Chemtrail Debunkers are Losing.

Originally posted by brocket99
I still don't understand how they Chemtrail debunkers ignore the skies. Maybe you guys live in different countries, or smaller cities, but it is going on.

Actually I look at the sky as a proffession

I am not saying we are being poisoned or anything conspiracy related, it could just be weather modification, but if you saw the amount of contrails in the skies today creating entire cloud cover over the city...it was happening from 8am-5:30pm, it was crazy.

Weather modification happens at much lower levels. Contrails and cirrus clouds are composed of ice crystals, and are too high up, to cause weather

If it is is weather modification I would prefer to be told, as I don't love the idea of aluminum iodide being sprayed, just because its probably not very healthy for anyone.

Its silver iodide

Lastly, I watched 2 planes spray miles long "contrails," turn around, repeat, turn around, repeat, turn around repeat. Lining up 6 contrails in a row going the same direction, than change direction and criss cross. JUST today.

I doubt they were passenger jets, and they were so high up you couldnt make the type out.

I believe thats whats known in aviation as a holding pattern. If they are so high up that you cant see, then how can you tell that they are NOT passenger planes?

I am not interested in arguing, I am not lying, I am stating exactly what I witnessed today...so I would sincerely like to know what these planes were doing? By the way, I was outside playing in a softball game....so I had plenty of time to watch it happening.

Lol, I just played softball too. And they are most probably in a holding pattern. Also where exactly are you located? I would like to check the weather balloom data for your area to check out the atmospheric conditions

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

 

So SAPS is real, now prove that chemtrails are part of this secret keeping program

As stated in the OP there are hundreds of thousands of google search hits on the word chemtrail yet you want us to believe that these chemtrails are part of a super secret, black operation??

I see too that you've not answered my questions in that thread that you've mentioned countless times in this thread.

Why not?

Why does that list of Military Industrial Complex Companies include companies like Campbellsville Apparel Company?

Campbellsville Apparel Co., Campbellsville, Ky.,* is being awarded a maximum $12,574,000.00 fir fixed price, total set aside contract for men’s undershirts. Using services are Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps.

Are you suggesting that the supply of men's undershirts are somehow related to SAPS and black operations?

Maybe these undershirts are chemtrail proof...?

hey buddy,

Okay,

SAPs are special access programs; which are operated through the Military Industrial Complex.

Not all MIC companies interact at the SAP level; many as You pointed out just suck society dry like a good parasite.

Now the MIC companies that do partake in SAPS I'm sure supply such things as mens undershirts as well, since they are greedy.

The beauty in a SAP is that the majority of hiding takes place in ****plain site**** Hide it in the open, and People won't think twice to look. I have no doubt that there are several SAPs which have many hits on Google as well; defuse the amount of correct information with a great deal of absolute disinformation.

In this manner the debate is always on; without a finality so to speak.

All I was doing was showing that it is not able to be debunked.

Did I answer Your question?

So you're comparing something that I actually saw, 2 planes crisscrossing contrails at least 6 times in an hour period to people who see a jackalope???

Next time I see it I'll fly up and get an air sample out the window for you.

How do we find out what planes were flying today and at what altitudes? Is that information available, or were they just figments of my imagination.

Maybe I've the only one who lives in a major city, and the debunkers live in podunk towns and are irrational survivilsts.

Originally posted by SantaClaus
Any chemtrailist still contributing this thread who has continued to use "I SAW IT" logic to assert their claims should be written off as a unreliable sensationalist.

Seriously, these threads are killed by logic so often it hurts to know how many stupid people are still allowed to vote in this country or any.

You guys continually spout the same idiocy and never argue the people who provide the real evidence. You avoid it because you know its true.

Before you believe all your sad, stupid bunk, please research it..

Here's an example... I could say, "I SAW A JACKELOPE LAST NIGHT!" Which of you would believe me? I could certainly dress a bunny with antlers and take a pic, but there is still NO EVIDENCE worth such an argument. Tissue samples? Fur? Droppings?

When one of you cares enough to get a pilot's license, in whatever plane that allows a 40,000 foot altitude, and legally obtains the chemical output of one of these planes by means of collecting their contrail (which would not be difficult), I will believe you. But all of you are insane, and it makes the rest of the skeptic world seem stupider for it.

if i was a chemtrail-aware pilot with my own say Lear Jet and knew the weather that day would produce longer lasting contrails i'd make some chemtrail patterns to mess with people lol. thats probablywhat they are, or the way planes have to land. a plane isn't going to fly through a prior plane's contrail, it's gong to look suspicious because theyr'e at such a high altitude that they look parallel to the ground.

Originally posted by brocket99
How do we find out what planes were flying today and at what altitudes? Is that information available, or were they just figments of my imagination.

There is a tool available on the internet that Zaphod provided once. I think its shows what planes are in the air.

reply to post by brocket99


Haha yes, I'm comparing you to someone who has seen a jackelope. I too, have seen incredible things in my life, but then again, I have a human mind, and I'm flawed. I've seen incredible sky formations of contrails based on our temperatures in any city I've lived in.. Guess what? Its pretty easy to track the commercial jets, and I circled Las Vegas 8 times before we were cleared to land. I bet we made our own odd formation..

And yeah I have lived in po-dunk towns.. But I have spent well over six months in the following cities: Phoenix, Philadelphia (6 years), NYC, Orlando, Detroit, Las Vegas and LA. I've seen wonderful displays of contrails, and even planes turning around (OMG!!!!). But the fact of the matter is, there is a ton of air traffic, and you're full of poo.

Yes, you saw a jackelope.

[edit on 8/23/09 by SantaClaus]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Thanks for explaining that to me. I appreciate you taking the time, I learned something. For some reason I connected the two and thought they were talking about chemtrails also. I guess cause that's what I'd heard of before.

[edit on 23-8-2009 by Strictsum]

I think the major communication breakdown here are the glib answers to the questions being raised. You are treating people like morons who are questioning what they actually are seeing, and you may have the qualifications but might be living in an area they are not doing this in.

You are essentially mocking me, and treating me like a fool by suggesting I couldn't tell the difference between a holding pattern and something that looks bizarre and out of the ordinary.

Is it normal for 2 passenger planes to be flying in a holding pattern for an hour at a height where you can barely make out the planes, when they are only 25 miles from the airport? The contrails were ONLY going in two directions from the same planes, and eventually combined to create a haze over the entire city, and they had been doing it from the time I woke up at 8am, when I went to work...got off at noon, planes still making contrails, and through the entirety of the softball game.

I have flown at least 500 times in my lifetime, which may be few to some, but I have never been in a holding pattern at such a seemingly high altitude when we were so close to the airport.

I have been in holding patterns before with multiple other planes, and we have never criss crossed 6 or more times, especially at an airport that NEVER has backup issues. You are purely guessing at the conditions to make it work for your argument.

Chemtrails are created by aliens from the planet Rectum9.
They are terraforming the earth ready for invasion.
Of course they only do this in between thier cropcircle forming and cattle molesting night jobs.

Sounds totaly stupid doesn't it?
Well no more stupid than people believing that goverments are purposely spraying the populations which include themselves, thier children and grandchildren.

Originally posted by brocket99
You are essentially mocking me, and treating me like a fool by suggesting I couldn't tell the difference between a holding pattern and something that looks bizarre and out of the ordinary.

Im not mocking you.....dont put words in your mouth. You asked a question and I answered it. If you dont want people to answer questions, then dont use the question mark key.

And some people cant tell tell the difference between a holding pattern and something else. If I wanted to treat you like a fool, I wouldve said it straight out.

If I didnt know better, I would say you're trying to bait me

Edit to add.....thankyou Strictum, at least you didnt ignore my post. Continue to deny ignorance buddy

[edit on 23/8/2009 by OzWeatherman]

I'm not trying to bait you at all.

I believe it is safe to say holding patterns and contrails have existed for a long time. These contrail patterns I have only seen since 2000-2001 or so. So before that were things being done differently?

I believe you when you define a contrail...but what I have witnessed is odd, and I have been seeing them often enough that in my city they happen mostly on Thursdays and Saturdays. I don't know why, but the belief is these are military jets.

Let me know how I can look up my city air traffic so I can see the flights and flight patterns and I'll let you know if I am wrong.




reply to post by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by brocket99

Let me know how I can look up my city air traffic so I can see the flights and flight patterns and I'll let you know if I am wrong.

I dont know the link to it

Zaphod and Weedwhacker might, so ask them next time they are on. All I have is the data from every weather balloon launched in the world.

Actually I will u2u Zaphod this post

reply to post by brocket99

Here are some links I just went & found.

I'm not sure how good they are for what you want, but they might get you started.

flightaware.com...

digg.com...

flightwise.com...

live.airportnetwork.com...

I think we need Weedwhacker for this....


[edit on 23-8-2009 by Sam60]

reply to post by brocket99


Ok so lets say these planes you are seeing are spraying chemtrails, where's the hard data to back up this observation? Air samples, soil samples, water samples etc.

And where's the hard data on people getting sick or effected by these chemtrails?

Here's an example:

ESPERANCE LEAD CONTAMINATION

Esperance is 721km South of Perth, Western Australia.
Generally known for it's tourism industry, Esperance has one of the deepest ports in Southern Australia.


You can find more info here:
en.wikipedia.org...


Magellan Metals use this port to load their lead mined in the area onto their ships, not long after this resumed, birds started to die:

Testing to determine the cause of mass bird deaths in the Esperance area suggests the small number of birds tested died of lead poisoning. Up to 4000 birds were estimated to have died in Esperance between early December and January, and more than 100 bird deaths have been reported in the Esperance townsite this week. Samples of these birds have been submitted for testing.

Article

This was just the beginning it seems, the article goes on to say that the Environmental Health director, Jim Dodds said the Department
had not seen any evidence to suggest the general population has been exposed to a health risk.

It is sad to see just how wrong he was.

ESPERANCE children were exposed to an invisible chemical attack on their vulnerable bodies because government agencies - who were meant to protect them - failed to heed their own advice. On the eve of today's parliamentary inquiry into lead contamination that resulted in 4000-plus birds falling dead from the sky, The Sunday Times revealed a litany of oversights that may have resulted in irreparable damage to the health of infants in the town. Adults also have been exposed to highly toxic lead and nickel dust blown from the town's port, but it is the effect on young children that is causing the most angst. Lower levels of lead exposure can affect a child's mental and physical growth.

Article

I recommend everyone read that story.


I guess why I used this story as an example is because it shows us a few telltale signs of mass poisoning.

Firstly, smaller animals like birds will be effected before humans will, why do you think they took canaries down coal mines?

Secondly, if you were in a town like this being poisoned, EVERYONE, and that literally means EVERYONE will show similar symptoms. Not just your neighbour, not just the guy at the shop you chat to. EVERY man woman and child will be showing the same symptoms.

All this from a single ground based source, nearly 15,000 people were effected in some way.


So the signs are there, unfortunately in Esperances case the signs weren't acted upon quick enough, both by the environmental department and by Magellan Metals themselves.

This is hard (and real) evidence, birds dying, thousands of people showing exact symptoms and this from lead dust at a port.

Want some examples of collecting data for airborne particulates?

Brookdale Liquid Waste Treatment Facility: Air Quality Monitoring Program Results

Wagerup Community Air Sampling Program










[edit on 23/8/09 by Chadwickus]

Like I said, I am not implying people are being poisoned, the best explanation I have read is weather control.

However, I am not a fan of inhaling aluminum particles if it is the aerosol described in a patent I posted in another thread. It's so late I don't feel like looking it up.



reply to post by Chadwickus

Originally posted by OzWeatherman





Think about this for a moment. If you were to poison a population, what would be easier?

well if we replace the word poison with ...medicate

Well the British Government has in the past!

Millions were in germ war testsMuch of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials

One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.

In another chapter, 'Large Area Coverage Trials', the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria including e.coli and bacillus globigii , which mimics anthrax. These releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius.

Sue Ellison, spokeswoman for Porton Down, said: 'Independent reports by eminent scientists have shown there was no danger to public health from these releases which were carried out to protect the public.

'The results from these trials_ will save lives, should the country or our forces face an attack by chemical and biological weapons.'

Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: 'It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.

I emailed Norman Baker MP here is his reply...

Thank you for your email dated ******** in which you write regarding your concerns over spraying in the sky. I am sorry for the delay in replying.

According to the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Ministry of Defence, despite having been actively engaged in spraying chemicals or particles from aircraft in the past, the UK Government is not presently involved in any activities in which chemicals or particles are purposefully emitted from aircraft.


The supposed ‘chemtrails’, shown in the Youtube video in which I have been mentioned and which I assume you have seen, are known as vapour trails, or, more commonly, contrails. The official explanation is that these contrails are produced by aircraft engine exhausts. The combination of high humidity and low temperatures is said to allow the formation of contrails and, depending on the temperature and the amount of moisture in the air, contrails can either evaporate quickly or persist and grow. According to the government, contrails are composed primarily of water, of which the main part is naturally present in the air; therefore they do not pose a health risk.


In the UK, the high volume of air traffic has undoubtedly led to increased cloudiness. Estimates in the scientific report ‘Aviation and the Global Atmosphere’ indicate that in 1992, contrails covered about 0.1% of the Earth’s surface, by 2050 it is predicted that this percentage will increase to 0.5%. Contrails continue to be the subject of research to help better understand both how they are formed and what affect they have on the atmosphere.


For my part, I intend to look further into this area when time allows. In the meantime, I hope this is helpful in taking matters forward.


Thank you again for writing.


Yours sincerely





Norman Baker MP

Lib Dem Shadow Transport Secretary

now the nice Norman Baker says no... so it's ok then...

I dont live my life in fear..is it really worth living in fear?

Chemtrails are not a conspiracy... I am a meteorologist and make air planes and have an intense knowledge of the upper atmosphere... they don't exist(sarcasm)

Chemtrails are real, get out and see for yourself. It isnt that hard. People who are denying this fact is either: governments have never done anything to hurt humans in the history believers, stupid, ignoring, lazy to research or are working for governments.

However, I dont believe it used to poison us, but putting # in the air isnt good for anyone or anything. I believe strongly that its a weapon and defence system. I think they are blocking the view for spy satellites, i think they are some sort of radar screen, i think they could work as a defence shield for missiles, airplanes and satellite weapons, i think they can use it to create earthquakes and crappy weather.

I believe china, russia and Nato countries all are doing this. I believe its a well known fact to MANY people, VERY MANY!

Many of these people are being told a BIG LIE, dont know what but perhaps "we are chemtrailing cause we need to save the planet, dont tell anyone cause there will be chaos".

So why do they keep it a secret. Think!
Global warming will suddenly be blamed on the military and governments. Also, they will be blamed for every sick human and the death of every living thing! This is the biggest crime against the environment in history.

Thats why I believe they are going to cover this up with the Obama solution of geo-engineering to save us from global warming. People are awakening and now they must protect themselves. Instead of being criminals they will be looked upon as the saviour of the planet..

reply to post by iamjesusphish


ENDSARCASM

Do you have anything to actually say, or are you just unable to provide anything but poorly attempted comic relief?

Reactionary. Fool. Extremist. Terrorist?

I regularly watch clouds being formed. First hand. Holding pattern? Indeed.

Im not a child so dont speak to me as if I am one. Perhaps im delusional but if I am its a shared delusion with many others buying the mass hallucination. No logic or argument can defeat what I have seen over the years - the seemingly intentional formation of clouds. Every week I observe this and any debunking is found lacking.

OZ, this is directed at you. Do commercial passenger planes, or any planes for that matter, produce dense and persistent clouds? Does the technology exist to creat clouds? Is 'geo engineering' a real science? Why does Obamas science Czar, John Holdren, consider 'geo engineering' a viable option to combat so called 'climate change'?

I wont argue with any debunkers that cloud formation isnt occuring, just as i wont waste my time debating the blueness of the ocean. Break it down for me. Why are clouds constantly being artificially created over my head, intentionally or otherwise?

If clouds arent being created, prove my eyes wrong.


[edit on 23-8-2009 by Neo_Serf]