A thoughtful counter discussion to the thread: Answers I received from my pendulum.

reply to post by calihan_12


me too.
have a good one.

reply to post by calihan_12


Like I posted in YOUR thread. If you wanna believe in divination that is your business. It is not my duty to dictate what is and isn't real. Whether you meant it for entertainment purposes only or not...there are far too many idiots in the world who would take the answer that 01001101000111 gives them and ACTUALLY believe it.

Of course...I am contradicting my statement I suppose. If people wanna be dumb and not find their own belief system they can. Just sad that so many people are so dumbed and complacent that they rely on others and pendulums to make their decisions...

Originally posted by Mr. Toodles
reply to post by calihan_12

 

Whether you meant it for entertainment purposes only or not...there are far too many idiots in the world who would take the answer that 01001101000111 gives them and ACTUALLY believe it.

See that is just the part that is hard for me to understand. How many posts would you censor on ATS according to that concern? All? And at the end of the day it seems weird to me that on a site that is riddled with different points of view on politics, religion, sociology, metaphysics, cryptozoology, paranormal, aliens, channeling, abductions, sightings, prophecies, etc. ... you are deeply worried that people may desperately believe that one thread with a pendulum that was made for the purpose of entertainment?

It is your opinion and I respect it but it is hard for me to understand what the panic is all about.

reply to post by InTrueFiction


There was never a panic. I simply voiced my opinion like the rest who voiced their opinion. Just like you voice your opinion in your post. That is what it is all about right? I think so and so is wrong. They think I am wrong, you think we are both wrong. The whole world thinks the rest of the world is wrong. All opinion. And it's what drives competition, the building blocks of our modern civilization.

Reply to post by GideonHM

You know.... We are in a world that is such that we are left to find our own answers. NOTHING is as clear cut as any of us want it to be, no matter how much ANY of us want it to be. That being said, what gives you the right to judge her? Did you some how ascend beyond the limitations we all share and ascend to some level of "Godhood" and thusly beyond any possible doubt on any subject that mankind really have yet to understand? If that is the case I call upon your abitilies to ascend into a position of leadership and lead your lesser wretched lowly brethern to a golden age. Surely one so advanced beyond the rest of us can figure out how, should be easy for one who has done the above.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Oh yea and if I remember correctly it was supposed to be yes-no-maybe.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Certainly, allow others to have their opinions.

This thread has been hijacked by hostile opinions.

I will take measures accordingly.

reply to post by InTrueFiction


Then why are you in this thread?

If you enjoy her thread, then leave the people who disagree with the techniques being used to their own opinions.

The majority of the complaints are that this thread is an attack. It is not.

Divination is an art, one that requires the individual divining to remain peaceful, and keep an open mind to all possibilities and the answers given are still a matter of perspective.

My divination simply said her interpretation was mostly inaccurate, leaning towards accuracy. Her initial post made the claim that pendulums are very accurate. I know that is a matter of opinion.

I have been attacked, ridiculed, insulted, and have had every fallacy in the book thrown at me. This further illustrates the general attitude of those who would discredit me.

If these thread hijackers were truly happy with the original thread, why attack this one?

All this post will generate is further hostility.

My original post attacked no one. The later posts were in response to the attacks brought against me.

Now people will accuse me of being a whiney baby, "If you can't take it than leave", is most likely the next avenue to be taken.

If you are certain of my failings, then why the need to convince me?

This is a standard trend. You are not capable in general of understanding the points being made. I will not further your hatred.

Thanks for all the posts! This is a grand success!

[edit on 22-8-2009 by GideonHM]

[edit on 22-8-2009 by GideonHM]

reply to post by GideonHM


I would suggest to you that if you don't want people calling your threads 'attack threads' then you should avoid referring to other members by name. Honestly, just because you disagree with her thread, apparently, just because, doesn't exactly give you free reign to call her ignorant. If she had been consciously perpetrating a hoax then that would be one thing, but it was obviously not meant to be taken seriously, unlike many other threads on this site. Perhaps if you had started your thread with a bit different a direction, say, by stating that you were simply going to attempt your own 'divination' and leave the other poster out of it, you probably would have gotten a lot less flack.

Chrono

I actually found the questions more disturbing than the answers.

It demonstrated to me, the sheer desperation and randomness some people experience in their lives.

It scared me a little! I can see both sides here - thanks for creating a counterview Gideon!

reply to post by Chronogoblin


Who cares if she thinks something swinging back and forth can tell the future?

Who cares if people believe her?

Her thread is entertaining. I read it, but since I don't believe her I haven't posted in it or commented until now.

If I was her I would start a small buisness and have people pay for her "predictions". Shes cute enough and sounds confident enough to possibly make some money.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Chronogoblin

 

Who cares if she thinks something swinging back and forth can tell the future?

Who cares if people believe her?

Her thread is entertaining. I read it, but since I don't believe her I haven't posted in it or commented until now.

If I was her I would start a small buisness and have people pay for her "predictions". Shes cute enough and sounds confident enough to possibly make some money.

Personally I expect better of ATS than threads with disclaimers about "entertainment purposes only". In the time I've been reading ATS, I've found it to be one of the stricter websites covering these topics, where dissenting views don't just get deleted, and people are encouraged to deny ignorance.

These are the things I like about it. If I wanted my dissenting views deleted, I'd go debate on the 9/11 truther blogs. If I wanted pure entertainment nonsense, I'd go to GLP or somewhere even worse.

It's unclear to me still exactly where the original thread author stands. She says things like:

"well, i am quite experienced in it, so its not like im some random person with a rock on a string spewing false answers. " (seems like a bit of an argument from authority to me, but I'll let that slide for now)

"seems dead on in accuracy most of the time"

These to me appear as a kind of contradiction to the other claims of it being pure entertainment.

If she seriously and sincerely believes that she has a special power beyond the 'random person', and that it is highly accurate, then fair enough, I don't believe, but I do try and respect peoples beliefs. However once you start throwing around the disclaimers of entertainment it becomes highly suspect to me, it reeks of a fraudulent claim.

While I expect most claims on a site like ATS to be dubious at best, and most likely bogus, I do at least expect those making them to have some conviction.

To me it's a similar kind of practice of someone like Uri Gellar, who for years claimed he had special powers, when it was obviously just simple magic tricks (He later said he didn't want to be known as a psychic anymore, pretty much confirming this).

There may well be a place for this kind of 'entertainment', but I really hope it's not ATS. I really hope that ATS continues with the way I have seen it in my time here, as somewhere people with sincere claims/beliefs can discuss them, and the critics can have a fair say in response.

I hope the original thread gets moved to BTS, or labelled with the [HOAX] tag.

reply to post by GideonHM


How do we know that the swing of the pendulum isn't influenced by the subconscious beliefs of the questioner?

That would be interesting.

reply to post by calihan_12


I never open these threads anyway, you might as well get your answers from the flip of a coin or a dice.

p.s didnt you used to be in S Club 7

Just throwing my 2 cents in here, being a big fan of divination:

I haven't actually seen the other thread (it's 5am, going to bed after this), so I'm not going to pass any judgment about that. But I do feel that the thread has derailed; my understand is that the thread is supposed to be about divination and the seriousness people do/don't take toward it, BUT a thread was cited, and drama duly ensues.

Divination is best kept as a personal thing, in my opinion, until you are sure that you understand the process enough, and have had experience living through answers. As soon as one person advises another, plants any suggestions, opens their mouth, even, there starts a huge chain of blame. "Well, Alpha Furyan said my cat wouldn't die today, so I put it in the blender!" Obviously an extreme case, but it illustrates not only the suggestibility of people, but also their willingness to blame others. And it also shows the strongest influence in divination readings: free choice. No matter what you hear in a reading, it can become completely invalid in a second because now knowing a possibility, you can either try to rule it out, or do everything you can to make it happen. I'm preaching to the choir here, but I wanted to throw that out there hoping it is a common understanding.

People who just throw out whatever they feel like and call it being psychic, giving a reading, whatever, have the potential to be very dangerous. It's sad to see they make good money off it too. And OP has a point in saying that it hurts 'real' diviners who try to sincerely help others and hopefully pay some bills. Soandso listens to me tell them their cat won't die, puts it in a blender, and calls me a fraud, gets so angry that he decides to call all of divination a fraud, and decides to tell his circle of friends. Word spreads very quickly, and though that's (again) an extreme case, who here hasn't heard of a beak in their KFC, flies in the fries, and decided maybe they shouldn't eat at a place?

I wish more people would learn to read for themselves, instead of this stigma around "psychics" and Tarot cards and whatnot. They are a tool to aid in interpretation, really, nothing special. You don't need a license or a gift from the Universe to do it, and then you have no one to blame (or thank) but yourself.

edited for typos


[edit on 8/22/2009 by Alpha Furyan]

[edit on 8/22/2009 by Alpha Furyan]

[edit on 8/22/2009 by Alpha Furyan]

[edit on 8/22/2009 by Alpha Furyan]

reply to post by GideonHM

I even gave a reading, and it said you were misinterpreting the readings!!

Thats seriously hilarious...

Originally posted by jd140
Her thread is entertaining.

I am pretty sure that was the point. The rest of your post is just sniping and I won't comment.

Chrono

reply to post by calihan_12


Why don't you just produce solid testable repeatable evidence to prove your case ?

Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by GideonHM

 

How do we know that the swing of the pendulum isn't influenced by the subconscious beliefs of the questioner?

That would be interesting.

Oh it most definitely is..


That Pendulum thread is hilarious.
I can't believe so many actually believe rubbish like that?


As soon as you ask a question that shows a hole/flaw in the logic, you are ignored or told that you don't get it or whatever.

Ah well

reply to post by dalan.


I actually believe that the sub, and unconscious minds play heavily into the reading. Much like using a lighter versus, oh for sake of discussion Harry Potter making a lick of flame appear from a wand.

The difference is the world in which we live, the tool, and what is generating the energy.

Here, the lighter generates the gas, fueled by your thumb pressing the valve, then running over the flint wheel.

Harry has to deeply focus, internally generate the energy for the fire through the wand which is his focus, and he can have the flame as well.

I see magic and technology as just different schools of thought in manipulating our environment. Thus the mind in all three parts, conscious, unconscious, and sub conscious play a role.

If you don't believe a lighter works or know what a lighter is, you won't even bother trying. Now try convincing an average person here to make a stick shoot fire! It is not going to happen.

The muscles in your arm and hand are constantly in movement, and are connected to the mind in all three states to a certain degree, anything that effects the mind can effect the reading, and heck you could be just channeling a cosmic answer that then manipulates your muscles to respond.

It gets complicated.