The Mozart Effect

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I have been a heavy metal and rock and roll drummer for 37 years now, but Beethoven really rocks. I think Kiss fans like Mozart!

Which is why I posted a Beethoven-track in the OP rather than a Mozart-track.

Interesting overall post.

Though at first glance this might seem a bit off topic I do believe it’s entirely relevant to the effect of music.

Beethoven like Mozart like Shakespeare and others were Renaissance Men. Europe had stagnated badly and actually regressed in the arts and sciences during the Dark Ages rule and hegemony of the Papacy. The rigid structure to life enforced by Rome precluded any forms of art or science that weren’t entirely religious in nature and meeting with Rome’s approval.

There was a rigid societal hierarchy in place comprised of the Clergy, the Nobles and then serfs/peasants who in many ways were slaves to the Nobles and enjoyed far fewer rights within society than the Nobility of the day did.

It was in fact the artistry of common men like Mozart and Beethoven and Shakespeare that touched yet another chord within the nobles of the day that started narrowing the gap between the Nobles and the commoners, not only through the bodies of work that the commoners like Beethoven created that the Nobles found so much appeal and respect in but in how art gave the common man the opportunity which he could be not just equal too a Noble in worth and effect as a human being but even greater than. Once again no one demonstrated this better or more than Beethoven, who it could be argued changed the social landscape of Europe for ever with one single act of defiance and arrogance.

A very influential Prussian Count of the day had summoned Beethoven to give a private performance with an offer of patronage that Beethoven spurned because of the Count’s political predisposition towards the common man in France which at that time was going through the growing pains of throwing off the hegemony of the Holy Roman Empire. The Count considered the common French man to be nothing but rabble and chattel that had no such right; Beethoven considered them to be heroic and brave and applauded their determination and struggle.

Yet despite this difference the universal appeal of Beethoven’s artistry had great appeal to the Count as having Beethoven play in your parlor for your guests was a sign of great status, influence, power and wealth to other aristocrats.

He was stunned when Beethoven turned down the invitation and his generous offer to become a patron, and issued the invitation once more reminding Beethoven of his status as a commoner when he did.

Beethoven scoffed and declared “The world is full of Counts and Countesses, Dukes and Duchesses, Princes and Princesses but there is only one Beethoven and I am he, and I say no to thee”.

It was an offence in etiquette and protocol that could have easily seen Beethoven executed for the insubordination or had he been Noble the precursor to a duel of honor. Yet as nervous days ensued the bulk of Europe’s aristocracy lined up not behind the offended Count but behind the common artist that they all so loved.

Beethoven through his arrogance and courage and stubbornness had successfully crossed a bridge no commoner had crossed before, he proved as a commoner that his worth was every bit as great and in fact greater due to the outcome than that of a Noble.

It literally changed the political makeup of Europe forever and was a precursor of the attitudes and behaviors that would lead to the limiting of power of the Nobles over the commoners and the American and French Revolutions.

While other Renaissance artists like Michael Angelo and Shakespeare had great appeal through their paintings and plays and stories, it was music as well as Beethoven that had a far more universal appeal that touched everyone and everybody in the most powerful of ways as evidenced by that important melodrama and backdrop to history.

It is said the pen is mightier than the sword, but I believe it could be argued that in many ways that Music is even more powerful than the Nuclear Bomb!

Music has changed the way the world thinks and interacts more than once.

Is there a Mozart effect? I would say there definitely is a Music Effect.






[edit on 31/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Great post. I don't think it's by mistake that they do not promote the playing of classical music in public places for its benefits.

Like you, I like all kinds of music and I often listen to different genres for periods of time. For example, for a week or two I'll be into heavy stuff, then go on to dance music, then for a couple weeks classical, jazz, etc. During the times I listen to the classical music, my mind feels clearer and sharper, I have less road rage feelings and I don't have a lot of anxiety. So I see it very clearly how it affects me firsthand. What you said about the lowered crime rate should be one of the biggest motivators for public places to play classical instead of the other goofy crap they play.

Originally posted by Stillalive
i like the idea,but ill convert them to 432

Do you actually notice any difference ? Most of my music sounds almost identical after conversion so Im not sure - are you just thinking of Classical music which was made originally at 432 but altered to 440 in recent years??

Originally posted by ziggystar60
I am not sure Mozart's music makes me any smarter. But it sure helps me stay sane.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. Frequently, I listen to both classical & new age (ambient, downtempo) music at work to keep from going nuckin futs.

Someone mentioned New Age music. Enya is considered New Age but II feel she is different than other New Age. Her music does for me the same as Classical does for me.

Skyfloating, what do you think about Enya? Do you feel she is close to this effect?

Skyfloating,

As an addendum to my previous post, I want to ask you if you feel it is possible to reap similar benefits as those ascribed to the Mozart Effect from other types of music?

In reference to what others have stated (including myself ), could it be frequency, composition, complexity? Musical theory or:

Originally posted by EnlightenUp

harmonious for the most part, relying on very consonant chord constructs based on harmonic series (or close enough in current equal temprament tuning)...

Or does classical contain something unique that cannot, or has yet to, be reproduced in other types of music? It seems to me that since Bach and others practically invented music theory, we should see the same effects from the select modern offerings that are bound by their composers to the same theory.

What do you think?

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Someone mentioned New Age music. Enya is considered New Age but II feel she is different than other New Age. Her music does for me the same as Classical does for me.

Skyfloating, what do you think about Enya? Do you feel she is close to this effect?

Ive listened to all enya albums (especially Shepherd Moon) hundreds of times. Absolutely love them. Thats the better kind of new age music...

Originally posted by obilesk
What do you think?

The questions you pose towards me are the reasons I opened the thread. Im not sure. Ive experimented with different types of music for different types of ocassions. And softer classical music seems to be the only music that is no annoyance no matter for which ocassion.

Maybe its "channelled" or "divinely inspired"...then again, maybe all music and all artforms are "channelled" to an extent.

Maybe its to do with being harmonious.

Whats certain for me is that many other types of music have positive effects. But different.

What do YOU think?

[edit on 31-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Lexxica
Great post. I don't think it's by mistake that they do not promote the playing of classical music in public places for its benefits.

Like you, I like all kinds of music and I often listen to different genres for periods of time. For example, for a week or two I'll be into heavy stuff, then go on to dance music, then for a couple weeks classical, jazz, etc. During the times I listen to the classical music, my mind feels clearer and sharper, I have less road rage feelings and I don't have a lot of anxiety. So I see it very clearly how it affects me firsthand. What you said about the lowered crime rate should be one of the biggest motivators for public places to play classical instead of the other goofy crap they play.

I had a phase for a few months where I listened to "dancehall reggae" in the car, which is a certain beat and a certain type of rap music.

A few weeks ago I switched to classical music, and the difference in driving-experience is awesome. I feel refreshed when I arrive at destination. In any case, it seems to be more appropriate for driving while the former is probably better in nightlife or party.

[edit on 31-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

I'm not a big fan of this band but this track definitely does it for me. Great piece of work.



After the 2:00 mark there's that highly pleasant thing I was talking about before. I'm sure I can think of plenty of other examples but can anyone else?

Originally posted by Clickfoot
After the 2:00 mark there's that highly pleasant thing I was talking about before. I'm sure I can think of plenty of other examples but can anyone else?

Are you referring to resonance or overtone here?

Here's the summary:

Math comes from music ratios but Plato transformed ratios into a "divide and average" geometry by making DISHARMONY through irrational numbers. So, for example, 9/8 is the major 2nd music interval and 9/8 cubed is the tritone, the most dissonant music interval aka the "Devil's Interval" -- and 9/8 cubed was also the first proof for the square root of two, the foundation of Western science and music.

Western music is actually mind control since it's based on the square root of two -- first expanded as the major third being the cube root of two or 5/4, two major second intervals of 9/8 -- approximated. Polyphonic classical music relies on left-brain dominant for processing the melodic structures with themes and variations as linear time storylines.

Nonwestern music used the original 1-4-5 music intervals (the basis of blues and later rock-pop) found worldwide for transducing sound into light. The natural resonance overtones do not "return" to the same octave -- called the "circle of fifths" in Western music. In reality the natural frequency overtones are an infinite spiral so that by listening to the source of natural sound -- through trance chanting -- a resonance actually creates electromagnetic free energy for light healing. This is in tune with Nature because it's based on the philosophy that space can not contain time -- that humans exist within consciuosness which can not be seen.

So civilization is the projection of a "divide and average" math which is out of tune with the truth of reality -- the foundation of pure consciousness whereby time is not measured as spatial distance (i.e. speed or frequency) -- with Western music and math the logic is based on the commutative property so that A x B = B x A but in the simple ratios of 2:3, the Perfect 5th and 3:4, the Perfect 4th, we have C to G is 2:3 and G to C is 3:4 -- so that C x G does not equal G x C.

My discovery detailed in my article "Against Archytas" was further corroborated by math professor Joe Mazur who encouraged me to submit my research to a math journal and then later to the Indian Journal of the History of Science -- I declined the latter, the first was rejected since I'm challenging the very foundation of math. I do document mathematicians acknowledging the music ratios as the secret for solving the doubling of the cube precisely -- the creation of geometric magnitude and irrational numbers. The mathematicians do not know the answer and now that I've provided it the mathematicians do not want to acknowledge the deeper logical reality, recognized in India and elsewhere.

nonduality.com... gives further details on how Plato's Matrix plan is played out by the "music logarithmic spiral" as the future of technology, relying on mass ritual sacrifice.


reply to post by Skyfloating

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Thats some pretty impressive posting there. Beethoven seems to have been somewhat of a hero

[edit on 31-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
Do you actually notice any difference ? Most of my music sounds almost identical after conversion so Im not sure - are you just thinking of Classical music which was made originally at 432 but altered to 440 in recent years??

I´d like to know this too because a lot of people think this is the key, but I havent noticed any difference at all.

reply to post by drew hempel


Thats over my head. But thanks for taking the time to post it for the benefit of those who understand

Originally posted by spacebot
It is amazing!
Even if you watch the youtube comments everyone has to share a little story relative to this music or the certain symphonies uploaded and all of them are positive comments! I didn't find a single negative comment for every one of these musical pieces the OP posted in youtube

I noticed that the lack of negative comments on youtube too. On just about everything people have something bad to say...I bet you could statistically prove that with classical music that is much less so.

To all that I did not respond to: Thanks for the awesome posts confirming the "effect" in your life without even needing studies to confirm it.

[edit on 31-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

I've always loved Bach's Six Unaccompanied Cello Suites, whenever anything's wrong, or I just need a bit of space, on it goes and my heart swells and everything's fine.

It also works very well whenever I'm writing anything, I find I can concentrate much better, but as a side effect, most of what I write seems to be set around an Autumn/Winter feel, must be the feeling evoked by the music, has a very earthy, autumnal feel, which I love, as they're my favourite seasons.

I'm all for a bit of classical music, does the trick every time.

reply to post by obilesk


I think that it is possibly due to the fact that the newer stuff never really resolves the theory that people like Bach invented, as you say.

Most stuff today is simply working on snippets of these concepts. I-IV-V progression. Jazz. So on and so forth.
This is just a particular piece of theory. Not the entirety.

I think people like Beethoven and Mozart ran the full gambit in nearly everything they wrote. And as Proto has pointed out, they were provided for in such a way that they could devote a GREAT DEAL of their time to working on a single piece.

And work on it they did. Very hard. With a VERY structured approach. Simple, profound and eloquent.
The Piano Concerto No.5 in E-flat major was a brilliant choice to include in the OP. It is beautiful.
It is simple.
The melody is clearly defined and follows a rigorous approach throughout, but the accompaniment makes it nearly divine!

I also agree with the poster who says it is all about theory. I can't stress enough how structured these pieces are. They are brilliant.