A question for atheists and theists/deists

In answer to the original question.
I am labeled an atheist, but I am truly not. I actually regard the issue with casual indifference....
However poking things with a metaphorical stick is so hard to resist and so much fun, how could I NOT push theists (and sometimes atheists) buttons ?

ive really gotten over the whole debate
on atheism vs religion
there isnt much conversion going on there
and it only resorts to name calling and insults so by the end of the day
you have no choice but to agree to disagree

DANG! This got waaaay too long-winded. Sorry, guys.

Well, I was reading everything, but got tired after a page and a half, so hopefully I did't miss something that will make me look like a a fool.

So, first off, I am a die hard athiest, or at least I am that based on my own personal definition of "die hard." By this I mean that I am very comfortable in my beliefs and am not actively searching for people to convert. An analogy I could use is a drunk man at AA (coincidently a religious group) saying "we are just drunks around other people. We're alcholholics; we usually are content with just hurting ourselves."

Which leads to something Icon sais:
Does it really hurt you, the atheist, that another person finds comfort in believing a God?

No, in fact I feel the exact opposite. I would LOVE to believe. Blind devotion to any deity would be welcome. But it just doesn't feel right. I'ts uncomfortable. And it isn't just because I haven't found the right one yet.

To answer the first questions in the post:
What would it matter to me if there was no God? Nothing. I've totally accepted it. What would it matter to me if Beelzebub walked through the door? I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Would it matter if one side got total victory? No, because again, I think it is a moot point. And how can one side get victory when we're already on the same team (with us being humans.)

Quick break to update you: My back hurts. OK, back to typing.

Icon also asked (paraphrased): "Why can't we (humans) get past the religious divide and just accept that we're all humans." Because we are very very fragile sensitive creatures who are scared of being the best ever in the galaxy, universe, whatever. And believing in a higher power gives a sense of comfort to many people.

Then the question is posed about if it would really hurt you to have someone who disagreed with you. It shouldn't, but then again, our own uncomfortableness holds us back.

OK, now onto intelligent design/evolution.
First and foremost, these are really hard to compare to each other. It would be like saying "what's better: a book of poems by Kurt Vonnegut or a telescope by Edwin Hubble?". They just can't be compared. This also leads into what some think is a double standard, which is why is it OK to teach evolution but not natrual selection. First off, go back and re-read the start of this paragraph and you'll understand. And it basically comes down to what can be proven (no comments about conspiracies, please. Hehe) and what has to be taken more ambiguous. Math, physics, geography, et al., they all can be repeated and gotten the same result. No one else has ever been able to walk on water, build a 300cubit boat that held a huge number of animals, immaculate conception, parting the red sea... you get the picture.

I have no problem with the bible. I actully own 3 of them. Maybe 2. I think I loaned one out. And I think the bible is a good story. A good, non-fiction story. If you want to teach it, put it in some comparative writing class. It is also the best way to understand the topic before you commit to anything.

Now, this last point might be just waaaay too based on my own personal view on things, but I gotta say that with the people I know who have died, I would have a very, very difficult time accepting that this was what God wanted and it was his wish. When you "don't believe," you are more apt to cope and begin to move on faster.

Thats enough now. I had another huge post on another thread and my browser ccrashed and I lost it all. woes me.

Originally posted by Icon_xof
My question for the die hard non/believers on either end is this; What does it matter if there is or isn't a God?

Would it really make a difference if somehow one side was finally awarded ultimate victory?

I believe that the main reasoning for the majority of people is simple, just in my opinion though. Apart from humanity basically being a competitive creature, here is my opinion.

If Atheists are correct then this is a huge victory for them, because that means after death there is nothing besides your body decaying. I know a few atheists who argue out of a sort of fear, because if their belief is wrong then they may burn in a Hell.

For believers however I think they mainly want to be victorious for a few reasons but subconscious and not. Let's say they are wrong, depending on the type of Christian they were and their "devoutness" then they may have a hidden sadness or fear that they didn't live their life to the fullest. They also may be upset at missing out on a promised heaven.

Now I know many many people may argue even this, that they argue for other reasons. But I believe a great majority, not everyone however, even in the back of their mind argues these points for their own reassurance and comfort. It is basically the reasoning of life, and we don't want to be wrong about it.

Sadly people will continue to fight until the sun goes out, humanity wipes itself out, or the second coming of Christ.

I hope this didn't come off as rude or argumentative, I was just responding to the questions of why each side fights about it. Good thread.

reply to post by Our Lord And Master

I know a few atheists who argue out of a sort of fear, because if their belief is wrong then they may burn in a Hell.

As I've said before, it's not atheism or Christianity, that's not exactly fair to the other thousands of religions about, after all, we all could be wrong and we all could lose out winding up in some obscure religions hell equivalent like Hades unable to pay the rivertoll or something.

It's this reason that I get quite annoyed when Christians say "If we're wrong; no biggie as it won't matter. But if you're wrong, you'll spend an eternity in hell!" - it's so presumptuous.

reply to post by Welfhard


Yeah, my apologies. I thought the question was about the feud between those two specific, but really I believe most of the arguments could all be summed up to just not wanting to be wrong about something which is practically the meaning of existence. If you get what I mean?

I just think there even needing to be an explanation is pointless because it really seems as simple to me as people being argumentative in nature. Then again, I don't have much faith in people. =)

Anyways, good thread.

reply to post by Icon_xof

Does it really hurt you, the atheist, that another person finds comfort in believing a God?

Umm, seriously, yeah it hurts a little.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bb35f22aa402.jpg[/atsimg]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 28-8-2009 by Republican08]

You lump Deist in with atheist and you must not have researched the meaning of Deism because we are not atheist and we believe in god.

We just reject organized religion as evil and controlling organizations.
www.deism.com...
moderndeism.com...

You have to watch what you find on the internet about deism because about 80% is propaganda by these same evil and controlling organizations also known as organized religion.

They post a lot of BS about deism on the internet to confuse the sheep.

But that is alright we only want people that are smart enough to not be controlled by these evil and controlling organizations.

Even though there are mistakes in this wikipedia it is close but deism grows and changes with the modern life and does not stay static in the middle ages like some religions.
en.wikipedia.org...

Deism today is not the same as in 1700s or 1800s and evolves with life.

I am Wiccan and personally I don't care who or what you believe or don't believe in. I know tons of people with all kinds of different religions from Christians to Buddhists to Atheists and I don't hold that against them and they don't hold anything against me for being Wiccan.

It all just depends on the person not the religion.

Originally posted by Icon_xof
My question for the diehard non/believers on either end is this; What does it matter if there is or isn't a God?

You can answer that by asking an atheist WHY it's so important that there isn't a God.

Would it really make a difference if somehow one side was finally awarded ultimate victory?

Indeed, because when that happens that means the Apocalypse has already happened and God has won. But if your talking about present day, then it's not particularly important.

Does it hurt you, the religious man, that another finds it more sensible to dismiss your belief?

To know that friends and even family won't make it after life in Earth? I think it's only natural to be negatively affected when people you care about don't make it with you.

So really, what does it matter?

People debate to explore their own beliefs rather than exploring the side of their opposition. IMO at least. And it matters because it can matter. Just as there's just as much reason why it shouldn't.

And ultimately, Sentient life makes life matter. Which is why it matters. See?