convince an evolutionist that the God of Scripture is real?

Originally posted by TheMythLives
Jesus would be upset if he was alive today.

Uhhh...He is alive today.

Originally posted by make.changes
then you would know that the body is your temple, and you shall not deface or destry your temple. it said straght up in the bible that the body is the temple, what does a temple hold but knowledge, your body holds knowledge that you dont know about and the more you harm it through living the wrong way the more you block it from obtaining this knowledge.

More accurately, it says the body of the believer is the temple of the Holy Spirit. It's not your temple. And the context in those passages was dealing with sexual sins...the point was that we're to avoid sexual impurity because these defile the temple of the Holy Spirit...i.e., our bodies.

And our bodies, for Christians that is, "contain" the Holy Spirit, not merely knowledge. And the more you sin against your own body by living in sexual impurity, the more you squelch this relationship with the Holy Spirit, who is indeed the source of true knowledge and enlightenment.

Regarding the original post, you're simply not going to be able to convince an anti-theist of the God of Scripture. And I say atheist, rather than evolutionist, because there are believers in the God of Scripture who also believe in evolution. (And others, like me, who believe in human evolution, as well as the special creation of Adam, who did not branch from the standard evolutionary tree, but was indeed created directly by God in the middle of human history.)

The atheist holds to a thoroughly naturalistic worldview. The idea of any deity is strictly off limits from the start. There can be no proof of the supernatural for the atheist, because his system allows no such proof.

Since he starts with naturalism, anything that appears to break that system is discounted and dismissed before any argument begins.

And though he may understand the content of Scripture...the claims it makes, the narrative story line, etc...he will not believe it, nor will he internally understand the spiritual meaning and gravity of it all. Such things are foolishness to him.

Atheists do convert to belief in Christ, however, and some even become profound Christian thinkers, such as C.S. Lewis. But this happens because of the Holy Spirit and his work of regeneration. We are useful in bearing witness, for sure. But in the end, it is the God himself who enlightens a man who, up til now, does not believe such a God exists.

Originally posted by make.changes


i dont think god would want the scientist to figure out how he works i believe he would want his ways to stay mysterious so this can provide quite a problem.

Anthropomorphism.

God wanting his ways to be mysterious.....?

Or the many bible references to gods vengeance, jealousy & anger. Often culminating in the extermination of whole tribes of men women and children .

Are these the attributes of a God ?


How does one go about surprising an omnipotent , omnipresent entity ?

======================================

Perhaps if Jesus had walked the Earth during the Technological Age, those of a scientific persuasion, would have all the evidence they could possible require of a unique supernatural occurrence. How an omnipotent deity did not see that ....... is probably another mystery .

=======================================

You are entitled to your beliefs and i certainly enjoy the opportunity to express what is but my humble perspective .

I just think the Zeitgeist shifts , and we as a collective modulate our behaviour . We need that dynamism to dare i say it , evolve further as the highly social animals we are.

For e.g, the bible,to my mind, represents a frozen moment in time , a record of a lifestyle and culture long since gone .
Slavery, Racism , Sexism or Genocide, are all no longer exceptable by the masses. We have moved on .... somewhat .
We need to keep on developing ....... and most importantly, to keep talking to each other .

5 AM ~ i`m shattered !
Good night ATS`ers.

[edit on 31-8-2009 by UmbraSumus]

Originally posted by wakeupcall1111
Oh, I wouldn't worry. I can 100% guarantee you that eventually EVERYONE will be convinced that the God of Scripture is real. Just depends on when they figure it out - while they still have time to be saved by accepting Jesus' sacrifice for their sin, or after it is too late and they must pay for their own sin in the lake of fire for eternity.

But they're all gonna know the truth eventually....

My prayer is that all people choose the former.

I would like to make a suggestion: please sit back and take a few minutes to think about your post and the message it is sending. Let it sink in. Now I ask you, to ask yourself: "How would I react if someone said this to me?"

How would you react, if someone came up to you and said that you must accept someone who sacrificed himself for your sins as your savior, or burn in a lake of fire for eternity?

The argument of accepting so-and-so as your savior or face the consequences is old, tired, condescending, and full of fear-mongering. This is not leading by example, this is leading via fear. To make matters worse there is always a "I pray that you will see the light" type of message at the end that's just a slap to the face.

It is no different than me saying that you must believe that mushrooms are intergalactic spaceships spying on us, and that they'll save us from our total destruction of the earth by taking us with them in their spacecraft. And if you don't believe this, then you'll be left behind to suffer, but I do wish you the best.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by ZeeSquared]

reply to post by TheMythLives


Evolution is one of the more provable theories.

Isn't atheism the absence of religion/belief?

Not to convince anyone, but this is an interesting comparison when mentioning one cell, one God-

i33.tinypic.com...

Originally posted by make.changes
to clarify im not an evolutionist im a christian who believes in the creation story of the bible. so how do you convince an evolutionist that the god of scripture is real, for all athiests and evolutionists.

Hello and welcome, make.changes. Take heed, you are not going to convince anyone in here of your beliefs. I am about as anti Christianity as they come, but...if you have some proof, other than the Bibles, which we know has been altered numerous times, please go ahead and convince us all that this planet, which is clearly millions of years old, was wholly created in 6 days, and that it is only 6000 years old. While you are at it, please convince me that the God you know isn't actually a composite of several extraterrestrial beings. Show your proof.

This is one of my biggest gripes with you religious types. WHY can't you accept my beliefs, or lack there of? I'm fine with yours and would never make any attempt to sway you to my way of thinking. Your beliefs are yours and my beliefs are mine. I'm comfortable with it, why can't you be? Don't give me that crappola about it being your christianly duty to convert us 'heathens'. Offer it up to me, and if I say no then go away.

reply to post by make.changes


First of all you understand that there is no such thing as an evolutionist. It's like saying someone is a gravitiest! An atomic theorist or anything like that. After you understand that then you have to understand that many people are Christian, follow the Bible and yet believe in evolution. so basically you are going after the wrong group here.

This thread should be retitled

"Convince an Atheist that the God of scripture if real"

Gah why is believing in evolution synonymous with not believing in god to so many Christians?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Gah why is believing in evolution synonymous with not believing in god to so many Christians?

Dishonesty and denial.

I mean, MOST people who believe in evolution are christians. Those who ignore that fact and say evolutionists are atheists are therefore dishonest and in denial.


Heheh i could say:

1) How many atheists believe in creationism?
2) How many christians believe in evolution?

1= None
2= Many

So which one is bogus? I think we can all see what is the right way, when chrsitians dont even believe their own scripture. (joke)

Originally posted by make.changes
to clarify im not an evolutionist im a christian who believes in the creation story of the bible. so how do you convince an evolutionist that the god of scripture is real, for all athiests and evolutionists.

Well, for starters u need to point out that the Darwinian Theory of Evolution is ALSO a religion. Secondly, u have to "speak" their language, meaning Physics, trignometry, et cetra.

Originally posted by xEphon
You can try convincing them with facts?
Perhaps you can try and prove the creationist theory is correct the same way evolutionist prove their theory...with science...unless science is somehow godless and God doesn't prescribe to that level of proof.

[edit on 31-8-2009 by xEphon]

I agree here with this poster, prove that Creation is the correct way t view the known scientific evidence. Remember, both evolutionists and creationists use the same scientifi evidence, jst interpret it differently. It also helps to point out the flaws in the evolution theory.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Valhall

 

Dont get me wrong. I agree with you, but I also believe that if no one was converted then the church would have failed. So I believe that conversion was a priority as well for the churches sake.

uuuuhhhmmm please corect me if im wrong, but shouldnt you take this as a sign? if people werent forced into it it would have failed LOL.



And to the OP... I thought the creationists had finally gone away? no? well looks like its back to defending logic againt those who would destroy it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


PFT creationists do NOT use the same evidence that is used to support the evolutionary theory as creationist dont HAVE any evidence...
Creationism is nothing more than another approach at trying to convert more people to their way of thinking. Evolution is also NOT a religion, it has no idealized doctrine or god/gods. it is a THEORY, an explanation for things that already happen. most religions form their "reason" for things BEFORE they look for the events it explains.

reply to post by Aggamemnon
I don't think based upon your post that you have ever looked firmly at the arguments from creation scientists. Most all of the scientific evidence is used by both sides, yet interpreted differently.

Why do u seem so angry in your reply to my post?

reply to post by Aggamemnon


Forgot to address your claim that evolution isn't a religion, what I meant is both positions requir FAITH to subscribe to, neither can be seen today> And for the purpose of our discussion I am ONLY referring to Darwinian evolutionary theory.

No man has ever seen an organism give birth to a different species other than it's kind, it's only theorized that this happens. Therefore it fails the scientific standards to be considered "fact" and not theory.

It is worth noting that only 55% of scientists believe or endorse Darwinian evolutionary theory. That basically means only half the scientists believe such to be true.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Aggamemnon

 

Forgot to address your claim that evolution isn't a religion, what I meant is both positions requir FAITH to subscribe to, neither can be seen today> And for the purpose of our discussion I am ONLY referring to Darwinian evolutionary theory.

No man has ever seen an organism give birth to a different species other than it's kind, it's only theorized that this happens. Therefore it fails the scientific standards to be considered "fact" and not theory.

It is worth noting that only 55% of scientists believe or endorse Darwinian evolutionary theory. That basically means only half the scientists believe such to be true.

Based upon YOUR claim i doubt you have even read anything on Evolution :shk: evolution is indeed going on today..... haven't u ever had the flu??? and its not about a cat randomly crapping out a dog.. THAT would be a lot more like, well spontaneous creation

reply to post by NOTurTypical



Sorry one more question... do you believe in atoms?
and maybe you should go read the definition for a SCIENTIFIC theory...


Quote from www.fsteiger.com...
"Creationists argue that evolution is "only a theory and cannot be proven."

As used in science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena.

Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A clear distinction needs to be made between facts (things which can be observed and/or measured) and theories (explanations which correlate and interpret the facts.

A fact is something that is supported by unmistakeable evidence. For example, the Grand Canyon cuts through layers of different kinds of rock, such as the Coconino sandstone, Hermit shale, and Redwall limestone. These rock layers often contain fossils that are found only in certain layers. Those are the facts.

It is a fact is that fossil skulls have been found that are intermediate in appearance between humans and modern apes. It is a fact that fossils have been found that are clearly intermediate in appearance between dinosaurs and birds.

Facts may be interpreted in different ways by different individuals, but that doesn't change the facts themselves.

Theories may be good, bad, or indifferent. They may be well established by the factual evidence, or they may lack credibility. Before a theory is given any credence in the scientific community, it must be subjected to "peer review." This means that the proposed theory must be published in a legitimate scientific journal in order to provide the opportunity for other scientists to evaluate the relevant factual information and publish their conclusions.

Creationists refuse to subject their "theories" to peer reviews, because they know they don't fit the facts. The creationist mindset is distorted by the concept of "good science" (creationism) vs. "bad science" (anything not in agreement with creationism). Creation "scientists" are biblical fundamentalists who can not accept anything contrary to their sectarian religioius beliefs"

reply to post by Aggamemnon
I've never read anything on Evolution??? In fact it has been the ONLY theory I was ALLOWED to study by LAW for my entire life. Your presumption is preposterous, evolution was shoved down my throat probably since first grade, lol.

And you say 'flu' proves Darwinian evolution? Flu viruses always "give birth" to other flu variations. Mutations LOSE genetic information my friend, not gain it. Secondly, a muation isn't evolution, flu is still flu at the end of the day.