Heart Surgeon tells of Resurrection from the Dead

reply to post by moocowman


ok,let's put it this way!

If I was to choose between being a Slave to God and a Slave to Satan, I would rather choose Slave to God!
I mean, what is so bad of being a slave to a God who wants what's best for you?
I know I may sound like a 'nut', but a slave in the New Testament sense is loving everyone in equality,even considering yourself lower then the next person!
Is that bad?
A slave to Satan would mean I would have to follow his rules and laws,even do things the way he wanted them done...I would consider myself above everyone and think only of myself.
I mean if I thought I was better then everyone else and above anyone else, then I would definately not care about anyone but myself!

The Servant(slave)is not greater then it's master!
If I was the master and treated my servant badly, that would make me bad in Gods eyes!
Is this not a good teaching?
I mean whether we believe it or not, we are ALL servants(slaves) of what we choose to do and follow in life!
I dont like the WORD slave because it has been MISS-USED and gives out a bad message to what it really means.


ICXC NIKA
helen

So you mean to tell me that people can believe in astro projection, demons, pschics, children of the light but when it comes to something about Jesus Christ it is BS. Wow, how biased and closed minded people are.

reply to post by helen670

ok,let's put it this way! If I was to choose between being a Slave to God and a Slave to Satan, I would rather choose Slave to God!

Will you disappoint me here Helen, although your response is quite common for an xtian.

You are asked a hard question but instead of answering it you answer another containing similar words.

By this silence am I to assume that you Helen believe that Africans abducted from their homes, murdered tortured raped and enslaved, is acceptable to you because you are a white christian and jesus condones it ?

Originally posted by west1914
So you mean to tell me that people can believe in astro projection, demons, pschics, children of the light but when it comes to something about Jesus Christ it is BS. Wow, how biased and closed minded people are.

Don't be ridiculous there is equally no evidence for the others either, so it's all BS until proven, it just happens that jesus has the biggest following of BS ers than the others that's all.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by helen670

 

ok,let's put it this way! If I was to choose between being a Slave to God and a Slave to Satan, I would rather choose Slave to God!

Will you disappoint me here Helen, although your response is quite common for an xtian.

You are asked a hard question but instead of answering it you answer another containing similar words.

By this silence am I to assume that you Helen believe that Africans abducted from their homes, murdered tortured raped and enslaved, is acceptable to you because you are a white christian and Jesus condones it ?

I believe that NO people should be treated as such!
I never said that I condone such cruelty and to have people treated with such EVIL...neither does Jesus Christ condone such EVIL...
Maybe ALL should do a research into WHO it is that 'CONDONE' such perverse atrocities, and there, you will have your answer, as to why such EVIL is allowed to keep on happening, even in our time!
Why is this allowed to happen?
I guess Power is given to those that worship their form of god for EVIL purposes....do some research if you really want the TRUTH,ask and it shall be given to you.
A little faith is needed,that is all!

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670

I believe that NO people should be treated as such! I never said that I condone such cruelty and to have people treated with such EVIL...neither does Jesus Christ condone such EVIL...

Yes he surely did here is the evidence as previously posted which you agreed to being correct and relatin to people of bondage.

You have previously agreed that we are discussing slaves here, as there is clear instruction to physically abuse the slave.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.


NRSV) First Timothy 6:1-6 Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus

NRSV) Exodus 21:20-21 When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

This is how much a slave was worth back in the good old days --

Leviticus 27:3-7
Male, 60+ years: 15 shekels
Female, 60+ years: 10 shekels
Male, 20-60 years: 50 shekels
Female, 20-60 years: 30 shekels
Male, 5-20 years: 20 shekels
Female, 5-20 years: 10 shekels
Male, 1 month-5 years: 5 shekels
Female, 1 month-5 years: 3 shekels

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by helen670

 

I believe that NO people should be treated as such! I never said that I condone such cruelty and to have people treated with such EVIL...neither does Jesus Christ condone such EVIL...

Yes he surely did here is the evidence as previously posted which you agreed to being correct and relatin to people of bondage.

You have previously agreed that we are discussing slaves here, as there is clear instruction to physically abuse the slave.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.


NRSV) First Timothy 6:1-6 Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus

NRSV) Exodus 21:20-21 When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

This is how much a slave was worth back in the good old days --

Leviticus 27:3-7
Male, 60+ years: 15 shekels
Female, 60+ years: 10 shekels
Male, 20-60 years: 50 shekels
Female, 20-60 years: 30 shekels
Male, 5-20 years: 20 shekels
Female, 5-20 years: 10 shekels
Male, 1 month-5 years: 5 shekels
Female, 1 month-5 years: 3 shekels

Hi Moo/
You are making me work hard, and that is a good thing!
I learn more each time you ask a question!

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

This is WHERE such translation differs!
Let's read the before and after of the Parables that Jesus Christ taught to His Apostles!
For the Coming Judgment Day!
You have to remember, that even His Apostles could not understand the parables at first!
In order to fully understand it, the whole of Chapter 12 should really be read.

Luke 12:42-48Luke 12:42-48

42And the Lord said, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his
lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43Blessed is that servant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so
doing.
44In truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he
hath.
45But if that servant say in his heart, `My lord delayeth his coming,' and
shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink and be drunken,
46the lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him,
and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him asunder and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47And that servant, who knew his lord's will and prepared not himself,
neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48But he that knew not and committed things worthy of stripes, shall be
beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required; and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the
more.

So, we have the BELIEVERS who are suppose to know the TRUTH of what the Gospel speaks...following in the footseps of Jesus Christ and His Apostles.
And we also have the Ubelievers who knew NOT the Lord or His Apostles and His teachings...be it of ignorance or whatever.

The believers should surely know that Jesus Christ taught righteousness, and therefore should also DO in their life rghteousness!
The unbelievers not knowing fully what is right as they do not follow the teachings have no real idea of how to be or behave,be it of ignorance or whatever.

When the day comes for JUDGMENT....those that said they were the Lords shall receive a harsher judgment because of what they knew beforehand,
WHILST those that were ignorant, shall receive a less severe judgment.

STRIPES is a beating or a condemnation ....What or how you behave in Life is what you will receive in the Day of Judgment!
This is the meaning of the Parable!

''But if a man be not built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, his works will be to no avail, he will be beaten with more or fewer stripes according to his/her ignorance and responsibility.''
In other words, God will be the judge of his/her works and allow a more leniant approach to the circumstances,according to His mercy...less severity out of mercifullness!


Moo/
The Old Testament is not in use by the Followers of Christianity as this no longer applies because of the New Covenant!
''"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Juda: not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took hold of their hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; for I will be merciful to their iniquities,
and their sins I will remember no more" (Jeremias 28:31-36).
Jesus Christ Himself said....
"Take, eat, this is My Body" and "Drink ye all of it; for this is My Blood of the new testament,
which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matthew 26:26-28).


And St. Paul "the letter of the Law" of the Old Testament when he tells the Corinthians,
"God has made us able ministers of the new covenant: not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life" (II Corinthians 3:6).
Here, of the SPIRIT and not of the letter...Laws of the people....(again, this in itself has another meaning,but not the right thread)

www.scribd.com...
More on the parables~Teachings of Spiritual lessons~

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670

The Old Testament is not in use by the Followers of Christianity as this no longer applies because of the New Covenant!

Well frankly Helen I find this preposterous you cannot disown the the old testament when it comes to things you don't like.

I have yet to meet an xtian that does not use the Torah to justify xtianity.

It is either all obsolete or not at all, I've heard this argument time and again.

Am I to assume that you don't actually have a bible that contains the old testament and that is why you were unaware of these passages?

Please clarify this for me what kind of bible do you actually take your belief from ? For example, do you just have a book containing nothing but the 4 gospels and the acts ?

If that is the case then we have entered a new playing field where you have no need to comment on anything relating to Judaism.

Please clarify your position, as circular reasoning appears to be creeping in here .

It is a sad indictment of xtianity, that it takes the reasoning questions of a nonbeliever to prompt a christian to study their religion "after" they have mad a great deal of claims in its' relation.

By the way, have you always been an xtian ?

reply to post by moocowman


Hi Moo/

I was baptized Greek Orthodox as a baby.
To be a Christian in involves much more then just a baptism,it is a slow process of which mistakes(sin-breaking away-missing the target)are made along the way,some more or less then others.

To answer your question ''was I always a Christian"?
Well, when someone avoids the teachings of Christ and what the Gospel preaches, then it is more like a falling away,being almost ''ignorant'' as one would say !
To be a good Christian, one must put away the Old, and do with new ''having put off the old man with his deeds, and having put on the new man, that is renewed unto knowledge after the image of Him that created him (Col. 3: 9-l0)....It's like preparing for a better life on earth and the after life...see, someone could be a Christian all their life, this alone does not mean they are guaranteed to be on good terms with God, but then you might have a person who did bad all their life and at the last moment repent of their ways(eg/like the Thief on the Right side of the Cross)
Obviously, in the end it depends on Gods Mercy...and not who you think you are!
Sayings of Wisdom of the Desert Fathers~Wise sayings of Old and New~

Those who seek humility should bear in mind the three following
things: that they are the worst of sinners,
that they are the most
despicable of all creatures since their state is an unnatural one,
and that they are even more pitiable than the demons, since they
are slaves to the demons.
You will also profit if you say this to yourself: how do I know what or how many other people's sins are, or whether they are greater than or equal to my own?
In our ignorance you and I , my soul, are worse than all men,
we are dust and ashes under their feet.
How can I not regard myself as more despicable than all other creatures, for they act in accordance with the nature they have been given, while I, owing to my innumerable sins, am in a state contrary to nature.

St. Gregory of Sinai, Philokalia, Vol. IV
SOURCE~

I own a Bible, Old and New.
The Psalms af David are read every week in Church...they are important as these are prayers of Repentance and teachings.
The Lives of the early Christians(desert Fathers)are usually read as an example for us to try and imitate them....not an easy task.
It is similar to teachings of TAO(fr Seraphim Rose)...A slow process for perfection in Christ,based on Humility and not Pride!
It's not about the 'I' and the enlightenment of the 'I', but it of the everyday struggles and sufferings thatwe go through life, that one only begins to see the true sufferings of which Christ speaks of.
Again, sorry for the long answer, but I can't give you a short answer,as it wont make sense if you do not have the meaning behind it.

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


So Helen although you claim this -

The Old Testament is not in use by the Followers of Christianity as this no longer applies because of the New Covenant!

You allude to actually using the old testament.

This would not surprise me as christianity could not claim of jesus being a messaiah spoken of by the prophets without it.
Xtianity could certainly not make any clims to jesus' heritage without pointiong to the old testament.


So it would seem that cherry picking verses is required in order to excuse the repugnant behavior of Yahwhe who is claimed to one and the same jesus.


We know that jesus specifically states that heaven would a before he would change but one letter of the law --


It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17


So here we have it straight from the horses mouth, a pretty unambiguous statement from "god", needless to say we would not expect otherwise if jesus is yahwhe an unchanging deity .

Neither can we misinterpret what this verse means, it means what it says that the law shall not be changed, and to disagree with what jesus is saying here makes a mockery of the infallibility of god.

So let's take a law made by yawhe/jesus and see what's going on with it in relation to xtianity today, bearing in mind that you claim that the old testament is no longer applicable to xtianity.


Leviticus 17:10

'And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.


So it is clear here that the consumption of blood was such a serious offense to yahwhe/jesus that it would warrant the worst penalty of all to be completely separated from god, no excuses and certainly no second chance.

The offense is is much more sever than homosexuality etc and for jews the mere notion of consuming blood was totally repugnant once you have committed this abomination there is no going back.

You however Helen claim that this law does not apply to you as it a law made by the god Yahwhe of the old testament and you no longer use the old testament.

This would all be well and good but you claim that your god is Jesus the very same character that made it quite clear that --

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17

So one doesn't have to be very smart to observe that the law in relation to the consumption of blood laid down by "God" either in the guise of Yahweh or Jesus, still stands without compromise.

There is no getting away from the fact that this law was "never" revoked by god, and not one letter of it was to be changed.

The law is quite clear that it applies not just to jews but to everyone else yet we know that xtians choose to ignore this law and somehow claim it does not apply to them.


Either the "whole" of the old testament is valid to an xtian or none of it can be, if the old testament is no longer used by an xtian then xtianity cannot claim any relationship between jesus and yahweh whatsoever.

reply to post by moocowman



You must be enjoying all of this?
What can I say,thanks for making me work...If I were to explain all the chapter,I would be here all night!
But I simply can not give an answer with the couple of lines of Scripture which you gave me....Luke 16:17
If I was to begin to say something, and not finish, how are you or anyone else to know what I am talking about?
It could only be a guess!
So here goes!
Now...The Parables of Jesus Christ~
Luke 13:17
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Law of the Prophets....John in line 16 is known to be the LAST of the Old Testament prophets!

Moo, it depends on who you look for interpreting Scripture...obviously you and I are not worthy to do this on our own!
Nor is anyone else of no prior background knowledge able to do so.
Why do you think there a many Christians claiming all sorts of imagined happenings in the Bible!
I know I am not worthy to give you an answer, but I do with the help with the links I provide....these interpretations are thousands of years old...no changes!
I cannot pick up a book of Law and expect to have prior knowledge of what it's meaning is ?
If someone does not show me, then how am I to begin to understand it?
The same goes with School....the teacher is there to teach,if she/he does not show the student the basics, then how else are they to understand?


~The Parable of the ~The unjust steward~

Lord Jesus told the parable of the unjust steward just after the parable of the prodigal son, in which God's mercy toward a sinner, how He receives and forgives every truly repentant man.
Having told about prodigal son, the Lord then addressed not His Apostles, but His disciples, with the following parable of the unjust steward.
The Evangelist Luke has handed down to us the parable of the unjust steward:
~The Unjust steward~

As for the Fullfullfilment of Old Testament Prophecies for Jesus Christ....all of the Prophets of the Old have been fullfilled in Christ Jesus!


ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670

Moo, it depends on who you look for interpreting Scripture...obviously you and I are not worthy to do this on our own!

Well Helen, of all the poor excuse for the bibles contradictions,errors and the appalling way the jesus story is superimposed upon Judaism, I have to take my hat off to you that is the worst.

We are discussing some books written by men and the final editing taking place at Nicaea. Originally these books (compiled from aramaic greek and hebrew scriptures) were only available in latin, the reason behind this ? because the masses (those that could read) were not worthy to read them and control remained in the hands of the church.

If you or I Helen are not worthy to interpret the scriptures then clearly it is abhorrent to hand them out to children.

If what you claim is true then every bible of each type, should carry a disclaimer saying that an individual reader should seek a "worthy" interpreter to tell him/her what the contents actually mean as they are not to be taken at face value.


It seems quite pointless raising logical issues with you as you to be oblivious to logic and admit you don't understand what the bibles scriptures actually mean.

It is no wonder that xtianity is in huge decline, the sheeple learned to read, and ask questions, biblical absurdities have become apparent.

There is of course, the saving grace of any xtian argument, "faith" it doesn't matter whether there is any truth as long as one believes that there is.

I'm constantly astonished that grown adults that believe the in bibles don't trouble themselves to validate the historicity of the Yahweh god.

Needless to say I find it shocking that xtians go about claiming one thing or another about that bibles if they are simply not worthy of interpreting (if that is possible) their meaning.

reply to post by ChemBreather


Thanks chembreather. One would think that Christianity is the only religion in the world. Attack someone other than christians for a while. No one seems to mention any other. Here's the link. If you want to debunk it, if it is debunkable, then at least have the honesty and guts to contact the doctor and not snipe at him. Your inability to understand something doesn't make it less true any more than believing in something makes it true. So many of you are heavily invested in cynicism, not skepticism.

Sorry ! You all are barking up the Wrong tree !!

the dude was unfortunate enough to ingest the famous 'ZOMBIE drug'....


~from a search engine page we find~

Item 1:
Scopolamine, aka the Zombie drug, as seen in the vbs.tv videos

below is often used in Columbia to drug and rob people or as a date rape drug because scopolamine is colorless and ...

Item 2:
An experience with Scopolamine. 'The Zombie-Drug' by K ... Subject orally ingested 7mg of racemically-pure scopolamine
>[the 7mg dose is 1/50 of a lethal murine dose]

the fortunate dude evidently didn't take a lethal dose of the Zombie Drug...

that's my guess why people sat on this miracle 'ressurrection'... until such time memories fade of the incident.

Helen, thanks for giving us an example how arrogance and cynicism (moocowman) can be defeated with simple patience and kindness.

For those who "detect BS", professional skeptics and others..WHAT IF? Do you EVER have a doubt in your mind?