I'm ashamed!

reply to post by Fitzgibbon



What I'm suggesting is that Free Masonry is a tool used by many evil men to further their agenda.

The only difference from the tool of organized religion and the tool of Freemasonry is that Freemasonry is cloaked in secrecy, thus making the tool far more effective in carrying out crimes, rituals, conspiracies, and evil in general.

And yes, from what I understand about freemasonry, ACCORDING TO OTHER FREEMASONS, is that their are very corrupt branches or lodges, some that even carry out the work of the occult, or what I like to refer to as: Luciferianism.

reply to post by Spooky Fox Mulder


sir, I really feel sorry for your pain, I really do, but indeed I would have to point out all shame and no supporting evidence is a speculation. It is , as you have pointed out futile to see groups or factions of any kind as good or evil, to do so would be the grossest of underestimations as to the complexity of reality.

As I have mentioned in a previous thread, if everyone is in the same reality, you would honestly expect people to get on better, over this whole evil/saint stuff. I think that there is way more to the freemasons of extreme and significant importance in terms of historical, architectural, artistic and occult (def: secret) ritualism and symbolism's. It has been made clear to me through supporting historical evidence that regardless of whom or whatever agenda they serve, there are overwhelming historical supporting data as to the masons heritage in early masonry (for instance solomons temple).

I have heard stories about freemasonry which defy more than explanation, in some cases they have defied common morality, and although that is not evil, and I am not arguing for or against that, this is merely a neutral point. It is a mistake to think the question is whether it is good or evil, such an argument could not be farther from the attention required of something that is hidden in plain view. Higher masonry degrees have access to tools practically unfathomable to the average person.

You must understand that the knights of the templar, much like the knights of malta, would kill anyone who stood in their way, they were not at direct appointment to anyone, quite mercentile, by all known historical definitions. Please, masonry historians feel free to correct me, I know people involved with masonry, and trust me, get rid of that shame and get some facts, and if you think there is not plenty of support evidence that could apply to 'evilness' in masonry - you're wrong - there is..

again as you rightly point out it is not the tools we should fear, no matter how powerful, wonderful, cryptic or occult.. it is the bearer, and it always will be in my opinion anyway

my 2 cents, hope that wasn't too controversial hah, so I'm not disagreeing with mulder, just.. this is a 2 sided 2 cents *chuckle



A

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

What I'm suggesting is that Free Masonry is a tool used by many evil men to further their agenda.

Seems just a tad counterproductive for "evil men" to be surreptitiously attempting to use an organisation focussed on good works and moral self-improvement to further their evil agenda doesn't it? Why not associate with the Cosa Nostra or Hell's Angels or the Conservative Party?

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
The only difference from the tool of organized religion and the tool of Freemasonry is that Freemasonry is cloaked in secrecy, thus making the tool far more effective in carrying out crimes, rituals, conspiracies, and evil in general.

I think you have your comparisons bass-ackwards. The inner workings of the world's religions are cloaked in far greater secrecy than any Regular Masonic organisation. Freemasonry's "secrecy" hardly holds a candle to that of religion. Ergo, if Freemasonry is evil at its level of "secrecy", what far-greater level of evil must be happening within the shadowy halls of the world's religions?

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
And yes, from what I understand about freemasonry, ACCORDING TO OTHER FREEMASONS, is that their are very corrupt branches or lodges, some that even carry out the work of the occult, or what I like to refer to as: Luciferianism.

Anybody joker can hang out a shingle and call himself a Mason and gather together a group that calls itself a masonic lodge. Nothing to prevent that and if they cross some moral, ethical or legal bound, the likes of you don't make the distinction between them and Regular Masons. Regular Masonry (the Masonry practised by virtually every self-identifying Mason in the world) is what most people think of when the subject comes up and the various Grand Lodges ensure that any other Grand Lodge they associate with can be held up to the same esteem as their own. Irregular lodges (a la P2 for instance) are simply not representative of real Masonry.

In the same manner, do you think the Westboro Baptist church (the one that protests around soldiers' funerals and such) is representative of Baptists? If so, you're making the same kind of mistaken assumption as you're making about Masonry.

7-11 clerks worship the devil. they are evil to the core. Proof? naw. Proof is never necessary when presenting a huge straw man argument. Cary on.

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
While not all Catholic Priests are bad men... there are still many that rape young boys.

Many catholic priests rape young boys, while only some dont?

Freemasonry....effective in carrying out crimes, rituals, conspiracies, and evil in general.

Are you sure?

Originally posted by Spooky Fox Mulder
I went with the flow and I was bashing the Freemasons as well, just like most of the people here.






Peace,
Mulder



[edit on 31-8-2009 by Spooky Fox Mulder]

Such a weird ending - compared to the first part...
Tricky one...

And he went out the sunset...
I have no clue what to reply to such words..

Is it a Quiz?!

Originally posted by St Vaast
There's only ONE other group which enjoys talking about itself ad infinitum as Freemasons ... and that's jews


NEITHER belongs in ATS, in my opinion

Could you clarify that statement?

I am unable to understand if you mean that talking about Jews and Masons doesn't belong on ATS, or that Jews and Masons don't belong on ATS.

Originally posted by Spooky Fox Mulder
I'm ashamed of all you people out there who bash the Freemasons.

I'm ashamed of all you people out there who believe that the Freemasons are TEH EVIL.

I'm ashamed of all you people out there who don't even know what the Freemasons are all about, yet you judge and condemn them to be of Satanic origin.

I have a few friends that are free masons and they are lovely people. That said, the world isn't perfect. Some people will always want to use power and influence to furhter their own agenda, I'm slightly ashamed myself to say this, but it's in our nature.

I'd agree that on the whole, freemasons are a perfectly honest group, but there will always be 'bad eggs' no matter what demographic your targetting. The problem with the free masons is that they have much more power and influence than most.

I'd also have to say that the way it is structured, attaining degree's of enlightenment, private study into 'hidden knowledge' aswell being choosen as a 'select few', I feel that this may inherently instill a sense of elitism, even if it is unwanted. Couple this with their charitable work, funding and foundations it could really go to your head, would you feel proud, maybe even superior if you were a part of this?

I'm ashamed of all you people out there who never do your homework and just go with the flow and accuse the Freemasons of being the Illuminati, to eat children, perform occult rituals, to take over the world, etc.

I personally think that the Illuminati may be a sub-sect within the freemasons, powerful, like-minded individuals that have gained alot of money and influence through their work and their vast networks of contacts and influence.

Eat children, probably not. Perform 'Occult rituals'? to the unlearned eye maybe, try and take over the world? Possibly, as a collective I'd say they'd have the power and the reach, but as I said earlier, I believe them to be a sub-group, rather than the whole.

So, re-cap, freemasons as a whole are quite fine. Yet no matter were you look, bad people will surely be. I'd say even more so within a group focused upon collective power and wealth (helping each other out, not literally a collective wealth/power), it would be a magnet for certain types no?

It seems you've swung from one extreme to the other, perhaps settle for a middle of the road with a good firm pinch of salt attitude?

Either way, we're probably wrong.

EMM

(Freemasons in fact originate from Knights Templar)

I believe they are NOT associated with them. There is a masonic branch of the knights templar no doubt, but I believe there is no connection between them. I also know York Rite is also somewhat associated with them. But link me some proof otherwise.



[edit on 31-8-2009 by fordrew]

Yeah I always thought the freemasons were a bunch of old guys donating to children's hospitals and riding around on miniature vehicles.......or is that a Shriner? The thing about the masons is, there are bigger fish to fry, simple as that. My great grandpa was a freemason, I can't recall what degree he became though, might ask about that. Lots and lots of people around us are freemasons. The argument is, none of those people are REALLY freemasons, they are just part of the club that is seen by the world. You should look up Leo Zagami, he claims degree of 99, when there is supposedly only 33.

I'm ashamed humans resort to secrecy so they aren't seen as liars and cheats.

Deal with it Mulder.

I'm ashamed you all don't no why the cops really hit people. so on, so forth.

We all participate, for us to blame is just what "they" wan't. i agree, i am ashamed humans are ashamed of other humans, and for what reason? a title. something completely physcological. a mind game. most fall. some step away from this reality into their own, and observe. and they see much more. stop blaming anybody, but yourself for allowing it to express negative feelings.

sadly, this society has far to many opinions due to this "freedom of choice". we create from what we have. we never try and start over to create something totally new and improved. thats the problem. ignorance in thinking this is the way, or not liking it and following it. to you who don't like this reality, do not participate in it. stop allowing everyday things in this reality illuminate your life. find other ways to extend your energy. not joining something; creating something great, but with true logic. not what we make as logic.

[edit on 31-8-2009 by gandhi]

I am not ashamed. I don't like Masons because they're [SNIP].

When they shroud themselves and their order in secrecy, what do you expect? People will always treat secret societies with suspicion.

My uncles' a Mason, and he's a [snip].

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 1-9-2009 by Gemwolf]

I have no feelings about freemasonry myself but I thought it
might bear mentioning who the first persecutors of the freemasons
were. Got your guesses ready? The spanish inquisition.
They didn't just pick on Cathars, conversos, witches and jews, I
don't know their reasoning for it but I would sure be interested to find out.

Originally posted by chi_z
Yeah I always thought the freemasons were a bunch of old guys donating to children's hospitals and riding around on miniature vehicles.......or is that a Shriner? The thing about the masons is, there are bigger fish to fry, simple as that. My great grandpa was a freemason, I can't recall what degree he became though, might ask about that. Lots and lots of people around us are freemasons. The argument is, none of those people are REALLY freemasons, they are just part of the club that is seen by the world. You should look up Leo Zagami, he claims degree of 99, when there is supposedly only 33.

I have not looked at the guy you mentioned, but there is a sub group called the Memphis Misriam. (sp?) they have an additional 66 degrees. The first 33 are supposedly the same as the Scottish Rite. From my understanding, it is a defunct rite at this point, but I am not sure. there was a member of ATS who claimed to be of that rite.