 days. All it is murder. It didn't just die because it was god. God killed it and is not an exception to the definition.

Definition of murder " kill intentionally and with premeditation" Or to clarify "To take another life" It doesn't matter if "god" Made this life he still took it thus it is murder o_O..

I am not afraid of answers as I clearly pointed out. My "circulatory" questions are asked for clarification. I want to know, you see I am a advocate for knowledge, I want to know both sides. I guess I am in the wrong, because I want answers. Maybe I should just take up religion that seems to have a lot of holes and contradictories that people just accept as "Answers" (That was my retaliation to JesusisTruthr o_o simple rule. Do not attack someone and expect them to give cookies. For each attack someone makes amongst me I will attack back, it is as simple as that =))

Also, religion is biased as you are in your post. Not willing to take an argument and just yelling back about how "Biased" we are. Which in fact just shows how biased you are. Contradictories are fun no?

People use the bible to justify there own means. Thus why women had no rights 40 years ago. War has been waged over the bible, where is the right in this? Just like you currently are using the bible to justify your own means.

If no one can understand god then how come you act like you know him. If no one can understand god then that makes the bible a fictional story. Those who wrote it couldn't understand and ended up writing a story of fiction. Only god can understand god so god would have to come down and write it him self. Even then we wouldn't be able to understand it because he is still god. If god told these men to write the bible we still wouldn't be able to understand it because its gods word. Even more so they wouldn't understand it because its god. So that makes the bible a total bust. Even everything about creationism, because if god did so we wouldn't be able to understand that he did it and would get the wrong idea like creationism. Even though he might have done something along the lines we still wouldn't understand, or even know about it because we cannot understand. So that makes creationism a fictional story as well. We cannot understand god so we don't know what he really did and cannot accept him or Jesus as truth.

"our humans minds can't understand God."

Edited for spelling and grammar




[edit on 17-9-2009 by Benihime]

reply to post by Benihime


Anytime you ask "uncomfortable" questions you will get dodges and answers that answer nothing. unfortunately its just the way it is...

I admire what TheMythLives said on the first page. Truly a smart man.

WELLLL looks like this one goes to evolution.... god i hate it when the other side gives up >.>

It wasn't even a debate I really wanted one too =( Someone just decided that i was biased and something and something o_O.


So I am wondering, when people have "Near death" experiences do they really see heaven?


Oh a funny fact, when a poll says some random percentage believes that god created them. It doesn't entirely mean creationism! It just means they believe in god =) It is pretty much the basses of any religion. My friend is Catholic and he doesn't believe in the creation theory.


[edit on 19-9-2009 by Benihime]

DONT LET THE THREAD DIE!!!!!!!!!! LEAVE NO ONE BEHIND

free will is reported as being favored by god.

i'd go against my own belief system if i were to go against my god's will to convince anyone of anything .... why don't you take it up with god yourself?

free will being what free will is ....

i guess i could demonstrate miracles can exist... but free will means the observer can not offend god by choosing to see what the observer chooses to see ....

look at the profile of primate, dominant species on planet earth.
look at king kong's face as he looks towards your right.
look at an ape's face, or chimps, or most primate faces ...

know what they look like? do you know what the face of your closest relatives on earth look like? would you be able to recognize one when you saw it?

look at a few flat world maps ...

look at the entire western seashore of the continents of north and south americas .... specifically the coastline from alaska to the southern tip of south america ...

doesn't the whole pacific ocean and 2 continents, north & south america, look like a primate looking eastward.

what do you suppose the odds are of that?
what do you think the odds are that thousands of miles of shoreline look like the dominant species on the planet ..... without some level of intelligent intervention???

what numbers to you suggest we plug into what equasion to figure out those odds ????

or, perhaps it's just easier to deny it exists, and not see it all.

it is said that my god can move mountains.
but then again, the mountains are already where god put em ....

Originally posted by Benihime
So I am wondering, when people have "Near death" experiences do they really see heaven?

i don't mean to ruin the suprise of death for you, but ...
when your life passes before your eyes, it is witnessed starting from the point of death and going backwards to the origin of being, and all is heard backwards ....

eden = edun
edun [mirror] nude

boots [mirror] stood

foot ball
fut bal [mirror] lad tuf = lad tough
guys who are tough play football

trophy is nothing more than proof of an effort
trophy = trofe [mirror] efort = effort

in [mirror] ni
lip [reversed] pil

in lip = lip in [mirror] ni pil = nipple

new copies of me?
new = nu
mes = plural for me = mes
nu mes [mirror] sem un = semun (needed for making new copies of me)

from my god's perspective he told me creation was his holy ... god said:
"my holy"
my = mi
holy = hole
mihole [mirror] elohim ... ancient name for god

one of you did elohim ...
l u did elohim
ludid eloh im [mirror] mi hole bibul = my holy bible

sue seige = su sej [mirror] jes us = geez, us = jesus

inner = inr
eye = i
inner eye = inri = INRI (consult webster's for definition)

opposite of applause is "boo"
stupid and ignorant peoples say "duh"
boo duh = buddha

con few shush = confucious

when god is all and the lightbulb in your head turns on ... and you realize that god is all .... "all ahhh!" ..... all ah .... allah

seek writ = secret

be not afraid .... but my god is coming

reply to post by soul of integrity


i have no clue what your talking about

lost in a sea of confusion=
noisufnoc fo aes a ni tsol

Originally posted by Aggamemnon
reply to post by soul of integrity

 

i have no clue what your talking about

of course you do, but you are too afraid of yourself to even admit to yourself what yourself is ....

and as you are only capable of holding what you know of yourself up as the comparison when you judge reality, the boundry between you and reality becomes what it is you know of yourself.

in other words ...

you as the observer ..
you as the one judging ...
your only basis for reference when judging anything is what you know of yourself, your own actions and behaviors, from your own intentionality, from your own intentions, from your own priorities ....

and you are so dishonest with yourself you are incapable of being honest with yourself.

are you going to sit there and take this from me?
are you prepared to accept that i have mastered empathy more than you have?
are you going to be able to admit to yourself that i know you better than you know yourself?
are you going to be able to admit to yourself that i know you better than you know yourself?

are you capable of recognizing yourself for what yourself is, or are you going to continue to be dishonest with yourself?

what is your #1 priority?
what are your chosen priorities?
you tell me what it is you think your priorities are that are what governs over your intentionality, which is what governs over your actions and behaviors ...

if you are the sum of your actions and behaviors ....
if your actions and behaviors are defined by your intentions ....
if your intentions are governed by your priorities ....
what is it that you are?
i await your response.
then i'll share some truisms with you i know.


earlier you posted :
"leave no one behind" or something to that effect ...

i'll share some thoughts on this soon.

be careful the fights you pick. because when it comes down to it, when all else is stripped away, all that will be left is the truth ...

if you choose to engage with me in a discussion or debate
you will soon find out that truth will be trump

proceed with caution.

"convince an evolutionist that the God of Scripture is real..."

Why? A person either has faith or they don't. A person believes what they believe. Are you not confident in you beliefs? I would think if you were confident in your beliefs, you wouldn't need anyone to disprove your beliefs or prove them...

I have faith that in unshakable. There isn't a person or group on the planet that could change how I feel. I am one with God. I am also a firm believer in evolution. The God of scripture is a joke. God just is. Let Him be.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I have faith that in unshakable. There isn't a person or group on the planet that could change how I feel. I am one with God. I am also a firm believer in evolution.

well said, and ditto for me!

my god is also in evolution!
my god put all answers for me right under my nose! my mouth, words!
my god put all answers for me at the tip of my fingers, this keyboard, words!!!!

my god knows the future, hundreds of years in advance:
evolution?

fact: in the last 15 years evolutionists/geologist/archeologists/scientists .. have all agreed that the first feathers on the planet of earth developed on/from the raptor class of dinosaurs!!!!

fact: mainstream evolution believes all birds evolved from dinosaurs!!!!

fact: the truth was encrypted and encoded by god in the words under my nose and at my fingertips hundreds of years before atheists and non-believers knew!!!!

facts:

did dinosaurs die out and go extinct? no, they evovled into birds and soar through the air like an eagle! is the same as saying:

did they die out? no, they soar through the air!! is the same as saying:

die out? no, soar!! is the same as saying:

die? no! soar! is the same as saying:
di? no! soar! is the same as saying:
di no soar is the same as saying:
dinosaur is the same as saying:

my god lives up to god's word (pun intended) no conflict here. god knew hundreds of years ago, before those who seek elsewhere for facts caught up with god's facts.

yep, there is no conflict between my god and evolution either ....

The God of scripture is a joke.

proof that god likes a sense of humor, too.

God just is. Let Him be.

eve says all you shun may be ...
ev "all u shun" ... may be ...
ev al u shun .... may be .....
evalushun .... maybe ...
evolution

my god is alive and well, thank you.
no conflict found

none whatsoever ....
none = zero = nothing = NUN

NUN you ask?
same as 666,
but it does take one to know one ...
so NUN is same as 6666
6666, you ask?
6666 is same as NUN (none)

i defer you to the word of god:
6th book
6th chapter
6th verse
6th word

and god so judges NONE, aka NUN:
"nun"

no conflict found here. nothing to see, none to see, nun to see ....
(laughing) .... move along .... nothing to see here ....

reply to post by soul of integrity


You sir have some pretty interesting word games going on there...
but not much else.

Originally posted by Aggamemnon
reply to post by soul of integrity

 

You sir have some pretty interesting word games going on there...
but not much else.

not much else???

ok, what's your position on the god - evolution - creationism arguement?

would i be too bold as to believe that you are not a creationist?

but do you believe in god?

maybe your an atheist?

not much else ???

sir, you have thrown down the gauntlet, and what kind of a gentleman would i be to pass up on a perfectly good opportunity to both learn, and share what i've learned.

i bet i can explane god (the monotheistic one) away in less words than you can, dear sir .....

do you accept the challenge?

who gets to go first?
i'll defer that choice to you,
you flip a coin, you call it, if you win then you can go first

reply to post by soul of integrity


I indeed accept lmao
As to whether or not i am an atheist... i am undecided. I have seen plenty of good and plenty of bad done in the name of god.

reply to post by Aggamemnon


ok.

fact 1: an atheist is one who does not subscribe to the belief of a superior being, aka: no one greater

fact 2: the first commandment

fact 3: first commandment demonstrates god is a self avowed atheist, he says he is god, no other god but me

fact 4: all monotheistic religions that refer to the first commandment worship a god who is an athiest.

fact 5: christian = like christ

fact 6: christ = god manifested into man

fact 7: christians take atheists and turn them into people who want to be like christ, people who want to be like god, people who want to be an atheist.

see the delima in logic?
if i were to endorse any monotheistic religion i would be endorsing this:

taking an atheist and indoctrinating him into a way of life where the goal is to be like god, the goal is to be like an atheist.

who has deceived who?
monotheistic belief systems make no sense,
unless one can disprove any of the above 7 facts.

(* i still believe in god, and monotheistic religions )

reply to post by soul of integrity


How does this apply to anything we were talking about again?