Barney Frank goes toe to toe at health care town hall

Originally posted by Rockpuck
No one will do a damn thing from either party because no one wants to loose the Latino vote --- something I never understood, considering they can't vote.

From a person who claims my ignorance is astounding.

(I use the term person loosely.)

Latinos can't vote?

[edit on 20-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
We both know Illegals will be covered by the new plan.

We ALL know illegals will be continue to receive free health care at our expense.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
(I use the term person loosely.)

.... coming from someone who doesn't like it when people expose him as a troll.

reply to post by kinda kurious


.......Was that a serious question? .. Do I need to go back an edit it just for you, so you don't get confused? No .. because I know you know what I mean.. you're a just a troll doing what trolls do..

Originally posted by kinda kurious

Latinos can't vote?

I know you are referring to illegals but be careful how you phrase that, I vote all the time.

Sure, illegals can't vote now, but you know Obama is working on CHANGING this.

Give it time.

Originally posted by Alxandro

Originally posted by kinda kurious

Latinos can't vote?

I know you are referring to illegals but be careful how you phrase that, I vote all the time.

Dear Alxandro
The following quote was made verbatim by another poster:

Originally posted by Rockpuck
No one will do a damn thing from either party because no one wants to loose the Latino vote --- something I never understood, considering they can't vote.

That poster went back and edited his own post. I DID NOT make that comment. I took issue with it. Please review last few posts. I, for one, certainly meant no disrespect. Someone is not playing "square."

Regards. . . KK

Originally posted by Rockpuck
.. because I know you know what I mean...

I used the quote functionality built in to ATS. I quoted the phrase from YOUR original post word for word. ( You later REVISED your post.)

There is no way I "know" what someone meant or is thinking, if you do you are a better man than I.

I'd suggest you spend a little more time clarifying your posts, but NOTHING was taken out of context. Those were YOUR words and our words are all we have here.

If you regret misphrasing something, then I invite you to apologize to those YOU may have offended with your harsh rhetoric.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

I think this could be the answer to every ones problems www.abovetopsecret.com... now I;m my own shill

That's actually a great idea. All you have to do is pretend your someone else, get the citizenship, and come back. Not hard, and very productive in the end.

reply to post by Gorman91


Except Mexicans don't have easy immigration laws at all .. in fact, unless your born in Mexico or invited there you can't be employed in Mexico. Not as easy as waltzing in, saying your Mexican, getting citizenship and waltzing back into America.

We are the only ones that tolerate that crap.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
What you said is VERY clear. So is the meaning -the woman shouldn't have said anything about 'nazi policies' because Frank is a gay jew.

Oh, I know what I said. You have incorrectly assigned a meaning and you're arguing with your own assumptions. You are WRONG. If you want to know that I meant, you can ask me. Or you can continue incorrectly assuming what I meant, putting words in my mouth and arguing with yourself. It's all the same to me.

The billions spent on illegal health care isn't a problem of simply 'falling through the cracks'. The laws DEMAND that the hospitals take care of the illegals.

Those are the existing laws, having nothing to do with this bill. This bill doesn't make any claims to change that law. Blaming the health care bill for NOT overturning existing laws is very different than saying that the bill covers illegal immigrants. That's deceitful and dishonest. In fact illegal immigrants are excluded from the provisions in this bill, as I have shown. That doesn't mean that hospitals are going to stop treating illegal immigrants. There are no such provisions in the bill.

And Barney Frank addressed this EXACT issue in his Town Hall. If you watched it, I'm not sure what you didn't understand...

Five Health Care Reform Laws

No matter how many times you try to use that word, that fact doesn't change.

Kind of like the word "troll"

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Barney Frank certainly lives up to his name.

'Having a conversation with you would be like trying to have a conversation with a dining room table.'

Originally posted by milesp
Barney Frank certainly lives up to his name.

He certainly does. I watched the entire Town Hall of his on CSPAN today and I thought he did an EXCELLENT job of answering the people's questions and dealing with a sometimes rowdy crowd.

And arguing with some people is the same as arguing with a table. Or a lamp. There's just no point in it.

reply to post by MagnumOverDrive


HIPPA was supposed to do that very thing. To be portable in job changes so that the new policy with the new company would cover the worker since the previous policy covered the worker.

HIPPA was also supposed to do many things on the healthcare provider's side as well such as a standardization of records and free exchange between various healthcare providers. Yet had no guidelines of how to do so by defining the format to standardize. You would think .pdf document of records but those can be altered so it was not a viable solution.

HIPPA did not work and essentially only placed medical information on a "need to know" basis between healthcare workers in so much that a person with highly contagious disease such as meningitis could infect the orderly pushing the patient down the hallway because the old bitty of a nurse didn't thing the orderly needed to know or she just wanted to see him become sick. Sad but very true.

HIPPA solved little and created more problems for the healthcare providers and provided different loopholes for insurance companies. Given that boondoggle, can we expect healthcare reform from the same people that brought us the banking and financial meltdowns to get it right?

The biggest problem is once this (in whichever flavor) is enacted. There will be absolute hell to correct the problems and near impossible to revert back to the way things are done now if/when it fails in the real world. It will take more than "An Act of Congress" to fix it then.

So the ramrodded, fast track fashion naturally makes me skeptical...and given the proven track record of government ran anything (the federal government ran a whorehouse into bankruptcy, people) makes me think that the whole thing is for political capitol as opposed to genuine well being of the people. A very dangerous situation indeed.

Ultimately the best litmus test that every guy uses and as crass as this sounds is: "Would you stick your penis on it or in it?" As far as the Healthcare plan goes, Congress will not replace their current care for this so the answer is "No" for them. And honestly, that is good enough for me to say no as well.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Why do you ruin my dreams of world domination?


anywho, can someone please tell me where Frank was reading from?

Originally posted by Gorman91
anywho, can someone please tell me where Frank was reading from?

He was reading from the latest version of the House Bill (as of Tuesday). Sorry, I don't know where it is online.

Try This

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I'll criticize that.

(D) enable the real-time (or near real-time) determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card

I don't want more bloody id cards. Use one, not a bazillion. And what kind of card anyway?

‘(F) provide for timely acknowledgment, response, and status reporting applicable to any electronic transaction deemed appropriate by the Secretary;

at least they'll inform you when they take you're money.

‘(H) harmonize all common data elements across administrative and clinical transaction standards

This means bringing the government's regulatory agencies closer to the local sector. This never works.

‘(4) REQUIREMENTS FOR SPECIFIC STANDARDS- The standards under this section shall be developed, adopted and enforced so as to--
1 ‘(A) clarify, refine, complete, and expand, as needed, the standards required under section 1173;
1 ‘(B) require paper versions of standardized transactions to comply with the same standards as to data content such that a fully compliant, equivalent electronic transaction can be populated from the data from a paper version;
10 ‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice;

1 ‘(D) require timely and transparent claim and denial management processes, including tracking, adjudication, and appeal processing;

2 ‘(E) require the use of a standard electronic transaction with which health care providers may quickly and efficiently enroll with a health plan to conduct the other electronic transactions provided for in this part; and
1 ‘(F) provide for other requirements relating to administrative simplification as identified by the Secretary, in consultation with stakeholders.

I really really really really don't feel confident in the government's ability to manage electronic things related to money when we're getting hacked so many times and when there's so much controversy with electronic voting machines and other things.

‘(6) IMPLEMENTATION AND ENFORCEMENT- Not later than 6 months after the date of the enactment of this section, the Secretary shall submit to the appropriate committees of Congress a plan for the implementation and enforcement, by not later than 5 years after such date of enactment, of the standards under this section. Such plan shall include--

‘(A) a process and timeframe with milestones for developing the complete set of standards;

‘(B) an expedited upgrade program for continually developing and approving additions and modifications to the standards as often as annually to improve their quality and extend their functionality to meet evolving requirements in health care;

‘(C) programs to provide incentives for, and ease the burden of, implementation for certain health care providers, with special consideration given to such providers serving rural or underserved areas and ensure coordination with standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria being adopted under the HITECH Act;

‘(D) programs to provide incentives for, and ease the burden of, health care providers who volunteer to participate in the process of setting standards for electronic transactions;
‘(E) an estimate of total funds needed to ensure timely completion of the implementation plan; and

‘(F) an enforcement process that includes timely investigation of complaints, random audits to ensure compliance, civil monetary and programmatic penalties for non-compliance consistent with existing laws and regulations, and a fair and reasonable appeals process building off of enforcement provisions under this part.

Something about that sounds iffy to me. When you give so few control electronically over something so big, well, I just don't like it.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

contradiction to federal law by proxy. If the federal government pays for emergencies for illegal aliens, money will be lost that can support this system

B) TYPE OF SERVICES-
(i) IN GENERAL- Subject to clause
(ii), payments shall be provided under this section only to grantees that utilize competent bilingual staff or competent interpreter or translation services which--

(I) if the grantee operates in a State that has statewide health care interpreter standards, meet the State standards currently in effect; or
(II) if the grantee operates in a State that does not have statewide health care interpreter standards, utilizes competent interpreters who follow the National Council on Interpreting in Health Care’s Code of Ethics and Standards of Practice.

Interpretation changes per-president. What happens when the interpretation desired by congress is different from that of the president, and what prevents people like Rob Emanuel from getting on this councils?

(ii) EXEMPTIONS- The requirements of clause
(i) shall not apply--
(I) in the case of a Medicare beneficiary who is limited English proficient (who has been informed in the beneficiary’s primary language of the availability of free interpreter and translation services) and who requests the use of family, friends, or other persons untrained in interpretation or translation and the grantee documents the request in the beneficiary’s record; and
(II) in the case of a medical emergency where the delay directly associated with obtaining a competent interpreter or translation services would jeopardize the health of the patient.
Nothing in clause (ii)(II) shall be construed to exempt emergency rooms or similar entities that regularly provide health care services in medical emergencies from having in place systems to provide competent interpreter and translation services without undue delay.

I like this somewhat, but this is basically more press 1 for English nonsense, further dividing the nation and allowing the wrong people to take advantage. What prevents racists in this position from interpreting the standards against certain groups? What prevents interpreters from denying care to elderly non English speakers to save money or something? There's so much here that can go wrong

‘(5) CHAIRMAN; VICE CHAIRMAN- The Secretary shall designate a member of the Commission, at the time of appointment of the member, as Chairman and a member as Vice Chairman for that term of appointment, except that in the case of vacancy of the Chairmanship or Vice Chairmanship, the Secretary may designate another member for the remainder of that member’s term. The Chairman shall serve as an ex officio member of the National Advisory Council of the Agency for Health Care Research and Quality under section 931(c)(3)(B) of the Public Health Service Act.

What stops people like Rob Emanuel from being appointed to these positions?

‘(7) COORDINATION- To enhance effectiveness and coordination, the Secretary is encouraged, to the greatest extent possible, to seek coordination between the Commission and the National Advisory Council of the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.

submission of dissenters

PART 2--TARGETING ENFORCEMENT

This section is too long to quote, but a quick read will show way to many ways for the system to be corrupted from forcing fines on dissenters:

‘(I) AMOUNT- Subject to subclause (II), the Secretary may impose a civil money penalty in an amount not to exceed $10,000 for each day or each instance of noncompliance (as determined appropriate by the Secretary).

To a bunch of other stuff.

This bill is still bad. Just a bureaucracy with shiny red paint. Bureaucracies can't run 300 million people. They can run 30 million in Canada and 60 million in England, but they can't run 300 million people.

Barney Frank, more like Barney Rubble, It's guys like him that were in the mess were in.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan

We ALL know illegals will be continue to receive free health care at our expense.

Seriously. Trying to use statements like this as proof that illegals won't receive care is a mark of someone that is seriously out of touch with reality:

REALITY: House bill stipulates that those "not lawfully present" may not receive subsidies to purchase insurance.

Say WHAT? You mean you're not going to give me money for something that I already get for free, and had no intention of paying for??? Racism!

There are some people whose nose is so far up Obama's butt that they would suffocate if he stopped quickly. They will never change their minds, not ever.

Bawney Fwank is a disgusting little squealing piggy.
I am surprised he doesn't have swine flu already.
How did that guy get elected?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Here is link to house draft of health bill


: energycommerce.house.gov...

Hope this helps.

[edit on 29-8-2009 by raxxon2]

[edit on 29-8-2009 by raxxon2]