The Mozart Effect

Originally posted by JayinAR

I think people like Beethoven and Mozart ran the full gambit in nearly everything they wrote. And as Proto has pointed out, they were provided for in such a way that they could devote a GREAT DEAL of their time to working on a single piece.

This may be significant. A pop/rock/r&b track can be made within a few hours. A single classical piece probably took months of devotion.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Hi sky
Can you show me how the Mozart effect has influenced places like Hati, Rwanda,
Sudan, Colombia, Juarez, Israel?

It has not been deliberately applied in troubled areas, to my knowledge. But it would not hurt to apply it!

reply to post by Skyfloating


i could see the customer base thing. if I'm in a store, there is nothing more irritating than these places that have to have this boonga boonga boonga type music playing and cranked up to brain melting levels. same even goes for music that I'm into

Some really well thought out comments going on in here, nice to see...

I don't listen to that much classical these days, time is not on my side - but I tend to agree with the hypothesised effects of it - I think there's a lot of strength in not having vocals and I think as Westerners we sometimes get a little non-plussed by music without. There are some really good examples of non-vocal stuff that I enjoy and feel exhilerated by, stuff like Godspeed You Black Emperor and Mogwai, plus a lot of jazz (without vocal) I really, really enjoy - I really take an interest in the individual instruments and how they're interacting - although I'm an (amateur) musician so...

On the other hand I do like listening to a lot of stuff in non-English - Tinariwen, Amadou and Mariam, Fela Kuti, Sigur Ros, some latin stuff too, when I don't understand the lyrics I really pay attention to them more and find it very interesting.

Somebody earlier mentioned things with lots of layers in and thinking of something like "The Downward Spiral" by Nine Inch Nails is a great example, each song is generally an "average" rock song, verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge etc, yet the more you listen to it, the more you here, there are so many sounds in there, each emphasising the whole and contributing, it's an amazingly dense album and one I can keep discovering newness in.

Other examples of music I find intellectually "interesting" are Tool, Dillinger Escape Plan, Don Caballero and Battles - bands that seem to read the RULEBOOK (lol) and then chuck it away - doing really off the wall stuff - oh yeah, don't forget most of Mike Pattons' projects too (Tomahawk, Mr Bungle etc).

To the guy that mentioned Cocteau Twins earlier - if you get anything buy "Garlands" it's superb.

reply to post by JayinAR


Um. I am sorry. I wasn't trying to upset you. I am really interested in music theory and in studying the history of music, and your insights are great. I was only hoping you might expound on your opinion so I might understand it better. It's not that I don't agree, but that I want to understand.

reply to post by jokei


Sigur Ros is totally awesome.Otherworldly.

Just thought I´d throw that in there

reply to post by TheFaiThfulSkepTic


Yes I agree. I think that vocals attempt to supplant what can be achieved by exactly what you said. The emotions that can be reached with each tone and measure can be more accurate if the music is composed correctly, without vocals.

reply to post by jokei


Your mention of "The Downward Spiral" caught my eye. I too can find something new each time I listen to it. I find it amazing that Trent can often use his own vocals as actual "parts of sound", wherein they become a musical layer unto themselves, adding to the whole structure. IMO, this models much of the musical theory Beethoven laid out. I wonder if the Mozart Effect can apply to his more esoteric, instrumental pieces...?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Who listens to white noise every day for 2 months? By "white noise," I think those researchers meant top-40 rock music.

White noise can refer to the diffusion of an electric guitar (as heard in many so-called indie-rock compositions) or to a waterfall or to radio-static. Personally I find it soothing, but I guess the researchers did not get any intelligence gain out of it.

Thanks for the information. I think the reason classical music is so appealing to the mind is because it is very mathematical. Classical music focuses almost entirely on music theory, which is very math-based. Jazz music, on the other hand, relies on improvisation. Many genres of modern music rely on neither of those things, but I wouldn't want to delve into my dismay at modern pop here.

reply to post by NW111


Nice bit of music, but did the conductor dude steal Michael Jacksons' hair ?

This is nothing new. Classical music has been proved countless times to help the brain and is good for studying.

my favourite right now are The Planets, by Gustav Holst.
Especially Mars... as someone who loves heavy music, this song is as heavy as it comes. Very dramatic and has amazing buildups of tension.

Last time i listened to it, it had been a while since i played it, and got that 'tingle' right in the middle of the brain as if the soundwaves were playing yet another instrument, housed inside my cranium. There have been very few bands or composers that have struck this chord with me,, and that music is always cherished.

If anyone can recommend some darker, more epic-sounding classical for me then it would be greatly appreciated.... this style has always been more inspirational to me.

reply to post by obilesk


It's definitely an album I feel sharper after listening to, I get a real kick out of King Crimson when they're doing the more uptempo stuff.

Two other albums I should mention Beatles "Sgt Peppers" and Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the moon" - as what I'd consider to be good examples of multilayered parts, maybe a cool thread on BTS talking about Production...
"Pet Sounds" vs "OK Computer"

Edit to add:

What's the consensus on modern stuff like Kronos Quartet, Phillip Glass etc?




[edit on 1/9/0909 by jokei]

Originally posted by jokei

On the other hand I do like listening to a lot of stuff in non-English - Tinariwen, Amadou and Mariam, Fela Kuti, Sigur Ros, some latin stuff too, when I don't understand the lyrics I really pay attention to them more and find it very interesting.

Somebody earlier mentioned things with lots of layers in and thinking of something like "The Downward Spiral" by Nine Inch Nails is a great example, each song is generally an "average" rock song, verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge etc, yet the more you listen to it, the more you here, there are so many sounds in there, each emphasising the whole and contributing, it's an amazingly dense album and one I can keep discovering newness in.

Other examples of music I find intellectually "interesting" are Tool, Dillinger Escape Plan, Don Caballero and Battles - bands that seem to read the RULEBOOK (lol) and then chuck it away - doing really off the wall stuff - oh yeah, don't forget most of Mike Pattons' projects too (Tomahawk, Mr Bungle etc).

To the guy that mentioned Cocteau Twins earlier - if you get anything buy "Garlands" it's superb.

Absolutely dead on with the DEP and Mr Bungle references. Having the privelige of seeing Patton's Fantomas project play live was the most insane concert experience of my life. Talk about great composers, and players being able to play THE MOST erratic music put together done perfectly to a tee.

The band ISIS does this for me as well.. especially the album Panopticon... very epic melodies that will transport you to many different places. This is the type of music i can see having a positive effect on the brain just the same as classical -- it will capture your mind and imagination. Even when used as background music it will subtly give your creativity a boost, where as pop music tends to be turned into wallpaper art, bland and unnoticeable.

NIN's double album The Fragile is a beautiful example of modern music with more of a focus on composition than many of its contemporaries.

EDIT to mention that Estradasphere is a must-listen to band for thjose who love classical instruments in a contemporary manner, especially the albums Its Understood and Palace of Mirrors... my recommendation for the day. Incredible stuff.

Also.. if pink floyd does it for you then Atom Heart Mother is an amazing track that is all instrumental and very huge sounding. There are vocals at one point but they are more sounds, like an alien language, and sounds mre like instruments... but yes.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by kidney thief]

reply to post by obilesk


Oh, you weren't upsetting me.

I was just saying that I didn't have the time to wade through tons of classical work to find chord progressions you find in the new songs.

I don't know. It is hard to put into words. Ummm... Classical composers weren't bound to a specific "progression" if you will. Their work was so involved that it ran the gambit. You could snip a Beethoven piece and find direct parallels between what you just snipped and, modern jazz, for instance.
Melodic ascending and descending scale patterns were often used by classical composers. Today, that is what we call bluegrass.
So on and so forth, but I think if you were to investigate, you would find most of the progressions in each of these masterwork pieces.

reply to post by kidney thief


Well said, I'm not a big fan of Isis, but know what you mean.

Neursosis are an interesting band in that vein though, especially the "Times of grace" with the Tribes of Neurot companion album, it's essentially the same band doing two albums that you can play together or individually. The second album is all made of different insect noises, apparently the 2 together are quite a mindblowing experience.

There's also "Zaire Eureeka" by the Flaming Lips, which comes on 4 cds that you can mix together to your own satisfaction - I actually own that and it's a bit of a nightmare to play, but the amount of sounds going on in there is quite amazing and for an epic listening experience it's right up there.

I really love music that you keep finding new things in and something that can really open up a new dimension is having a decent pair of headphones, total immersion.

Also, I've heard a few albums in surround sound, some done very well and others not so well, but a good album in surround sound is awesome.

"Atom Heart Mother" is great and there's a film soundtrack they did (can't remember the name) that is really good.

Edit to add:

To bring this closer to topic, I propose that music with more layers (complex) lends itself to more engaged (brain activity) listening, for example I still like ABBA, musically they're amazing, there's loads of stuff going on in there and the vocals are great, every time you listen, there's always another thing to hear. The problem with a lot of modern pop is that it's so homogenised and churned out cheapily is that producers don't go to the lengths creatively.

I think I might use the name Symphonic in reference as well as classical, if I ever have kids, they'll definitely be sleeping to nice gentle music.

P.S - the other Floyd album I was thinking of was Move: film soundtrack.

[edit on 2/9/0909 by jokei]

reply to post by jokei


Neurosis is intense. I was big into them a few years back but the overwhelming negativity got to me for a bit. Their music is still cool to draw or paint to if it comes on my shuffle, the layers and deep bass always draw me in. What they did with the Neurot stuff blew my mind, concept-wise. I had always wondered about how one could do that before coming across it, so i will definitely check out that flaming lips album. The pink floyd soundtrack you are thinking about is Music From the Film 'More', it is pretty cool tho a friend of mine saw the movie and said it wasnt that great, and the use of Floyd in the actual soundtrack was disappointing.

Not to distract from the OP tho. Seem like we have some similar tates, anything more along the lines of classical you could recommend that draws off the same themes as the music we were discussing?

i have reading about that mozard affect of yours^^ and i want to say that yes...there is some mozard songs that are quite relaxing...while i play colin mcrae rally dirt,but there are some that are exactly operas..and its driving me insane making me crash at every tree!
you know..ill just go find the carmen song^_^i always loved it.

reply to post by kidney thief


Cool. Frankly my classical knowledge is fairly slim and I like and know stuff like Mussorgsky, Wagner and Holst - I'd be interested if anyone could recommend some heavier composers.