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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Seventh
[
Make a grown man talk out of his head ( your friend Rummy.)
Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Ok, If you can relate any or all of the science you type---- giving you the benefit that it is science.
You have little or no reference, you know to any of it.
I know it is way to simple for a dude of your knowledge and intellect to trivialize over that.
But---- here is the skinny my man.
You do not relate the science to anything in particular.
You ramble this and that in conjunction to not one specific thing that is known or suspected about the collapse.
No proof that the mumbo jumbo applies to a BOXED I BEAM a sheet of dry wall or anything in the time period, from the plane hit until the demolition, Case closed . 1492er's claimed the moon was made of Swiss cheese not their feet.
CONSPIRACY VS. SCIENCE
Conspiracy theories are put to the test. How well do they stand up against the visual simulations of professional engineers? See how science supports official stories and debunks the conspiracies below.
THE COLLAPSE OF THE BUILDINGS
Official Story: The collapse was caused by fire initially fed by the jet fuel from the planes.
Science: Using original construction blueprints, photographs, and construction data, Purdue University, along with the American Society of Civil Engineers, created a model structure of the north World Trade Center tower and a scaled 767 jetliner. To model the fuel load, Purdue launched aluminum cans filled with liquid to represent an airline wing colliding with a steel column. The final simulation showed the internal destruction of supporting columns, the disintegration of the jetliner, the atomizing of the fuel, and the resulting fires that softened the steel framework of the building and brought it down.
Conspiracy: The fire could not have gotten hot enough to melt the steel.
Science: The Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center (EMRTC) designed explosives to test the effects of burning jet fuel on steel. EMRTC used a bare steel beam because the National Institute of Standards and Technology reports that much of the any fireproofing material would have been knocked off at the moment of impact. Within two minutes of igniting the fuel, the temperature peaked just above 2,000 Fahrenheit and complete structural failure occurred in less than four minutes.
Conspiracy: The collapse was caused by controlled demolition.
Science: The film crew recorded the demolition of a college dormitory building to learn all that is involved in the process of prepping and loading. The first step was to expose the columns in order to attach explosives to them. The World Trade Center had 47 inner core columns that would have needed to be prepared. To cut the steel beams the demolition team used a shape charge, which is piece of copper apportioned to a shape-charged weapon. When an explosive is attached and ignited, the device implodes and forms a stream of liquid copper that cuts through the steel. A demolition of this scale would leave clear evidence behind, but no such traces were found at Ground Zero.
Conspiracy: Thermite, which is less traceable, was used in the controlled demolition that brought down the towers.
Science: Some truthers claimdust that some New Yorkers found after the attack shares the components of thermite. Scientists assert that even if this dust did contain thermite, it would be impossible to determine whether the thermite came from a controlled demolition or simply from the melting of the airplanes. EMRTC designed an experiment to see if thermite was a plausible option in the collapse of the towers. The thermite in the test was not even able to melt a column much smaller than those in the World Trade Center.
THE ATTACK ON THE PENTAGON
Official Story: Hijackers caused a commercial airplane to crash into the building.
Science: Purdue University created a visual simulation of the crash, which indicated the victims’ bodies would have been pushed forward in relation to one another, just as they were in the actual attack. . To further investigate, EMRTC launched a projectile into a simulated structure. They did not include wings in the projectile model because Purdue asserted they were of little consequence as the Pentagon was so heavily reinforced. The experiment created a hole in the structure the approximate size of the projectile - similar to photo evidence from the actual attack.
Conspiracy: The Pentagon was either bombed or hit by a missile.
Science: EMRTC also planted an explosive in the same model structure and compared the results to photos of the Pentagon after the crash. The explosive test demonstrated a different sort of damage. The structure blew out from the point of the explosion, causing complete destruction of floors and walls. This dispersed debris did not match the photo evidence.
Read more: channel.nationalgeographic.com...-facts#ixzz0PD1w9oFY
Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to
How did Bush see on T.V the 1st plane crash as it happened.
He didnt. He mentioned he had seen the news report of the first crash.
Originally posted by WWu777
Well they've already given examples of the kind of BS that they are going to air here:
snip snip
I don't know about you but this looks like the documentary that the History Channel put up long ago where they did the same thing, dismiss a ton of scientific evidence with a few sentences of denial. They are preying on the gullible.
Originally posted by GenRadek
Fact: Steel weakens when exposed to high temps. Steel does not need to be liquid to fail. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in an idiot or a disinfo artist.
Originally posted by evil incarnate
Originally posted by GenRadek
Fact: Steel weakens when exposed to high temps. Steel does not need to be liquid to fail. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in an idiot or a disinfo artist.
What temperature does steel begin to become soft?
What temperature were the fires burning at?
Originally posted by Joey Canoli
1 hour at 250C is enough to cause enough creep to unload the hot columns and transfer their load onto others.
It's not necessary for the truss's sagging to be the sole culprit of their being sucked in. Some inward pulling, combined with overloading does the trick.
posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Seventh
How did Bush see on T.V the 1st plane crash as it happened.
He didnt. He mentioned he had seen the news report of the first crash.
Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
How did Bush see on T.V the 1st plane crash as it happened.
He didnt. He mentioned he had seen the news report of the first crash.
Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Why was WTC7 not deemed important enough to mention at the `omission.
A sterling example of a irrelevant statement. As mentioned by another poster, the Commission wasnt created to study the engineering issues.
Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
The C.I.A. are trained to notice adverse movement on the stock exchange that could involve terrorism, terrorists favourite weapons are vehicles used as or carrying explosives, airports and planes yield fantastic results.....
Not sure where you got this load of manure.
Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
This was a major crime scene, why was it not treated at as such, again a complete disregard of normal protocols.
Completely inaccurate. The debris WAS treated as a crime scene.
Originally posted by Joey Canoli
Originally posted by evil incarnate
Originally posted by GenRadek
Fact: Steel weakens when exposed to high temps. Steel does not need to be liquid to fail. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in an idiot or a disinfo artist.
What temperature does steel begin to become soft?
What temperature were the fires burning at?
Irrelevant.
No where does NISt say that the columns lost 1/2 their strength. Creep is the culprit.
1 hour at 250C is enough to cause enough creep to unload the hot columns and transfer their load onto others. Then they get overloaded and the whole thing fails.
Originally posted by evil incarnate
Can you explain the explain the physics behind this? Can you make it fit the real world and not any of NIST's new laws of physics?
Originally posted by Joey Canoli
Yes I can.
However, I don't think you'd understand.
So read these and learn something.
Originally posted by evil incarnate
Why is it that every time I ask one of you 'debunkers' a simple question, I get the reply "i could tell you but i will not because blah blah blah?"
Hot finished carbon steel begins to lose strength at temperatures above 300°C and reduces in strength at steady rate up to 800°C. The small residual strength then reduces more gradually until the melting temperature at around 1500°C. This behaviour is similar for hot rolled reinforcing steels. For cold worked steels including reinforcement, there is a more rapid decrease of strength after 300°C (Lawson & Newman 1990). In addition to the reduction of material strength and stiffness, steel displays a significant creep phenomena at temperatures over 450°C. The phenomena of creep results in an increase of deformation (strain) with time, even if the temperature and applied stress remain unchanged (Twilt 1988).
High temperature creep is dependent on the stress level and heating rate. The occurrence of creep indicates that the stress and the temperature history have to be taken into account in estimating the strength and deformation behaviour of steel structures in fire. Including creep explicitly within analytical models, is complex. For simple design methods, it is widely accepted that the effect of creep is implicitly considered in the stress-strain-temperature relationships.
Originally posted by jprophet420
Real facts are nothing more than scientific mumbo-jumbo and smoke and mirrors, and crappy,
The bottom line to all of 911 is this:
BOTH sides have real facts and evidence. That means neither is 100% right. We need a new investigation until one side has 100% of the facts on their side. That is how science works. Denial of this is apathetic and futile. Every single person with a scientific mind understands this.
Thank you for bringing up that point good sir.