Barney Frank goes toe to toe at health care town hall

Originally posted by kinda kurious
It is a MYTH.

The fact that people believe it, doesn't make it so. (religion, ghosts, ufo's etc.)

UFOs are no myth. When you include them in a list with religion and ghosts, you really are demonstrating profound ignorance.

I don't particularly like Barney Frank, but the people blaming him for single handedly destroying Fannie and Freddie and wrecking the economy have been listening to too much right wing talk radio. At least he submitted a legalization bill in the House.

Originally posted by CapsFan8
Yes he seems to be one of the more openly criminal and unrepentant members of federal mafia.

Does he think that anyone likes him, much less that he'll get reelected with the total disrespect he shows for the average person?

Because of the make-up of his district he will get re-elected. I think Rep. Frank is a buffoon, but he's a very safe buffoon. About 25 - 30% of his district probably hates him, but that percentage never won an election for anyone except Ferdinand Marcos.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by EastCoastElitist]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by EastCoastElitist]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
The rampant bias and ignorance on this forum can be appalling at times.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Please STOP spewing DISINFO.

Right back atchya, slick.

Illegals flood hospitals NOW
They already clog up the works for citizens and those here legally.
They get free medical care now, even though they aren't supposed to.

Are you living under a rock or something? It's all sitting there in front of you.

OF COURSE they'll get free care with ObamaCare.
OF COURSE we'll be forced to continue to pay tax money to support them.
It's happening now and there is nothing in ObamaCare that will prevent it from happening even more.

Are you really incapable of seeing the facts in front of you or are you just trolling (again)?

should'a happened months ago :shk:

Here .. educate yourself.
These are just a few of MANY informative articles that are available.

Examiner

The fact is everything Obama and the left have proposed thus far is convoluted at best. Not one proponent of the bill has more than the most rudimentary idea of what it contains, or more importantly, how much it will cost. Congressional Budget Office estimates on the cost of the current House bill range from 1.1 to 1.6 trillion dollars for the first ten years, and that would only cover around 13 million of the estimated 47 million who are now currently uninsured. These cost projections can't possibly include the millions of illegals who are not yet in the U.S. but will most certainly be coming here in the future if our borders are not secured and our immigration laws are not enforced. The Federal Goverment's track record on estimating costs for any program it has ever implemented has been absolutely abysmal. What faith can we have that this will be any different?

The biggest threat to our health care system right now is the tens of billions of dollars that are being spent to treat illegal immigrants. The vast majority of illegals who receive medical treatment in this country never pay a dime for the services they're provided. That forces hospitals and other health care providers to raise costs, and they pass those costs down to the rest of us. That in turn forces insurance companies to raise premiums.

It is estimated that there are currently more than 6.1 million uninsured adult illegal aliens in the U.S., and more than 700,00 uninsured children who are illegal immigrants. These numbers are provided by the non-partisan Pew Hispanic Center, and are based on census figures. Taking into account that many illegals do not take part in the census, the numbers are probably much higher. It also does not take into account the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrant families who are currently illegally enrolled in Medicaid at a cost of billions per year. In many states agencies are not even allowed to ask families if they are in the country legally when they apply for Medicaid and other services.

Federation for American Immigration Reform

According to Reuters, The Federation for American Immigration Reform estimates the cost at somewhere near 10.7 billion dollars anually, but calls that estimate conservative.

Illegal Alien Health Care Loop Hole A Topic of Debate

The cost of health care reform will be a function of the number of people eligible to participate. Since the House version of the bill lacks meaningful verification procedures, illegal aliens will be able to access taxpayer-funded subsidies for affordability credits and the public plan. (See FAIR's Legislative Analysis). In addition, Section 242(d) of the House bill allows legal immigrants (green card holders) — who are otherwise required to wait five years before becoming eligible for most federal benefits — to immediately become eligible for affordability credits as soon as they set foot in the United States. (H.R.3200, July 14, 2009). The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the average annual subsidy for individuals who access the subsidized affordability credits and/or public plan will be $4,600 per person in 2014, rising to $6,000 per person in 2019. (CBO Letter, July 17, 2009). At current admission levels, this means that American taxpayers will be subsidizing the costs of health care for both legal and illegal aliens to the tune of tens, and maybe even hundreds, of billions of dollars each year, depending upon how many of these aliens actually access the subsidized affordability credits or public plan.

Cost of Dialysis for poor, illegals - Las Vegas alone

Last weekend, the Review-Journal reported that cash-strapped UMC is providing more than $20 million a year in emergency dialysis care for uninsured, illegal immigrants.

According to spokesman Dan Davidson, Sunrise provided $110 million in uncompensated care in 2008, including nearly $1 million in emergency dialysis care for illegal immigrants for January through July this year. Davidson said that is part of the reason layoffs occurred .

Under federal law, anyone who shows up at an emergency room requesting an examination or treatment for a medical condition must be given an appropriate medical screening to determine whether there is an emergency. If there is, treatment must be provided regardless of a patient's ability to pay or their citizenship.

FREE CARE FOR ILLEGALS IS WHY THE HOSPITAL HAD TO LAY OFF AMERICANS WHO WORKED THERE

USA Today - Rising health care cost puts focus on illegals

•In Texas, where the state comptroller estimates illegal immigrants cost hospitals $1.3 billion in 2006, the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston is considering denying cancer care to such immigrants.

Fox Business

The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Pennsylvanians finds that providing education and health care to illegal aliens and their families, and incarcerating criminal illegal aliens, costs state taxpayers nearly $730 million annually.

The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Pennsylvanians reveals that taxpayers spend:

-- $ 660 million a year to educate and provide special instruction in
English to the children of illegal aliens.

-- $ 50 million a year on unreimbursed health care for illegal aliens and
their families.

-- $ 17.5 million a year to incarcerate criminal

American Hospital Assoc in Florida - 21 Billion in uncompensated health care costs - 43% from Illegals

Illegal Aliens, the health cost dimension
American Thinker - The cost of Illegal Alien Health Care
Health Care Costs for Illegals in California - $1.4 BILLION
Illegals and Free Child Birth

FAIR estimates "there are currently between 287,000 and 363,000 children born to illegal aliens each year. In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36 percent of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year."

In a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens represent 40% of the births paid for by Medicaid in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became U.S. citizens and qualified for full Medicaid services, with a cost yet to be tabulated.

The federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens. Medical service for Americans in affected communities is being severely damaged as hospitals absorb more than $200 million in unreimbursed costs. Some emergency rooms have shut down because they cannot afford to stay open. Local tax-paying Americans are either denied medical care or have to wait in long lines for service as the illegals flood the facilities. In California, the losses are calculated to be about $79 million, with $74 million in Texas, $31 million in Arizona, and $6 million in New Mexico.

These costs are staggering. The Cochise County, Arizona Health Department spends as much as 30 percent of its annual $9 million budget on illegal aliens. The Copper Queen Hospital in Bisbee, Arizona, has spent $200,000 in uncompensated services out of a net operating budget of $300,000. The University Medical Center in Tucson may lose as much as $10 million and the Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center, also in Tucson, has lost $1 million in the first quarter of fiscal 2002.

HOSPITALS SHUTTING DOWN - AMERICANS OUT OF WORK - BECAUSE OF THE COST OF GIVING FREE HEALTH CARE TO ILLEGALS


ALL paid for by the US taxpayer.
I could go on .... state by state ... but by now even you should get it.



[edit on 8/20/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by kinda kurious

It is a MYTH.

The fact that people believe it, doesn't make it so. (religion, ghosts, ufo's etc.)

Riiight, because MSNBC or CNN told you it was? I'm amazed at the how the MSM propaganda has really taken effect on many people. They are spewing the exact same talking points as the media and white house.

How can the idea of illegal immigrants getting universal health care here be a myth? Do you keep up with current events? Have you been living in a cave? Why in the world would you beleive that?

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Wimbly]

Originally posted by Gorman91

But personally I don't see a problem because I'm a Catholic right wing nut job and dare to believe all people deserve protection of their lives.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by Gorman91]

Personally I am a nut Latino woman that is also a born American citizen from Born American parents that is also a none organized religion believer that also believe that Illegals have no business dipping into my tax payer dollars.

How about that.

The only ones supporting slavery in this nation is the same for the people elected whores in Washington that careless for anybody but themselves that is why our borders are wide open even with the so call war on terror.

How about that.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by marg6043]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by FlyersFan


As we both know and you’ve stated before, I could find an equal number of articles/ sources to make my case. I will respond with my opinion of the matter.

The Problem of Immigration
I believe the problem with immigration and with illegal aliens burdening our already stressed Healthcare system would be solved if those who hire them were prosecuted under EXISTING laws. They are the source of the problem. If there were no employers willing to skirt the law and hire illegals then there would not be the problem of so many crossing the borders for employment and thereby free healthcare via our indigent hospital system.

Complicity among Religious Organizations
It is no secret the Catholic church has openly defied US laws by inviting and enticing illegal aliens and providing safe haven. The church is all about a “one-world" religion and eager to fill it’s congregation by any means possible.

Perhaps if the Catholic Church is so anxious to have these people here, why don't they put their money where their mouth is? Let the church pay to educate them in their schools, pay for the healthcare, housing, food, and other needs which arise. It is easy for them to be so self-righteous because they stand to gain membership and increased donations, while the American people will subsidize it. There seems to be no lack of funds within the RCC as evidenced by upwards of $600 million dollars (recent numbers) awarded to victims of priest abuse.

By your own statements and data, the problem currently exists and is UNRELATED to the reform proposal in the works. I suggest you vent some outrage over the prior administration's policies.

Bottom line, curbing illegal immigration will serve to mitigate the undo strain placed on the Healthcare system. Don't confuse the two issues.

Further, I’d sincerely appreciate it if you’d refrain from childish name-calling “slick / troll.”

Lastly, your desire to see me banned would require that I extremely violate T&C of this forum. I strive not to do that. However, stating my views which happen to oppose yours does not seem to be reason enough to call for my banishment.

Perhaps you should review the thread in your signature regarding possessing a spine.


[edit on 20-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by Schaden

Originally posted by kinda kurious
It is a MYTH.

The fact that people believe it, doesn't make it so. (religion, ghosts, ufo's etc.)

UFOs are no myth. When you include them in a list with religion and ghosts, you really are demonstrating profound ignorance.

You are right. I should have used the term aliens. (of the non-terrestrial variety.) I apologize. I stand corrected. My bad, sorry.

I'm not going to get into the off topic sidetrack in this thread, but the way Barney Frank responded to that crazy woman with the Nazi question was WONDERFUL! I LOVE this about Barney Frank. He is not afraid to speak his mind and say what needs to be said. That woman was a NUT. Asking a gay, Jewish man, "Why do you support these Nazi policies"? ??? What? What an idiot! She deserved everything she got from Frank and MORE!

I LOVE the fact that there's one politician out there who will tell you exactly what he thinks! It's refreshing and we need more of it. I'm not surprised that people against his politics think he should be more politically correct. What a load of hypocrisy!

As far as FOX's coverage, it was a lot more edited than what I saw. They didn't even show the crazy woman asking the question! I don't know if it's been posted:

Originally posted by kinda kurious
As we both know and you’ve stated before, I could find an equal number of articles/ sources to make my case.

Find me a few credible articles that state that the Illegals do not receive free health care.

It is no secret the Catholic church has openly defied US laws by inviting and enticing illegal aliens and providing safe haven.

Sure. The ones that say that in this country are morons and should be held accountable. (and Ratzinger, who isn't in this country, is a moron as well for spewing his eurocentric anti-americanisms that we should have wide open borders) But as much as your posting history shows that you'd like to blame the Catholic Church for every ill on the planet, they are NOT where the problem is.

awarded to victims of priest abuse.

Oh lord ...

By your own statements and data, the problem currently exists and is UNRELATED to the reform proposal in the works.

Wrong. It exists. ObamaCare does NOTHING to delete the laws that are in place making it happen. Show me EXACTLY where in ObamaCare this law will be overturned and that the overturn will be enforced -

The federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens

Further, I’d sincerely appreciate it if you’d refrain from childish name-calling “slick / troll.”

As long as you keep trolling I'll call you out on it. How about YOU refrain from trolling .. you know ... posting pictures of piers at the beach and telling me to take long walks on them..... continual childish comments about having to get out hip waders or shovels to read what a response from me will be ... and then there is "I suggest the OP is a girl in the same sense that Mt. Everest is a molehill" ... unending etc etc etc Your request is absolutely comical and pathetic. Clean up your own house before you start pointing out what may or may not be wrong with others - junior. :shk:



[edit on 8/20/2009 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Asking a gay, Jewish man, "Why do you support these Nazi policies"? ??? What? What an idiot! She deserved everything she got from Frank and MORE!

So by your standards a person can't point out that the policies smack of 1939 Germany simply because it may hurt the feelings of the other person? That's insane.

Kinda goes along the same thought lines that people who can't stand Obama's policies MUST be closet racists.



[edit on 8/20/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by kinda kurious


Didn't they also go by that mentality for....

The world being round
The crusades being over the economy, not religion
Women being equal to men
Children labor being bad
blacks being equal to whites
immigrants being normal people
test tube babies coming out normal and not daemons or other things
the earth going around the sun
planets with moons
the ability to go to the moon
other planets with earth-like conditions
so much more.

Oh boy, myths sure as hell must never be possibly having any truth to them.

reply to post by marg6043


What I want to do only gives universal health care coverage as we can afford it, never raising taxes. If we can't afford it, we don't give it. We first find cost cutters elsewhere and then go into helping expand health care. Never raising taxes.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Find me a few credible articles that state that the Illegals do not receive free health care.

I'll get you started:

Pants on Fire

The section says nothing about "non-US citizens" or immigrants, legal or otherwise. In fact, the legislation specifically states that "undocumented aliens" will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance, in Section 246 on page 143.

Myths on Health Insurance Bill

MYTH 4: Health care reform legislation will cover undocumented immigrants

CLAIM: Under health care reform, you will be denied care, and it will be given to undocumented immigrants instead.
...
REALITY: House bill stipulates that those "not lawfully present" may not receive subsidies to purchase insurance. Under the "Individual Affordability Credits" section of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009...
Senate HELP bill excludes those "not lawfully present" from federal funding. Under the "Making Coverage Affordable" section of the Affordable Health Choices Act

Funny that you can't provide "a few credible sources" for the ridiculous claims you make about Obama's name, religion and citizenship, but demand the same of others. :shk:

Originally posted by FlyersFan
So by your standards a person can't point out that the policies smack of 1939 Germany simply because it may hurt the feelings of the other person?

I'm done trying to straighten out the twisted words you put in my mouth just to start an argument. If you want to debate what I actually said, try again.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The bill can do what it wants. Federal law demands caring for anyone in serious need or emergency. And illegal immigrants usually take the hard labor and low safety jobs. 20 million people being treated like labor slaves are going to get injured and have emergencies.

Again ... show where THIS is cancelled and how, exactly, they will enforce NO ILLEGALS - The federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Funny that you can't provide "a few credible sources" for the ridiculous claims you make about Obama's name, religion and citizenship, but demand the same of others. :shk:

1 - I have provided many credible sources.
2 - They aren't 'claims' .. they are facts.
3 - They aren't ridiculous. It's just the truth.
4 - :shk: back atchya. Denial much?

I'm done trying to straighten out the twisted words you put in my mouth

I twisted nothing. YOU strongly implied the woman shouldn't have said what she said about Nazi policies because Frank is a gay jew. That's what you said. My response is that if a policy smacks of 1939 Germany then it's INSANE to refrain from saying so simply because the other person is a gay jew. Absolutely insane.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I twisted nothing. YOU strongly implied the woman shouldn't have said what she said about Nazi policies because Frank is a gay jew.

Again, when you want to debate what I actually SAID, not what you incorrectly THINK I implied, let me know.

Girls, girls calm down

This how the illegal immigrants will fall between the cracks and get their health care free.

In my Island in PR is universal health care.

My sister works as a radiologist in one of the major hospitals.

How they deal with illegal immigrants as per hospital "mouth to mouth" policies?

Very simple, as long as the person have a "SS that looks legal and a name to go with it, no questions are ask.

They are filed as usual with the rest.

Yes I had a conversation with my sister about this last week, yes she is very mad about how things are run in PR with illegals and yes she knows that it drains the system and her tax payer dollars and yes the Island is banckrupt since the universal health car started, but hey things were bad even before.

But you can not stop the loopholes

Originally posted by marg6043
Very simple, as long as the person have a "SS that looks legal and a name to go with it, no questions are ask.

Yes, they are falling through the cracks now. But the health care bill itself isn't going to automatically cover illegal immigrants or provide for them, as the lies would have us believe.

And I'm calm.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Again, when you want to debate what I actually SAID, not what you incorrectly THINK I implied, let me know.

This is EXACTLY what you said -

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Asking a gay, Jewish man, "Why do you support these Nazi policies"? ??? What? What an idiot! She deserved everything she got from Frank and MORE!

YOU brought up that he was gay and jewish. What you said is VERY clear. So is the meaning -the woman shouldn't have said anything about 'nazi policies' because Frank is a gay jew.

The woman sees the same tactics that were used in 1939 Germany.
She has a right to bring that up ... no matter what the sexual orientation
or religious/ethnic heritage the other person has/is from.

Originally posted by marg6043
This how the illegal immigrants will fall between the cracks and get their health care free.

The billions spent on illegal health care isn't a problem of simply 'falling through the cracks'. The laws DEMAND that the hospitals take care of the illegals.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
the health care bill itself isn't going to automatically cover illegal immigrants or provide for them,

It does because it doesn't overturn the laws that are in place that demand illegals get health care. Therefore - under ObamaCare, Illegals will indeed get free health care.

as the lies would have us believe.

Facts aren't lies.
No matter how many times you try to use that word, that fact doesn't change.

reply to post by FlyersFan


There is no debating the Illegal burden on Health Care.. it's a fact, it's not a myth. For anyone to assume the new plan will somehow fix the problem is ignorance to an extreme..

It's very sad the issue of Illegal immigration has all but disappeared .. in an era where we have record unemployment and illegal slave labor is still consuming jobs Americans would otherwise be doing is disgusting.

reply to post by kinda kurious

The Problem of Immigration

The problem with Illegal Immigration is that the Republican leaders love the corporate kick backs of slave labor. And that Democrats and other Bleeding Heart Liberals don't want to offend anyone. I say put em all on a train and dump them in Canada.

It is no secret the Catholic church has openly defied US laws by inviting and enticing illegal aliens and providing safe haven.

Really nothing to respond.. your trollish behavior is astounding.. your ignorance is the only thing that seems to surpass your trolling abilities.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


We both know Illegals will be covered by the new plan.

But honestly if I was an illegal alien I wouldn't even want to insurance plan. You have to pay for that. These low life scum would continue to abuse the hospital system and receive CHEAPER care than those on the subsidized government plans!

No one will do a damn thing from either party because no one wants to loose the (illegal Latino vote --- something I never understood, considering they can't vote.


[edit on 8/20/2009 by Rockpuck]

This post was edited so children could better understand.

[edit on 8/20/2009 by Rockpuck]